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Birmingham Steam Buses 1824-1910.

I wondered who expressed a wish that the steam boiler would burst and break the carriage to atoms. And who laid the gravel trap? (Cries of sir, sir, it was im sir from the cads and oiks of 3B)
 
Oo er sorry Sir, I just had a nightmare in which after 1831 the British Government passed a series of prohibitive Bills to discourage the development of steam road vehicles. Fortunately the superhero of his day, Sir Goldsworthy Gurney (also my boyhood hero - crowd cheers loudly) wades in and does much to persuade the government to change it's views and when the London, Holyhead & Liverpool Steam Coach & Road Co. was formed (but sadly failed) it showed the government that steam was still a mechanical possibility on the road. Was that route via Birmingham I wonder? It was a setback to steam in this country though and allowed those dissident colonials in America to steal a march on us in 1850 with this contraption built by some guy called Richard Dudgeon in some town called New York. Is that there Abe Lincoln ariding in the back?
 
Love the pic Mike - but can you give us some more info on the Steam Coach company of which you speke? I can see you are angling to clear up the 2nd comp
 
Berrow Strikes Again!

[Molesworth, here's my transcription (my emphasis) of your latest finds from Berrow's excellent Worcester Journal (the "oldest continually published newspaper in the world"), whose editor (Mr George "Wheel" Berrow?) was clearly maintaining a "watching brief" on steam developments. I haven't bothered with the Times article (8 October 1834), which is "lifted" from an (Aris's) Birmingham Gazette article which we already have (most of). Interesting, though, that the story was considered important enough to rate reproduction in the London Times. :)]

19 May 1831.

Steam Carriages on Common Roads. — Some of the advantages to the public from the use of steam on the turnpike roads already begin to show themselves. Previous to the starting of the steam-coach between Gloucester and Cheltenham, the fares were four shillings, each person, — now the public are taken by all the coaches at one shilling per head. On Tuesday morning [17 May 1831] the steam-coach took 33 passengers from Cheltenham to Gloucester in 50 minutes.

31 October 1833.

Arrangements are making for a trip from London to Birmingham with Sir C Dance's steam-carriage, in the course of next week. [Can anyone find out more about this enigmatic snippet? HELP PLEASE!]

Dr Church's steam-carriage, capable of carrying fifty passengers, inside and out, is complete, and will shortly be on the road from Birmingham. The engine and carriage are constructed together. The boiler consists of a series of double tubes, one within the other, placed in a vertical position round a circular fire-place, and communicating with it. The heated air passes through these tubes, which are everywhere surrounded with water. These tubes are in the form of syphons, to counteract the injurious effects of unequal expansion.

The recent trials of locomotive steam carriages upon common roads, and particularly of Sir Charles Dance's carriage, which has accomplished a journey from London to Brighton under five hours, and has been regularly running from London to Greenwich, have established, in the opinion of eminent practical Engineers, the fact that such carriages can travel at the rate of thirteen miles an hour upon the present imperfectly constructed roads, and must soon come into general use as public conveyances. We understand it is proposed with this view, to improve the Holyhead line of road as far as this town [Birmingham], and the road from hence to Liverpool, by widening them, and forming upon one side a distinct well-constructed steam-carriage road, deviating where necessary. By this means, the impediments arising on the present width will be so far removed as to allow of a velocity of at least twenty miles an hour, and without any apprehension of danger to other travellers. We are informed that plans and sections are in considerable forwardness, and that a company is forming to carry these objects into effect, the prospectus of which will shortly issue. — [Aris's] Birmingham Gazette.

8 May 1834.

Dr Church's steam carriage was started for the first time on Friday evening [2 May 1834], passing from the manufactory along the Green Lanes (a part of which had recently been covered with loose stones, calculated to retard its progress). It proceeded at a very rapid rate (say from fifteen to twenty mile per hour) with a great number of persons (upwards of forty) upon it for a considerable distance; when, in turning short about on the road, the hind part struck the footpath, and broke a small appendage to one of the valves. It was then deemed advisable not to work the machinery further for fear of mischief. — [Aris's] Birmingham Gazette.

9 October 1834.

Dr Church's steam-carriage made a trip in the neighbourhood of Birmingham last week; it ascended hills at the rate of ten miles an hour. On its return an accident occurred to one of the guage [gauge] cocks, which rendered it necessary to blow off steam and take out the fire. We scarcely ever hear of these experimental trips, without the occurrence of some accident, and we very much doubt whether engines will ever be rendered so perfect as to bear the wear and tear of common roads.
 
motorman-mike said:
... allowed those dissident colonials in America to steal a march on us in 1850 with this contraption built by some guy called Richard Dudgeon in some town called New York. Is that there Abe Lincoln ariding in the back?
Click to expand...

Thanks, Motorman, for that picture of Abe Lincoln (;)) and Richard "High" Dudgeon steaming to the White House in the 1850 Dudgeon "steam limo".
 
Aidan said:
Love the pic Mike - but can you give us some more info on the Steam Coach company of which you speke? I can see you are angling to clear up the 2nd comp
Click to expand...

Ah, my good and honourable skoolfiend Molesworth, unfortunately I don't have much to add other than the company was registered with a capital of £350,000 (a considerable amount in the 1800's) and proposed to pave the complete route for it's own coaches, and charge other users a toll, but nothing came of this and I can't confirm that any coaches ever ran. It may just be that Lloyd (or Sir) can throw some more light on this endeavor. Meanwhile the haw he haw fellows across the Canal Anglais were also trying to outdo us - no change there then! Moving on to 1873 and we find Monsewer Amedee Bollee Snr (with certain accents over some letters of his name which my Rule Britannia computer does not supply) put together this not unattractive steam coach. (I say not unattractive in comparison to the Renault Paris buses of the 1940's, the rear platforms of which seem to have been adopted from Monsewer Bollees steam coach at the boiler end). Vive la vapeur a la France haw he haw. I shall say zis only wance before we are up ze crick without a piddle.
 
L'Origine de la Vapeur 1763.

[Thanks, Motorman, for the "French connection". (I'm disappointed but not really surprised that you dropped out of M Bollée's French class.) Of course it was all started by "Les Grenouilles" :)shocked:) as early as 1763. The following was kidnapped from MRED post #783 (I'm holding it for ransom! ;)):]

The French can with justice claim priority in many transport innovations, and this is true of steam vehicles. In 1763 military engineer Nicolas-Joseph Cugnot (26 February 1725 - 2 October 1804) demonstrated to the Marquis de Saxe a working model of his "fardier à vapeur" (steam trolley). Towards the end of October 1769, Cugnot demonstrated a full scale version: the world's first self-propelled mechanical vehicle. He was helped by Lieutenant-General Jean-Baptiste Vaquette de Gribeauval (15 September 1715 - 9 May 1789) to develop a much improved version, which was trialled on Paris streets in November 1769, hauling four tons at speeds of up to four kph [that's about about 2.5 mph for unreconstructed "imperialists"]. In June 1771 the fardier à vapeur collided with and demolished a brick wall, so the authorities ordered it to be locked up in the Arsenal.

[The amazing Cugnot steam trolley, which pre-dates William Murdoch's model steam carriage of 1781 (but is also a three-wheeler!), survives to this day at le Conservatoire National des Arts et Métiers (collections managed by la Musée des Arts et Métiers, 60 rue Réaumur, 75003 Paris). This delightful QuickTime animation — does anyone know how to make it bigger? — explains Cugnot's ingenious mechanism]
 
I've updated the WHC / LBSC chronology (post #167) with the latest discoveries by Molesworth and Penfold (thanks chaps! ;)). I've also spaced it out to make it more readable. The result is one of those very long posts for which I'm well known, but I think it is very useful to have all the known facts in chronological order in one place where we can all readily consult it. (That's my excuse anyway.)
 
Re: Chronology of William H Church and the LBSC 1829-1837.

Thylacine said:
... It came into the city in grand style, well loaded with passengers, two of whom played on bugles 'See the Conquering Hero Comes!' ...
Click to expand...

Thus again flouting bye-law number four: "No passenger or other person shall while travelling in or upon any carriage play or perform on any musical instrument". :D
 
General Motors "Lear" Steam Coach 1973.

Yes folks, 1973 not 1873! :armycigar: The official caption to this US National Archives picture (below left) is:
Exhibit at the first Symposium on Low Pollution Power Systems Development held at the Marriott Motor Inn, Ann Arbor. Vehicles and hardware were assembled at the EPA Ann Arbor laboratory. Part of the exhibit was held in the motel parking lot. Shown here is the Lear steam bus 10/1973. Photographer Frank Lodge.​
But on the side of the vehicle itself is the fleetname "STEAM COACH", which appears to be more accurate terminology. However, the 1973-1974 picture (below right; which I suspect is of the same vehicle) clearly calls it a "steam bus". The caption gives us quite a bit more information:
First Federally funded alternative fuel transit bus project, the California Steam Bus, 1973-1974. SCRTD, Sacramento and San Diego, ran the experimentally powered buses with steam engines, a propulsion system designed with William Lear of Lear Jet fame. After the test, engines were removed and later used in a steam powered Lear race car that set a world land speed record.​
[Typical US: biggest bus ticket in the world! Both pictures half-inched from flickr.]
 
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Back to the Future.

Timothy Burstall (1776-1860) of Edinburgh and John Hill (dates?) designed and built a quarter scale model of a steam road carriage, which was exhibited around the year 1828.

[Observe another musician contravening bye-law number four! Can anyone discover more about these Scottish pioneers and their steam career?]
 
Molesworth determine to hav a half day hol today but here are some more snippets from BWJ (crie ye mercie yet?)

* 331017 Berrow's Worcester Journal (Worcester, England), Thursday, October 17, 1833 Issue 6823.jpg
Sir Charles Dance - Wellington St Strand to Greenwich at 11mph for 2/6

* 331024 Berrow's Worcester Journal (Worcester, England), Thursday, October 24, 1833 Issue 6824.jpg
Regular service of above

* 331031 Berrow's Worcester Journal (Worcester, England), Thursday, October 31, 1833 Issue 6825.jpg
Dance finishes with these experiments and "lends" his steamer to Talford, Cubitt & other scientific gents to take her to Birmingham (Note this is the same issue but a different article to the previous posting. Frustratingly no further mention of Dance/Steam after this)

* 350514 Berrow's Worcester Journal (Worcester, England), Thursday, May 14, 1835 Issue 6905.jpg
All the shares in LBSC - talk of the reserved shares being at least £4

* 420203 Berrow's Worcester Journal (Worcester, England), Thursday, February 03, 1842 Issue 7262.jpg
off-topic - the effects of steam engines on the poor workers

(note to self search for 3 blokes lost on steam carriage to B/ham in 1833 + the Gurney/London/Holyhead/Liverpool steamer if not muffled by the screams of anguish)
 
Good moaning, Molesworth! Thanks for more Berrow's. You've certainly earned a holiday. How about a Milton Keynes Metro "day anywhere" ticket? ;)
 
Re: General Motors "Lear" Steam Coach 1973.

[QUOTE=Thylacine; But on the side of the vehicle itself is the fleetname "STEAM COACH", which appears to be more accurate terminology. However, the 1973-1974 picture (below right; which I suspect is of the same vehicle) clearly calls it a "steam bus".

Whilst the stylish appearance of the GM steam bus may allude to it being a coach it is definitely a bus, being the iconic (in the USA) GM "Goldfishbowl" of which vast numbers of normal diesels were built as urban and interurban buses. Used extensively throughout the USA, they were also favoured by many Canadian operators.
 
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Thanks for that Mike! I stand corrected. Not very sure of my ground when it comes to our transatlantic / transpacific friends and their "mass transit". Despite living for a couple of years in the early 1970s in the land where trams are cars and cars are autos and buses look like coaches!
 
Pleez Sir can I now be ink monitor as well as a prefect pleez Sir, the gurl sat next to me will be so impressed Sir pleez (Creep Creep).:beam:
 
Birmingham or Bust (1 November 1833).

This article answers a few questions. It is taken from:

American Railroad Journal and Advocate of Internal Improvements. Volume 3 Part 1. January–July 1834. New York: D K Minor, 1834.

Steam-Carriages on Common Roads. — In the December number of the Repertory of Patent Inventions, we find the following account of the performance of a steam-carriage on common roads, which is deemed by many to be conclusive evidence of their ultimate success.

Steam-Carriages on Common Roads; with a Notice of the Journey to Stoney Stratford.
[From the Repertory of Arts, &c]

We are not disappointed in the expectations we hold out, that "steam-carriages might soon be expected on our common roads", a company being now formed for improving the roads, and running steam-carriages between London, Birmingham, Liverpool, and Holyhead: to be called the "London, Holyhead, and Liverpool Steam-Coach and Road Company", Consulting Engineer, Thomas Telford Esquire, Acting Engineer, John Macneill Esquire.

From the moment that Sir Charles Dance introduced his carriage to Messrs Maudslay and Field — and those gentlemen saw enough to induce them to undertake to make repairs and changes in the practical details — we were satisfied that the day was not far distant when this description of conveyance would become general; and it only required that the old carriage should be vamped up sufficiently to perform a journey of some extent, carrying such parties as could duly appreciate the performance; and who, from their practical experience, would judge whether sufficient had been done to justify them in lending their characters in the future advancement of this important project. The Brighton journey, from the admirable manner in which it was performed, naturally turned the attention of scientific men to the subject; and the regular running of the carriage between London and Greenwich for eight successive days (Sundays excepted), added to the general feeling, that enough had been accomplished to warrant that more decided steps should be taken to advance the introduction of steam conveyance on our common roads. Hence it was proposed by a number of influential individuals, that a further trial should be made of the engine, with a view to forming a company between London and Holyhead, should Mr Telford and other engineers be of opinion that the application of steam on common roads had become practicable; and a proposition was made to Sir Charles Dance, that his steam-coach should run to Birmingham. We have already expressed our opinion that the carriage had performed more than could have been expected, from the inequality of many of its parts; and it would probably (as far as the public opinion was concerned) have been desirable not again to have put the carriage on the road; this was the opinion of many, particularly of Sir Charles Dance himself. The liberal manner however in which Mt Telford and other engineers and scientific men had taken up the matter, and had tendered their talent to bring the carriage before the public, at once induced Sir Charles to give his approbation to the journey, more particularly as the engineers gave it as their opinion, that although they might not arrive at Birmingham, owing to the state of the carriage, together with the badness of some parts of the roads, they would be equally well able to form a decided opinion from what the present carriage was capable of performing, as to what more might be expected from a new carriage built by practical workmen, and with due attention to the proper distribution of strength. The question to be decided was, whether the principle was good; if, after a fair trial, the answer should be in the affirmative, then there would be no doubt that, placed in practical hands, engines would be produced capable of performing with as much certainty as any other means of conveyance, and with an increased degree of speed and safety: on the other hand, should the opinion prove unfavorable, and the principle be considered defective, this knowledge must have determined Sir Charles Dance on abandoning all further attempts to realize his great undertaking. Having given these introductory remarks, we cannot but express our pleasure in recording the liberal manner in which the engineers and other scientific men have come forward to advance so great a national undertaking, and by their characters and talent have given weight to the cause in which Sir Charles has so long, so arduously, and we may now add, so successfully labored. We are happy in being able thus to state, that the question of the practicability of steam conveyance on our present roads is now set at rest; because we are aware that many and various reports have gone abroad with respect to the Birmingham trip; but we doubt not that the results which we have given will show, that what was performed on that day convinced all parties present that enough had been done.

We will conclude our notice of this subject, by giving a few particulars of the journey of the steam carriage from London to Stoney Stratford, taken from the note book of one of the gentlemen present.

"On Friday, the first of November, 1833, Sir Charles Dance's steam carriage started from Gray's Inn Road, at about twenty minutes after three o'clock, A M, passing through Highgate Archway, arrived at the Wellington (between five and six miles) in thirty-three minutes, the road being on the rise all the way. At this place coke and water were taken in. When again about to start, it was discovered that the weld at the joint of one of the tubes had given way, and that the water was flowing copiously; the carriage was run into the yard, and the fire put out, in order to repair the defect. Mr Field, on examination, directed the man to cut out the defective part, and plug the ends; this was a work of time, owing to the want of tools. The object however was accomplished, and after four hours' delay the fire was again lighted, and the carriage once more took the road, and without further accident arrived at Stoney Stratford, fifty-two miles; at which place it was determined to dine and stay the night, and proceed forward next day to Birmingham. In the morning, on lighting the fire, it was discovered that the pipe was still defective, and would require to be removed that good joints might be made; this must necessarily cause delay. On a conversation of the parties it was generally agreed, that the practicability and economy of employing steam carriages as a means of transport for passengers on turnpike roads was fully established. The carriage remained at Stoney Stratford on Sunday, and was to have returned to town on Monday; but there being a meeting of magistrates and commissioners of public works on that day, who expressed a desire of seeing the performance of the carriage, it was determined to delay the return till Tuesday, on which day it came to town, a distance of fifty-two miles, in four hours and forty-five minutes, even with the bad state of the roads.

"We have with pleasure spoken of the liberality of one party of individuals; we cannot pass over in silence the illiberality of others. Immediately on its being determined that the steam carriage should go to Birmingham, Mr Macneill (one of the engineers of the Holyhead roads), assisted by Mr Gordon, undertook to make arrangements for supplies of coke and water at proper distances; by this means it soon became generally known that the carriage was expected: and in addition to the already bad state of this portion of the roads (the St Alban's trust), soft gravel to the depth of ten inches was laid over many parts, with a view to stop the carriage; but we leave this disgraceful conduct to receive its proper notice in the annual report to government of the commissioners and engineers of the roads. With the exception of this trust, the most liberal feeling was displayed by all parties and every facility afforded."

One of the principal roads having thus been taken up, and countenanced by some of our most celebrated engineers, leaves no doubt that attention will soon be called to other roads. An important benefit attending improving the present roads is, that the course of the traffic will remain unaltered; and thus the immense interests embraced on the "road sides", throughout the country, will retain and perhaps increase their value.

The subject of road making becoming thus a matter of the greatest importance, we hope to be able to give some particulars of the improvements which have been judiciously made on the Holyhead road; and we shall be happy to receive any information on this subject from our correspondents; for we are anxious to see every possible improvement introduced in our means of conveyance, whether on canals, railways, or common roads; we are advocates for all, for each means has its advantages; and we do not hesitate to say, that England is as much indebted for her prosperity to the facility of conveying her produce, as to any part of her economy.

Since writing the above, we have been favored with a copy of the report of the engineers who accompanied the carriage, which we subjoin.

Report of the Result of an Experimental Journey upon the Mail-Coach Line of the Holyhead Road, in Lieutenant Colonel Sir Charles Dance’s Steam Carriage, on the 1st November, 1833.

Public attention having been attracted to the practicability of travelling with locomotive engines upon ordinary turnpike roads, by a report of a Committee of the House of Commons, on the 12th of October, 1831, stating that, in the opinion of the committee, the practicability of such mode of travelling had been fully established; and more recently by a report of a journey to and from Brighton having been successfully performed by Lieutenant Colonel Sir Charles Dance's steam carriage, as well as by the fact that the same carriage was daily in use between London and Greenwich, conveying numerous passengers through the crowded suburbs of the metropolis without the slightest inconvenience to the public, we were desirous of personally making an experiment of the facility with which a carriage of that description could perform a journey of considerable length; and having selected the mail coach line of the Holyhead road for the purpose of such experiment, we made an arrangement with Sir Charles Dance for the use of his carriage, on Friday, the 1st instant. *The weight of the carriage, with the water, coke, and three persons upon it, was about 3 tons 5 cwt. The weight of the omnibus coach attached to it, 1 ton 0 cwt. The weight of the passengers, their luggage, and some additional sacks of coke, about 1 ton 15 cwt. Making the gross weight moved, 6 tons 0 cwt. The motive power was an engine with two cylinders, seven inches in diameter and sixteen inches stroke. The pressure of steam on the tubes constituting the boiler, or generator, was not allowed to exceed 100 lbs per square inch.

Before the carriage had proceeded six miles, one of the tubes of which Sir Charles Dance’s boiler is composed was found to leak so fast as to render repair absolutely necessary; it was also apparent, that the size of the engine was not sufficient to carry so great a weight along a heavy road at any high velocity.

The weather was by no means favorable, there having been much rain in the course of the night and morning, so as to make the road heavy, added to which the winter coating of new materials had, in many places, been laid upon the road. Notwithstanding these obstacles, upon our arrival at Stoney Stratford, 52.5 miles from town, it was found by Messrs Macneill and Carpmael, who had taken accurate minutes of the loss of time occasioned by stoppages, that the average rate of travelling had been seven miles per hour.

Thus there can be no doubt, that with a well constructed engine of greater power, a steam carriage conveyance between London and Birmingham, at a velocity unattainable by horses, and limited only by safety, might be maintained; and it is our conviction that such a project might be undertaken with great advantage to the public, more particularly if, as might obviously be the case, without interfering with the general use of the road, a portion of it were to be prepared and kept in a state most suitable for travelling in locomotive steam carriages.

Thomas Telford, President of the Society of Civil Engineers.
John Rickman, Secretary and Commissioner of Highland Roads and Bridges.
C W Pasley, Lieutenant Colonel Commanding the Royal Engineers, Chatham.
Bryan Donkin, Civil Engineer.
John Thomas, Civil Engineer.
Joshua Field, Civil Engineer.
John Macneill, Engineer to the Holyhead Roads.
Alexander Gordon, Civil Engineer.
William Carpmael, Civil Engineer.
J Simpson, Engineer to the Chelsea Water-Works.

London, November, 1833.

*These facts have been ascertained by Mr Joshua Field, Mr John Macneill, and Mr Alexander Gordon, civil engineers.
 
Molesworth returns refreshed from his half-hol and decides to share How to be Topp as a guide to Sukcess for tiny pupils

How to Succeed with Masters - Which wheeze/ploy to use?
* They're down there, sir
* But you told me to report to you and sa the whole of the Charge of the Light Brigade, sir
 
motorman-mike said:
Pleez Sir can I now be ink monitor as well as a prefect pleez Sir, the gurl sat next to me will be so impressed Sir pleez (Creep Creep).:beam:
Click to expand...

Pore Motorman, he is stricken and kno not what he do.

Lesson 2 - Sho kindness to those more unfortunate - here is all I can find in the pages of BWJ about Gurney special for Mike. Although he doesn't show a connection to Birmingham specifically, it do contain a lot of interesting general detail to the steam-carriage and omnibus enthusiast.

(notice the double wheeze here {or as Potter would term it the art of one-upmanship} in simultaneuosly appearing elevated above the other cads/oiks and blinding the Masters).

* G-271004 Berrow's Worcester Journal (Worcester, England), Thursday, October 04, 1827 Issue 6509.jpg
Order for Gurney's machine for a London-Bath-Bristol route

* G-271220 Berrow's Worcester Journal (Worcester, England), Thursday, December 20, 1827 Issue 6520.jpg
If you only read one article, may I suggest this one. An extended write up (well, for the BWJ) of the machines, inc steering gear (compared to whip & reins, lovely detail), and the roles of the staff while it is being shown at Regents Park. Discussion about the state and (lack of) regulations of the roads. Plans for trip to Windsor to show the King George IV and then first? run to Bristol. What pleased me & will I know at least please Rupert is the plans for stations along the route to replenish the boiler and furnace. Stipulation that they prefer rainwater but if they do clog up the use of chemical solvents to flush.

* G-280117 Berrow's Worcester Journal (Worcester, England), Thursday, January 17, 1828 Issue 6524.jpg
Daily passenger services Regent's Park - New Road at 10mph

* G-280124 Berrow's Worcester Journal (Worcester, England), Thursday, January 24, 1828 Issue 6525.jpg
Passengered service to Edgware

* G-280731 Berrow's Worcester Journal (Worcester, England), Thursday, July 31, 1828 Issue 6552.jpg
bit terse note that they are told for the 20th time that the machine is ready....
 
.......part 2-of-2

* G-310217 Berrow's Worcester Journal (Worcester, England), Thursday, February 17, 1831 Issue 6685.jpg
Trial of service Worcester-Cheltenham

* G-311110 Berrow's Worcester Journal (Worcester, England), Thursday, November 10, 1831 Issue 6722.jpg
Cheltenham-Gloucester service ceased as the road has just been macadamised (thinks - worse excuse than even these days)

FIN

PS (The Dance machine was last seen heading up the London Road in the hands of Talford & Cubitt, never to be heard of again - at least in the BWJ - usual reward if found)
 
Molesworth, I think that "Voyage of the Dance" was the trip described in post #212 on 1 November 1831. It was heading from London to Brum but got stuck at "Stoney Stratford", which is in your neck of the woods. Some ancient Saint Albansians spread deep gravel on the road (but that wasn't the cause of the failure). So I don't think the "Dance" ever came to Brum.
 
.....my eyes, my eyes, etc.....(now to try the sympathy ploy)

or

"Steam-Carriages on Common Roads" of course I did the homework sir, you misunderstand me.....
 
I don't mean anything by this, merely for interest, but Stony Stratford is the home to the phrase Cock & Bull Story - each were an important coaching inn in the town, which itself was an important staging post. They are still decent pubs today and are indeed within the confines of Milton Keynes. Streetview here https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=52...l5lUJDdVkjOyYiHSOrTMw&cbp=12,115.93,,0,-14.17 showing The Cock with its lovely signage. The High St is semi-pedestrianised but the Bull is on the same side a few doors down (under scaffold and tarpaulin) but use the magnifier to see its sign.

I would imagine that the party stayed at one or other of these.


P.S. - I don't understand why gravel and even tarmac were the sworn enemies of these gargantuan machines - any ideas. or is it just me?
 
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