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Birmingham Steam Buses 1824-1910.

Thanks again Wendy, I don't know of any company tie up between the two companys and Maudsleys ended up as part of the American Rockwell organisation. In trying to find out a bit more I have found that some sources refer to the the firm as Maudsley Motor Co and others to the Maudslay Motor Co., confusing isn't it. (Must admit, I always thought it was Maudsley with an E so am amending all my previous posts). I suddenly remembered the washers as being 'The Britannia', which was confirmed on Smith Brothers & Webb's website.
 
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it is strange but when Phineas Thylacine BA(VanDiemens) step out for, ahem, some fresh air (more likely a cig, a Gin and to "study" the Radio Times with marilyn munroe ho ho ho) the previous produktivity of the class is somewhat affected - they decide to welcome back their inspiration in the traditional manner (apart from "Motorman" Mike who is skipping as if in luv
 
Good evening, Ladies and Gentlemen, and thanks for your recent contributions. :)

Getting back to the good Dr Church for a moment, I am about to post a fairly detailed chronology of this worthy Brummie's steam carriage venture. It's quite long, but provides a reasonable summary of our researches to date (at least of WHC's "steam road carriage" years), and will hopefully be the starting point for further discoveries.
 
Chronology of William H Church and the LBSC 1829-1837.

2010-07-17 12:39:24
[This chronology is based on Alec Jenson's Birmingham Transport (Walsall: Birmingham Transport Historical Group, 1978), with corrections and additions from the numerous discoveries of the BSB "Class of 2010" ;). Further corrections, additions and comments are welcome: biographical information about any of the LBSC directors (some of whom are quite well known) will be very useful. The dates of actual movements of "Church 1" are in bold blue, and of steam drag "Pioneer" in bold green. Sorry it's so long :(, but it's useful to keep a detailed summary of our WHC knowledge all in one place.]

1829: Dr William H Church (WHC) registers a patent for "improvements in steam engines".

9 February 1832: WHC registers his first patent for a steam road locomotive.

25 May 1832: The London and Birmingham Steam Carriage Co (LBSC) issues a prospectus, announcing a capital of £200,000 (divided into 10,000 £20 shares). Provisional directors are: John Rotton, Joshua Scholefield, Henry Van Wart (1784-1873), Joseph Stock and S A Goddard. The Birmingham bankers of LBSC are Rottons and Scholefields. The prospectus outlines the disadvantages of railways [which as yet do not exist in Birmingham], and extols the virtues of the WHC steam road carriage as compared with both railways and horse-drawn coaches. It quotes market research (as published by the directors of the London and Birmingham Railway, which will not be opened until 1838) showing that 480,000 passengers and 138,000 tons of goods are moved annually between London and Birmingham, at an expense of £1,644,000. It is reported that a parliamentary Act of Incorporation will be applied for. The public are offered 2,500 shares, and the first Annual General Meeting (AGM) is announced for 5 February 1833. [There is no record of it.].

5 February 1833: Presumed first AGM of LBSC.

26 October 1833: The Mechanics' Magazine, Museum, Register, Journal and Gazette (MMMRJG) publishes the so-called "Lane" engraving as a frontispiece, immediately followed by a letter from "Impartial" praising WHC's steam carriage and criticising the technical press for ignoring it.

31 October 1833: Berrow's Worcester Journal (BWJ) reports: "Dr Church's steam-carriage, capable of carrying fifty passengers, inside and out, is complete, and will shortly be on the road from Birmingham. The engine and carriage are constructed together. The boiler consists of a series of double tubes, one within the other, placed in a vertical position round a circular fire-place, and communicating with it. The heated air passes through these tubes, which are everywhere surrounded with water. These tubes are in the form of syphons, to counteract the injurious effects of unequal expansion."

2 November 1833: MMMRJG publishes a letter from "J Collins for Josiah Allen" (of Birmingham) correcting the attribution of the so-called "Lane" engraving to Josiah Allen.

9 November 1833: MMMRJG publishes a letter from William Baddeley entitled "Steamers versus Schemers", which severely criticises "Impartial" and the WHC steam carriage.

16 November 1833: MMMRJG publishes a letter from "Junius Redivivus" (William Bridges Adams), also highly critical of the WHC steamer.

21 April 1834: The directors of LBSC announce in the press that the WHC carriage is in working order, and may be inspected by investors "and their friends" at the works at Bordesley. Those who inspect the vehicle criticise the size and power of the steamer, and the directors announce plans for a 50 hp steam drag designed to tow a 30-seat omnibus. [This is shortly before John Smith launches the first Birmingham horse bus service on 5 May 1834].

25 April 1834: The WHC carriage is operated for the first time in Green Lanes, Small Heath. Steering proves difficult, and the "hind part" of the carriage strikes the footpath, damaging the valve gear and bringing the trial to an end. Despite these mishaps, Aris's Birmingham Gazette (ABG) reports: "The carriage presents a splendid appearance and the mechanism is beautiful and does great credit to the skill and ingenuity of its talented projector". BWJ reports [8 May 1834, quoting ABG]: "Dr Church's steam carriage was started for the first time on Friday evening, passing from the manufactory along the Green Lanes (a part of which had recently been covered with loose stones, calculated to retard its progress). It proceeded at a very rapid rate (say from fifteen to twenty mile per hour) with a great number of persons (upwards of forty) upon it for a considerable distance; when, in turning short about on the road, the hind part struck the footpath, and broke a small appendage to one of the valves. It was then deemed advisable not to work the machinery further for fear of mischief."

1 May 1834: The Birmingham Advertiser (BA) publishes a letter from "R B", which at great length employs convoluted logic, questionable physics and dodgy mathematics to dismiss the practicability of the WHC steamer. The author cites a 1759 paper on water wheels by engineer and physicist John Smeaton (1724-1792) to justify his calculations. He concludes by warning of the danger of a collision between the WHC carriage and a building, in which case the massive and over-powered vehicle would "carry everything before it".

8 May 1834: WHC replies to "R B", ridiculing his "false statements", "palpable absurdities" and "gross ignorance".

June (?) 1834: Presumed second AGM of LBSC.

12 June 1834: BWJ reports (quoting the Birmingham Journal): "Dr Church's steam carriage has made several experimental trips upon the road recently. The last trial, which was on Thursday [5 June 1834], was most satisfactory in every respect. The carriage passed along Green Lanes, through the Small Heath Gate, and down the Coventry Road, in good style: and turned round and came back to the manufactory in the same manner, amidst the cheers of the spectators, and the huzzas of the workmen."

September 1834: Jenson states: "A lithograph published ... at one shilling per copy, which has been reproduced on a number of occasions, shows the coach constructed to seat eight inside and twenty-two outside passengers ... It appears to be a heavy and somewhat clumsy machine on three wheels, the single leading wheel being the steering wheel. The driver or steersman who guides the coach by means of a vertical cranked handle is seated in a position about halfway between the lower and upper decks. There is a row of four open seats in front of the main body of the coach protected by a dashboard embellished with the Royal Coat of Arms surrounded by scroll work and the leading wheel is covered with a spherical guard similarly covered with decorations." [This sounds like the Josiah Allen "Mark 2" engraving. Jenson actually dates this to 1835, but the sequence of his account suggests that this is a typo for "1834". We know that the "Mark 1" was published in October 1833 if not earlier.]

4 October 1834: the WHC steamer is trialled on the London Road as far as "Stone Bridge". ABG [6 October 1834] reports: "Mr Harrison, who had charge of it, after making two or three runs in the immediate vicinity of the works, took it out through the Small Heath Gate at a rapid rate. It ascended the hills with perfect ease at a rate of full 10 mph — in fact they appeared to offer no impediment and Mr Harrison is of the opinion that no hills to be found on the turnpike roads should oppose any considerable resistance to its progress. On its return, an accident happened to one of its gauge cocks which rendered it necessary to blow off steam and take out the fire, further than which it was not of the least importance. There is not a doubt in the minds of those who superintended and assisted in the trial that it will take heavy loads at great speed upon any ordinary turnpike roads. Not the slightest inconvenience was experienced from steam or smoke, and many horses were passed on the road without occasioning any alarm." BWJ reports [9 October 1834]: "Dr Church's steam-carriage made a trip in the neighbourhood of Birmingham last week; it ascended hills at the rate of ten miles an hour. On its return an accident occurred to one of the guage [sic] cocks ... We scarcely ever hear of these experimental trips, without the occurrence of some accident, and we very much doubt whether engines will ever be rendered so perfect as to bear the wear and tear of common roads." Another report states: "The vehicle has seats crossways holding five passengers each and in the centre a large square chamber containing boiler and engine, the former having vertical tubes round a fire blown by a fan. Two eight feet high driving wheels with six inch wide tyres are fitted, partly enclosed in the engine chamber. No boiler, funnel or crank are exposed to view. It is tremendously heavy and has the serious defect of having only three wheels which makes it liable to turn over."

17 October 1834: LBSC holds a general meeting at Radenhurst's "New Royal" hotel, chaired by Joseph Phipson. Amongst other resolutions, the shareholders instruct the directors to "build engines to run for hire and for railways", and to prepare a deed of settlement for signature, based on the present LBSC rules and regulations. The following provisional directors are elected directors for the current year: John Rotton, Joshua Scholefield M P, Henry Van Wart, Joseph Phipson, E V Blyth, B Redfern, S A Goddard. The AGM is announced for 3 June 1835. [It will actually be held on 1 July 1835].

31 October 1834: the WHC steam drag makes several successful trips from the factory to the "Swan" inn at Yardley and back (a distance of about six miles) in thirty minutes. BA [6 November 1834] reports that its speed up the long hill towards Yardley is 15 mph.

3 November 1834: An "indenture or deed of settlement" is signed, legally establishing LBSC.

20 November 1834: LBSC directors announce in BA their intention to offer the remaining shares to a limited number of coach proprietors and carriers. At the same time a manager or superintendent of works is sought, to take charge of the "manufactory" under WHC and Harrison. WHC at this time is designated "Engineer to LBSC".

16 March 1835: WHC is granted a patent for improvements to his steam road locomotive.

27 April 1835: LBSC holds a general meeting at Radenhurst's "New Royal" hotel, chaired by Joshua Scholefield M P. The shareholders make several "motherhood" resolutions, and a few more practical ones including: [1] "that Dr Church's method of laying a granite track is extremely valuable and would be of benefit to the company"; [2] "that the directors be requested to build as soon as possible the necessary complement of engines for establishing regular lines of coaches from Birmingham to London"; [3] "that the remaining shares be allotted to the present shareholders, coach proprietors, innkeepers and others interested in establishments on the line of road".

5 May 1835: The London Gazette (LG) reports that a "fiat of bankruptcy" has been issued against "William Church, of the Parish of Aston, near Birmingham, in the County of Warwick, Civil Engineer, Dealer and Chapman".

14 May 1835: BWJ reports that the directors of LBSC "have given notice that the whole of the shares are appropriated with the exception of those reserved, and which it is intended not to allot under a premium of £4 per share".

25 June 1835: BWJ reports: "Several short excursions in the neighbourhood of Birmingham, have recently been made by the London and Birmingham Steam Carriage Company's drag, the "Pioneer", the first constructed by Dr Church upon that principle. In some parts of the road, the speed of the engine approached thirty-five miles per hour. We greatly doubt whether engines will ever be so constructed as to stand the wear and tear of common roads."

1 July 1835: At the third AGM of LBSC, chaired by Henry Van Wart, ten directors are elected. To ensure punctual attendance, it is resolved that £2 be divided among those directors present at weekly board meetings when the chair is taken.

28 June 1836: The fourth and last AGM of LBSC is held. The board has been increased to twelve directors under the chairmanship of Jonathan Worthington of Stourport. The shareholders instruct the directors to proceed "quietly and cautiously in building one carriage" and to institute a service between Birmingham and London. At this time the LBSC works are at Bordesley Green. BWJ [7 July 1836] reports: "The annual general meeting of the proprietors in the London and Birmingham Steam Carriage Company was held on Tuesday last ... The report of the directors announced that an engine in every way efficient had been completed, and there remained no difficulty in building a number more like it, in a short time; it also stated that the proprietors were in a good position for realizing all their expectations as to working steam carriages on common roads at a good profit. The share-holders were unanimous in their determination to prosecute their undertaking with vigour."

8 August 1836: The London Journal of Arts and Sciences and Repertory of Patent Inventions publishes an article describing and praising the new WHC steam drag, designed to haul "trains of carriages" on the London–Birmingham road.

17 December 1836: A "fiat of bankruptcy" is issued against "Joseph Phipson, of Birmingham, in the County of Warwick, Button and Military Ornament Manufacturer, Dealer and Chapman". LG [13 January 1837], in an announcement converning this bankruptcy, refers to Phipson's "shares and interest" in LBSC.

March 1837: BWJ reports [6 April 1837]: "Steam Coach. — A few days since Dr Church's steam coach went from Birmingham to Coventry, with an omnibus attached to it loaded with passengers, at the rate of twelve miles per hour. It ran up the hills at a rate of eight miles an hour. It returned with twenty-three passengers (three ladies) without any accident."

31 March 1837: BWJ reports [6 April 1837]: "On Friday [Dr Church's steam coach] proceeded to Meriden and back, also with an omnibus and passengers, and without accident. It was expected to arrive at this city [Worcester] on Monday last [3 April 1837]; but the inhabitants having been hoaxed some time since respecting this steamer, were not disposed to look after it on Monday: and they determined wisely, for no steam coach made its appearance."

24 April 1837: BWJ reports [27 April 1837]: "Dr Church's Steam Carriage. — This long-expected visiter [sic] actually arrived in this city [Worcester] on Monday last, about three o'clock in the afternoon, from Birmingham, having performed some part of the journey at the rate of a mile in three minutes [20 mph]. It came into the city in grand style, well loaded with passengers, two of whom played on bugles 'See the Conquering Hero Comes!' It met with a slight accident in Foregate Street, and was, in consequence conveyed by horses to the yard of Messrs Reeves and Son, coach-builders, where it remained for the night. Yesterday [26 April 1837] it proceeded down Foregate Street and High Street into Sidbury, followed by crowds of spectators, and afterwards returned to Birmingham. It is expected to arrive here again to-morrow [sic] [28 April 1837], and will probably go on to Cheltenham. Several horses we understand were much alarmed at it on Monday; and several gentlemen expressed a wish that the steam boiler would burst and break the carriage to atoms."

11 May 1837: The aptly-named Mr Kettle announces the end of LBSC: "Notice is hereby given that the company or copartnership lately subsisting called the London and Birmingham Steam Carriage Co under or by virtue of a certain indenture or deed of settlement bearing the date of 3 November 1834 was this day dissolved by and with the consent and approbation of the requisite number of directors testified by a writing signed by them and by and with the consent and approbation of the requisite number of proprietors in the company or copartnership pursuant to a clause in that behalf contained in the said indenture or deed of settlement. By order of the board of directors. W R Kettle secretary. Birmingham 11 May 1837." [This rather sad notice is published in ABG (15 May 1837) and the London Gazette (19 May 1837).]
 
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Birmingham: a Different Place!

In all our researches, we should keep in mind the historical context. In the early 1830s Birmingham was a very different place from the great city it later became. The first Member of Parliament was not elected until after the Reform Act (1832). Until 1838 Birmingham had no municipal government, and was managed under antiquated (and curious) feudal arrangements. And the population of Birmingham in 1831 is estimated at about 147,000 (though in a period of very rapid growth). See the chart below (courtesy of Wikipedia) for the history of Birmingham's population 1500-2000.
 
Who Was William Baddeley?

I don't know much about him, but William Baddeley, the writer of the "Steamers or Schemers" anti-Church letter in 1833, appears to have been a London-based engineer and inventor. He was a regular correspondent of the technical press in the 1830s, being especially interested in fire-fighting and associated equipment. We learn from Grace's Guide that he proposed an "exercising carriage" (an early bicycle) in 1839, and in 1851 he won a prize for his "portable farmer's fire engine" at the Great Exhibition.
 
Aidan said:
... when Phineas Thylacine BA (Van Diemens) step out for, ahem, some fresh air (more likely a cig, a Gin and to "study" the Radio Times with marilyn munroe ho ho ho) the previous produktivity of the class is somewhat affected - they decide to welcome back their inspiration in the traditional manner (apart from "Motorman" Mike who is skipping as if in luv).
Click to expand...

Molesworth: Phineas Thylacine sees all and hears all, and it's been many a decade since he fell for the "loaded door" jape. :1311:

Mike and Wendy: Behave yourselves (or get a room! ;))
 
motorman-mike said:
Thanks again Wendy, I don't know of any company tie up between the two companys and Maudsleys ended up as part of the American Rockwell organisation. In trying to find out a bit more I have found that some sources refer to the the firm as Maudsley Motor Co and others to the Maudslay Motor Co., confusing isn't it. (Must admit, I always thought it was Maudsley with an E so am ammending all my previous posts). I suddenly remembered the washers as being 'The Britannia', which was confirmed on Smith Brothers & Webb's website.
Click to expand...
This is so interesting there has been a discussion on Maudslay/Maudsley before my Dad always said he was going to Maudsley's but he was a brummy.....lol Yes the works was called the Britannia works. Sorry going off thread again. I will post on the Smith Bro's and Webb thread.

Sorry sir it won't happen again.
 
Steam Buses the "Second Generation".

Here's a new branch of the BSB topic that we haven't discussed much so far and might prove interesting. The second generation of steam buses (1896 - 1918-ish) didn't come to Birmingham, as far as I'm aware, because the local authorities wouldn't permit them. Thomas Clarkson [who?] proposed to the Birmingham authorities a service of steam buses in July 1908, but he was turned down by the Watch Committee (with the support of Hagley Road residents). [Who were the Watch Committee? And can we find out anything more about Clarkson's proposal?]

There were no motor buses in the city at this time, as Midland Red had gone back to horse buses only in October 1907, and the Corporation didn't have the power to operate motor buses at the time. But steam buses were definitely used elsewhere in the Midlands: in Shropshire, Staffordshire and Warwickshire at least.

So here's the assignment: HOW CLOSE TO THE CITY OF BRUM DID THE "SECOND GENERATION" STEAM BUSES COME? The question can be answered very broadly: so we can have lots of lovely pictures of steam buses in neigbouring counties (and even further afield), but it would be nice to end up with a numerical answer to the question. So every picture must include the distance (or a best estimate thereof) from Brum. Of course the answer might be "zero" if someone can establish that these steam buses were actually used in the city somewhere (even as demonstators or on loan or trial).

Let the research begin! :grinsmile:
 
:1024:...See, the conqu'ring hero comes!...:1024:

Perusing back issues of Berrow's Worcester Journal (as I am wont) I clipped the following which I think fills some gaps in the most useful index above and finally provides vindication for the veracity of Church:

* 12 Jun 34 - Coventry Road Trial to cheers of spectators and huzzas of the workforce

* 25 Jun 35 - Excursions in the Drag "Pioneer" at 35mph

* 07 Jul 36 - AGM with Jonathan Worthington of Stourport - bullish mood

* 06 Apr 37 - Services from Birmingham to Coventry at 12mph (i assume via Meriden), but fails to reach Worcester

* 27 Apr 37 - Finally turns up at Worcester, topping 20mph. Two of the passengers play "See the conquering hero comes" on bugles. Slight accident in Foregate St. Fixed overnight, then continues down Foregate St & High St into Sidbury followed by crowds. Returns to Birmingham and is expected to journey to Cheltenham

The rest is history (and is unspeakably sordid).

Aside - Interesting factoid in following article in the latter clip: There are 169 Steam Engines in Birmingham with total of 2700HP (not stated whether stationery or Omnibus)

:MusicTuba:
(no pdf available, suggest you down load and use the magnify function on your JPG viewer eg Microsoft Windows Picture and Fax Viewer or Google/Picassa viewer)
 
Not I, perish the thought, but the good Dr.

Your index (so useful to have a timeline to focus the mind) suggested a few missing details and all I can take some credit for is pressing the buttons on the 19th Century British Library Newspapers, developed by Gale in partnership with the British Library and offers national, regional and local 19th century British newspapers, taken directly from the holdings of the British Library. The collection contains over two million pages from forty eight titles and unlocks extensive newspaper content which is invaluable for the researching and studying of 19th century history. Access is possible at most Libraries or from any PC using the barcode from your Library card.

Personally I use https://www.lancashire.gov.uk/onrl/premiums.asp as they also give access to the 17th-18th Century Burney Collection which my county doesn't. They signed me up in no time, but how long that will continue under the present economic retrenchment I do not know...
 
Nice One Molesworth!

Well however you did it, Molesworth, you're a genius! Go to the head of the class. And the wisdom of Berrow's Worcester Journal! Nice short articles, easy to transcribe, and right on topic! With a touch of rural scepticism. You can almost see the reporter, straw sticking out of his mouth, leaning on the gate as he watches the "Church 2" puff past. "We've waited four years for THIS? ;)"

Transcriptions next post.
 
The Worcester View. Huzza!

Berrow's Worcester Journal on "Church 1" and "Church 2". My emphasis.

12 June 1834.

Dr Church's steam carriage has made several experimental trips upon the road recently. The last trial, which was on Thursday [5 June], was most satisfactory in every respect. The carriage passed along Green Lanes, through the Small Heath Gate, and down the Coventry Road, in good style: and turned round and came back to the manufactory in the same manner, amidst the cheers of the spectators, and the huzzas of the workmen. — Birmingham Journal.

25 June 1835.

Several short excursions in the neighbourhood of Birmingham, have recently been made by the London and Birmingham Steam Carriage Company's drag, the "Pioneer", the first constructed by Dr Church upon that principle. In some parts of the road, the speed of the engine approached thirty-five miles per hour. We greatly doubt whether engines will ever be so constructed as to stand the wear and tear of common roads.

7 July 1836.

The annual general meeting of the proprietors in the London and Birmingham Steam Carriage Company was held on Tuesday last [28 June], Jonathan Worthington Esq of Stourport, in the chair. The report of the directors announced that an engine in every way efficient had been completed, and there remained no difficulty in building a number more like it, in a short time; it also stated that the proprietors were in a good position for realizing all their expectations as to working steam carriages on common roads at a good profit. The share-holders were unanimous in their determination to prosecute their undertaking with vigour.

6 April 1837.

Steam Coach. — A few days since Dr Church's Steam Coach went from Birmingham to Coventry, with an omnibus attached to it loaded with passengers, at the rate of twelve miles per hour. It ran up the hills at a rate of eight miles an hour. It returned with twenty-three passengers (three ladies) without any accident. On Friday [31 March] it proceeded to Meriden and back, also with an omnibus and passengers, and without accident. It was expected to arrive at this city on Monday last [3 April]; but the inhabitants having been hoaxed some time since respecting this steamer, were not disposed to look after it on Monday: and they determined wisely, for no steam coach made its appearance.

27 April 1837.

Dr Church's Steam Carriage. — This long-expected visiter [sic] actually arrived in this city on Monday last [24 April], about three o'clock in the afternoon, from Birmingham, having performed some part of the journey at the rate of a mile in three minutes [20 mph]. It came into the city in grand style, well loaded with passengers, two of whom played on bugles "See the Conquering Hero Comes!" It met with a slight accident in Foregate Street, and was, in consequence conveyed by horses to the yard of Messrs Reeves and Son, coach-builders, where it remained for the night. Yesterday it proceeded down Foregate Street and High Street into Sidbury, followed by crowds of spectators, and afterwards returned to Birmingham. It is expected to arrive here again to-morrow [28 April], and will probably go on to Cheltenham. Several horses we understand were much alarmed at it on Monday; and several gentlemen expressed a wish that the steam boiler would burst and break the carriage to atoms.
 
Molesworth, would you mind double-checking the dates on those? Because I found that one was wrong (labelled 25 June 1835 but should have been 24 June 1835).
 
Chiz, back in the jug agane, where is that lines machine when i need it?

340612 Berrow's Worcester Journal (Worcester, England), Thursday, June 12, 1834 Issue 6857

350625 Berrow's Worcester Journal (Worcester, England), Thursday, June 25, 1835 Issue 6911

360707 Berrow's Worcester Journal (Worcester, England), Thursday, July 07, 1836 Issue 6971

370406 Berrow's Worcester Journal (Worcester, England), Thursday, April 06, 1837 Issue 7010

370427 Berrow's Worcester Journal (Worcester, England), Thursday, April 27, 1837 Issue 7013


These are the file names from the British Library, but I could go on to check the front page of each - why do you think there is a problem? There are some other numbers with Church references but they seem to cover what has already been posted. However, as I am a completist and there are only 9 (ie four more) I will endeavour to grab them when I get a chance
 
The Church / LBSC chronology (post #167) has been updated with the Berrow's Worcester Journal gems discovered by Molesworth. It is remarkable that the steam drag "Church 2" finally reached Worcester on 24 April 1837, just seventeen days before Mr Kettle announced the dissolution of the London and Birmingham Steam Co on 11 May 1837! We also now have the name "Pioneer" for steam drag "Church 2".

The question now arises: if "Pioneer" was successfully travelling from Birmingham to Worcester (and perhaps even to Cheltenham) in late April and early May 1837, why did the company liquidate itself on 11 May?
 
....Don't forget the Meriden & Coventry service to the South East also as well as Worcester (Cheltenham on the wish list) to the South West!!

Further from Berrow's Worcester Journal:

* 331031 Berrow's Worcester Journal (Worcester, England), Thursday, October 31, 1833 Issue 6825
The steam Carriage is complete, name checks Charles Dance & The Brighton service, Talk of new road to Holyhead

* 340508 Berrow's Worcester Journal (Worcester, England), Thursday, May 08, 1834 Issue 6852
Trial in Green Lanes over newly gravelled road. Later breaks valve

* 341009 Berrow's Worcester Journal (Worcester, England), Thursday, October 09, 1834; Issue 6874
Further trials & breaks gauge-cocks (nasty!)

There are further numbers that mention the company but not Church which I will investigate at a later date. One that did catch my eye, and which may attempt to answer your question is:

* 310519 Berrow's Worcester Journal (Worcester, England), Thursday, May 19, 1831 Issue 6697
This talks about the Gloucester-Cheltenham service - the price of tickets has just gone down from 4/- to 1/-.

I think this may have set some sort of "Price Expectation" with the punters in Birmingham - maybe they realised there was no-way to make a profit? Also, even a Bob was perhaps a mistake in that it was probably too expensive for the volume customers (shall we call them?) and competed unfavourably with a private (or rented) horse and/or carriage that the niche customers that were most likely to travel further than a day's walking distance were likely to favour. Not that I have any knowledge of the industry, but I believe it is a perennial problem of the industry even today - do you price to cover costs but then loose customers to other forms of transport (or do you just grab a subsidy)
 
I can only find one Time entry and I think it is a rerun of the successful 4th Oct 1834 outing with Mr Harrison

* The Times Wednesday Oct 08 1834 pg 5 Issue 15603 col F.png
 
Thylacine said:
The question now arises: if "Pioneer" was successfully travelling from Birmingham to Worcester (and perhaps even to Cheltenham) in late April and early May 1837, why did the company liquidate itself on 11 May?
Click to expand...

Perhaps this may enlighten - although it may not be the same man, of course. From the London Gazette, 5th May, 1835 page 889 (not 1837, which would make more sense):

"WHEREAS a Fiat in Bankruptcy is awarded and issued forth against William Church, of the Parish of Aston,
near Birmingham, in the County of Warwick. Civil Engineer,,
Dealer and Chapman, and he being declared a Bankrupt is
hereby required to surrender himself to the Commissioners
in the said Fiat named, or the major part of them, on the
20th of May instant, and on the 16th of June next, at One in
the Afternoon on each day, at Radenhurst's Royal Hotel,,
in New-Street, Birmingham, and make a full discovery and
disclosure of his estate and effects, when and where, the
Creditors are to, come prepared to prove their debts, and
at the first sitting to choose Assignees, and at the last
sitting the said Bankrupt is required to finish his examination,
and the Creditors are to assent to or dissent from
the allowance of his certificate. All persons indebted to the:
said Bankrupt, or that have any of his effects, are not to pay or
deliver the same but to whom the Commissioners shall appoint,
but give notice to Messrs. Adlington, Gregory, Faulkner,
and Follett, 1, Bedford-Row, London, or to Mr. Wills, Solicit
tor, Cherry-Street, Birmingham."
 
This does apply, though. London Gazette again, 19th May 1837:

"NOTICE is hereby given, that the Company or Copartner-
ship lately subsisting, called the London and Birmingham
Steam Carriage Company, under or by virtue of a certain
indenture or deed of settlement, bearing date the 3rd day of
November 1834, was this day dissolved, by and with the con-
sent and approbation of the requisite number of Directors,
testified by a writing signed by them, and by and with the
consent and approbation of the requisite number of proprietors .
in the company or copartnership, pursuant to a clause in that
behalf contained in the said indenture or deed of settlement.
By order of the Hoard of Directors,
W. K. KETTLE, Secretary.
Birmingham, May, 11, 1837."
 
And again, on 13th Jaunary 1837 (although this refers to the bankrupt as a shareholder):

"THE creditors who have proved their debts under a Fiat in Bankruptcy awarded and issued forth against
Joseph Phipson, of Birmingham, in the county of Warwick,
Button and Military Ornament Manufacturer, Dealer and Chapman,
bearing date the 17th day of December 1836, are re-
quested to meet the assignees of the said bankrupt’s estate and
effects on the third day of February next, at three in the after-
noon, at the Hen and Chickens Hotel in Birmingham afore-
said, in order to assent to or dissent from the assignees of the
said bankrupt selling his interest in the effects and credits of
the trade in which he was lately a partner to his late partners,
or one of them, or to any other person or persons, or entering
into an arrangement with such partners for sale of the same
effects by private contract or public auction, and adjusting the
accounts of the said partnership trade by arbitration, or any
other method or methods ; and also to assent to or dissent from
the said assignees selling, by public auction or private contract,
or otherwise dealing with the interest of the said bankrupt
in a freehold house and land at Showell Green, near Birmingham
aforesaid, contracted to be purchased by, but not
conveyed to him ; and to assent to or dissent from the said
assignees paying or allowing out of the estate of the said bankrupt
the expences of, and connected with, an assignment of
his estate and effects to Messrs. Lloyd, Merry, and Parsons, for
the general benefit of his creditors, and all other payments
made by the said trustees under the said assignment ; and
to assent to or dissent from the said assignees confirming
all or any of the acts of the said trustees respecting
the estate and affairs of the said bankrupt; and also to determine,
in conjunction with the said assignees, as to the adoption
or disposal of the shares and interest of the bankrupt in
the London and Birmingham Steam Carriage Company ; and
to assent to or dissent from the employment of an accountant
in the arrangement of the affairs of the bankrupt; and also to
authorise the assignees to commence any suit at law or in
equity which may be necessary for the recovery or protection
of the bankrupt's estate ; and on other special business."
 
25th June, 1839 edition has an 'in passing' reference, which begs the question - if the steam carriage DID journey between the two towns, what route did it take?

"Thomas Callis, formerly of a Retail Beer-Shop of the sign of
the London and Birmingham Steam Carriage, Old Oak Com-
mon,Hodsden-green, in the parish of Hammersmith, Middlesex,
Licenced Retailer of Ale and Beer, amd Contractor for
that part of the Railway from London to Birmingham, at
Hodsden-green aforesaid, then still of the said Beer Shop,
Contractor for that part of line of the Great Western Railway
from Paddinjrton to Drayton, Middlesex, and Captain and
Owner of a Pleasure Boat, called the Amphitrite, and late
residing at the sign of the Friend at Hand, Harrow-road,
near Hodsden-green, Middlesex, Contractor for the part of
the line of the Great Western Railway from Paddington to
Drayton, Middlesex, and to Maidenhead, Berkshire, for a
short period a prisoner in the Queen's Bench Prison, in the
county of Surrey."
 
Good morning (Tassie-style) class! Thanks for you recent work, which I will study in detail while I drink my coffee. I think we can certainly promote the good Dr Church from "steam clown" to "serious steamer", especially in view of the resurgence of 1837. It does seem to have sent them broke though, judging by the LG entries. And how intriguing to find Thomas Callis of Hodsden Green, Middlesex, selling beer under the "LBSC" sign (I wish we still had that sign!). Wonderful stuff!

Where is everybody else? What ... all off sick? Stressed out by all the homework? Oh dear, oh dear ... [turns towards corner of classroom, bows head, discreetly weeps a little ... :cry:]
 
Lloyd said:
25th June, 1839 edition has an 'in passing' reference, which begs the question - if the steam carriage DID journey between the two towns, what route did it take?
...."
Click to expand...

Nice finds Lloyd, I haven't "Grand Mastered" the Gazette's search system yet so these finds are great.

I would think the more likely scenario is that the company had roped in various Hotels and, oh dear, Beer Shops along the proposed route - probably with that second issue of shares. But as you say what was the proposed route? Clearly through Meriden, Coventry and follow the London Road via Stony Stratford. Maybe the Hammersmith connection was for a future Worcester or Cheltenham to London route?
 
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I fear that all this shilly shallying of the steam carriage movement will bring down the the wrath of the British Government upon it's head and I predict doom, doom and thrice doom come 1831. Just you mark my words! Apart from that I shall slumber on at the back of the class - zzz
 
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