• Welcome to this forum . We are a worldwide group with a common interest in Birmingham and its history. While here, please follow a few simple rules. We ask that you respect other members, thank those who have helped you and please keep your contributions on-topic with the thread.

    We do hope you enjoy your visit. BHF Admin Team

Birmingham Steam Buses 1824-1910.

Excellent, Penfold! That's quite a nifty mechanism (even I could follow it!). The translation of "remonter du piston opposé" as "rifting the opposite piston" (at 2:04-2:07) sounds a bit like a Japanese instruction manual, though! The "World's First Car Crash 1769" advertised at the end also depicts the Cugnot steamer (silent-movie style) colliding with the wall (though it actually happened in 1771). Thanks! :cool:
 
Aidan said:
... I don't understand why gravel and even tarmac were the sworn enemies of these gargantuan machines - any ideas. or is it just me?
Click to expand...

The gravel laid down on the Gloucester-Cheltenham road which defeated the "Dance" steamer (breaking the rear axle) was said to consist of 18 inches of "fines". Perhaps someone can explain the mechanics of how this caused the failure. I've no idea why tarmac would be a problem: I would have thought quite the opposite. But the good Dr Church had a system for laying down a granite road, and Telford and Co talked of laying a separate track beside the road for the steamers. Perhaps the new vehicles were just too heavy for the way the roads were built.

[Note added: actually I wonder if "macadamised" at this period had anything to do with tarmac as we understand it; in this context it could just refer to that deep layer of fine gravel, i e steam carriage sabotage.]
 
Last edited:
Also advertised at the end of Lloyd's Cugnot animation video (post #222) is one depicting an 1815 steam car built by this bloke (courtesy of Google Translate, which baulked at "parovozu" — appears to be Russian for "steam engine"):

"Josef Božek (February 28, 1782 to October 21, 1835) was a Czech engineer and designer, best known for construction of the first parovozu in the Czech lands"

Which connects nicely to our colleague Motorman, whose other classroom "A 1993 'Brum Busmans Holiday' in Eastern Europe" is well worth a visit! ;)
 
SGSB Assignment Reminder.

Ahem! Attention BSB classmates! (Oh dear, I sound like Bluebottle!). I've been underwhelmed by the response to my "Second Generation Steam Bus" (SGSB) assignment, which was put up on the notice board 24 hours ago (post #173). The lack of response is probably because the notice is on the previous "page of the hymn book" already. (This thread's puffing along like a steam bus! ;)). Just to get the ball rolling, here are three SGSB services in The Midlands:
1904-1905: Great Western Railway operated three Clarkson 20 hp B18R steamers (reg DA80-82) on a Wolverhampton - Bridgnorth service (Wolverhampton is about 12 miles form Brum).
1904-1905: North Staffordshire Railway operated Straker steam buses on the moors of Staffordshire and Derbyshire (Leek - Waterhouses, Ashbourne - Waterhouses and Buxton - Hulme End) as feeders for the (then) new Manifold Valley Light Railway (Ashbourne is about 46 miles from Brum). Pictured below.
1903-1906: Brailes Shipston-on-Stour and Stratford-on-Avon Steam Omnibus Co Ltd operated two Straker steam buses (reg AB53 and AB199 later AC11 and AC10) on a Brailes - Shipston - Stratford service (Stratford is about 25 miles from Brum).​
Now "The Midlands" is a big place! In our search for SGSBs, we can include all of "Great Mercia": Derbyshire, Gloucestershire, Herefordshire, Leicestershire, Northamptonshire, Nottinghamshire, Oxfordshire, Shropshire, Staffordshire, Warwickshire, and Worcestershire. And even Wales and Lincolnshire if you like. And we're looking for good-quality pictures, not just anorakian details (but those too of course!). Happy hunting!
 
[Here (my emphasis) is a little more on the Telford company referred to earlier (posts #195, #197, #212). It is taken from the curiously titled:

R Cort. Rail-Road Impositions Detected: or, facts and arguments to prove that the Manchester and Liverpool Railway has not paid one per cent nett profit; and that the Birmingham, Bristol, Southampton, Windsor, and other Railways, are, and must ever be, only bubble speculations. London: W Lake, 1834.

Accessed 18 July 2010 via a Google Books e-text.]

42. Besides, turnpike roads can and will be made suitable [for steam carriages]. One of our most intelligent engineers, Mr Macneill, in his evidence before a Committee of the House of Commons, observes: "If, on the road from London to Birmingham there were a portion laid off on the side of the road for Steam Carriages, which could be done without difficulty; and if it were made in a solid manner, with pitching and well broken granite, it would fall little short of a Rail-road." The Commercial Road, for example, is confirmatory of Mr Macneill's suggestion.*

43. But on this point, much valuable information will be found in the pages of Sir Henry Parnell's Treatise, published by Longman and Co, on the science, practice, and legislation of Road Making; containing plans, specifications, and contracts actually used by Mr Telford on the Holyhead Road. In consequence of this publication, two Companies are now actually forming, both under powerful auspices, one called "The London, Holyhead and Liverpool Steam Coach and Road Company", at the head of which Sir Henry Parnell presides, for the purpose of laying down a granite tramway along the same line with the proposed Railway to Birmingham; and the other Company is from London to Bristol precisely with the same object, along also the same line as the Railway to Bristol, at one tenth of the cost of the latter.

*An experienced waggon-carrier asserts, that the effect of a granite road upon his trade will be, that four horses will do the work of seven, and goods may be carried 30 or 40 per cent cheaper.
 
The Parnell "Treatise" referred to in the previous post (#227) is:

Sir Henry Brooke Parnell, Bart (1776-1842). A Treatise on Roads; wherein the principles on which roads should be made are explained and illustrated, by the plans, specifications, and contracts made use of by Thomas Telford, Esq, on the Holyhead Road. London: Orme, Brown, Green and Longmans, 1833 (first edition) and 1838 (second edition).

This book is available in no fewer than six :rolleyes: e-book versions from archive.org: first edition (copy 1, copy 2, copy 3); second edition (copy1, copy 2, copy 3).
 
'Morning all. Sorry I'm late for class, Sir, but I've had a hard few days at work and overslept by about 12 hours today.zzz

I haven't before seen that picture of the steam bus in Broad Street, Leek, looking towards Junction Road and the North Staffordshire Railway station there - the railway is the site of a Morrison's supermarket now (just out of view to the right in the modern view - you can see the rail bridge far right which now links two parts of Morrisons site).

I can't decide on the make of the steam bus - the badge on the front looks like that from a Straker-Squire, though.
 
Sir, that Lloyd has kicked my shin under the desk and said I had dozed off when you gave out homework as second generation steam buses but I didn't and here is a Brailes - Stratford-upon-Avon Straker. It's not the best of views as it is blown up (pardon the pun Sir) from a cigarette card sized photo. No Sir I don't smoke, I swopped it off somebody else for a swig of my Tizer.
 
Last edited:
Reproducing some nifty pics from the trusty Science & Society site https://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?x9=VEHICLES,+STEAM,+CARRIAGES - there is a lot to keep us going on there for early steam pioneers (well there goes my prize day) that we haven't covered yet. A load on Gurney, Motorman!! Mr Hill's exploits deserve attention. As does the Buckingham based J E McConnell/Thomas Rickett machine of 1860 (does that count as 2nd phase - they may well have travelled North towards Caithness!)

My go first - Here are some contemporary cartoons though of the dangers of steam travel:

* ‘A Steam Coach with Some of the Machinery Going Wrong’, c 1825. Hand coloured caricature engraving showing a steam-powered coach exploding, hurling its passengers in all directions. Published by Thomas McLean, 26 Haymarket, London.

* 'New Principles, or the March of Invention' early 19th century. Satirical coloured aquatint showing an exploding steam-driven carriage hurtling its passengers mid-air, and startling the passengers of a horse-drawn insurance company carriage. The onlooking drivers remark, 'Blown up by God and not one soul left behind', 'Well they will have their hobbies'.

* ‘A Burster by Steam’, c 1835. Coloured etching by W Chater showing passengers being hurled through the air by the exploding boiler of a steam coach. Published by H Torond.

* ‘The Horses, Going to the Dogs’, 1829. Print designed, etched and published by George Cruikshank. A satire on the invention of the steam carriage, it shows four horses commenting as such a carriage passes. Meanwhile, two dogs in the foreground speculate on the likely availability of cheap meat now that horses will no longer be required to pull coaches

* London and Birmingham Steam Carriage Co share certificate, 1835. Engraved £1.00 certificate issued to Mr Joseph Gill. [should this be in the joke section? See me - Ed]
 
motorman-mike said:
... here is a Brailes - Stratford-upon-Avon Straker ...
Click to expand...

Thanks, Motorman, for that excellent (if fuzzy) picture of a BSSSO Straker SGSB. The challenge to the signwriter to fit the l-o-n-g fleetname is clearly seen (and admirably overcome!). And is that a life-buoy hanging beside the steps? In case of Avon- or Stour-related accidents? ;)

[It's good to see SGSBs trickling in!]
 
Aidan said:
... pics from the trusty Science & Society site ... dangers of steam travel ... London and Birmingham Steam Carriage Co share certificate ... to Mr Joseph Gill ...
Click to expand...

Molesworth, thanks for the S and S pictures. Some lovely depictions there of contemporary fears / jokes of steam boiler explosions and redundant horses. :)

The 1835 "second tranche" LBSC share certificate is particularly interesting. Can we learn the indentity of shareholder Joseph Gill (possibly a coach proprietor, carrier or innkeeper associated with the Birmingham - London route)? The certificate is signed by three directors: I can make out the names of John Rotton and Joseph Phipson. The image is sadly too small (and pixillates too much if "blown up") to see the details very clearly. Are there any Birmingham "scrip" collectors out there who can supply a better image?
 
Aidan said:
... a Midland Red (...or Brown) Steamer ...
Click to expand...

Ah, the "Midland Brown" steamer! Perhaps reproducing the Birmingham Motor Express / Midland Red 1905 Wolseley "chocolate" livery. Ten points for finding a steamer with the word "Midland" on it! ;)
 
Gillett Steam Bus 1898.

[Right, now you Pommies have all gone to bed, I can get on with my work! ;)]

In 1898 E Gillett and Company (Hounslow, London) built a double-deck steam bus with a "light canvas awning" over the upper deck to protect passengers (from "noxious effluvia" no doubt). This remarkable steamer was licensed by the Metropolitan Police on 21 January 1899, and entered service with the Motor Omnibus Syndicate Ltd in April 1901 (two "lost years" there). It was never in regular service, and was sold in March 1902. This bus must be a contender for the "earliest SGSB" ribbon, but perhaps the Leyland steam bus pipped it to the post. (Can anyone establish priority?). The Gillett steamer is pictured below (by courtesy of the excellent London Transport Museum picture collection). Too far from Brum for our SGSB competition, but a fascinating example of the genre, don't you think?
 
New Church Steamer Picture.

Also from LTM is this slightly different version (with a new bus-spotter!) of the "Allen Mark 2" engraving of "Church 1":
 
Aussie SGSBs 1905-1906.

And, though slightly too far away from Brum for the SGSB competition, here are pictures of Victorian Railways ("first steam railway to operate in Australia") steam buses number 1 (pictures [1] and [2]) and number 4 (picture [3]). These interesting vehicles operated a regular Malvern - Prahran (Victoria, Australia) service between 1 December 1905 and 17 June 1906. This was "reputedly the first Victorian use of self propelled vehicles for public passenger traffic". Pictures [1] and [2] show the same (?) group of people, on an excursion to the Dandenong Ranges where picture [2] was taken.
 
Lloyd said:
... Sorry I'm late for class, Sir, but I've had a hard few days at work and overslept by about 12 hours today ... I haven't before seen that picture of the steam bus in Broad Street, Leek ... the badge on the front looks like that from a Straker-Squire ...
Click to expand...

[Sorry, Lloyd, I missed this first time through today ... My eyes! My eyes!]

Thanks for your attendance, Penfold! I fear this Worcester job is having a negative impact on your school work. ;)

The North Staffordshire Railway SGSB picture is from the excellent Staffordshire Past Track website, which informs us that it is indeed a Straker. They have four pictures in all of these impressive "railway feeder" vehicles:

[1]. The picture posted above.
[2]. Outside the "Plough" hotel, Endon.
[3]. Outside "Ye Old Crown" inn, Waterhouses.
[4]. At Waterhouses station (a tinted postcard, giving an idea of the livery).

We are told: "After the link between Leek and Waterhouses was completed the buses were sold to Mr Wedgwood of Burslem who converted one into a furniture removal van and another into a holiday caravan".
 
Potteries SGSB 1901.

BET tramway company Potteries Electric Traction Co Ltd (PET, known in local dialect as "Pay Ay Tay") bought two Straker SGSBs and put them in service in the Staffordshire Potteries district in April 1901. They apparently didn't measure up to the local traffic conditions, and were sold in March 1902 (to whom, I wonder?). I'm not sure of the route operated, but Burslem is about 50 miles by road from Brum.

This seems to have been PET's first trial of the motor bus. Can anyone discover more about the PET steamers? A picture would be nice. ;)
 
BSB is a Hit!

After little more than a week of existence, the BSB classroom is in the BHF Transport / The Buses "views" hit parade at number 14 with a bullet! (More than 2,000 views already.) BSB is number 4 in the "replies" chart, which means that we've all been working very hard.

So, ladies and gentlemen, take a bow! :)

[Er ... where are "The Gurls" anyway? Motorman, what have you done? ;)]
 
Here is a little more information (cf posts #226, #229 and #239) on the North Staffordshire Railway 1904-1905 steam buses (from Leek and Manifold - The one that got away):
From the onset the Leek and Manifold Valley Light Railway (LMVLR) was managed by the North Staffordshire Railway and they decreed that the route should have just three passenger services in each direction per week day however the service was increased to five trains each way on Saturdays and market days. The single journey, in either direction, was timetabled to last forty five minutes with a similar amount of time being allocated to the interval between journeys. The return fare advertised, of one shilling and three pence, represented good 'scenic' value for money if nothing else. When the LMVLR opened for business [27 June 1904], the branch connection from Waterhouses to Cheddleton Junction (later to be known as Leek Brook Junction) was incomplete and two steam buses, manufactured by Straker and Co of Bristol were used to provide a rail replacement service. This steam bus journey added a further one hour to the overall Leek - Hulme End journey time and it continued in use until the dual gauge station at Waterhouses was opened for traffic in July 1905. On completion of the branch, the steam buses were sold off but one of them, E223, remained in the local area being converted for use as a removals van in Stoke on Trent by Arthur Wedgwood and Co.​
[The North Staffordshire Railway was known locally as "The Knotty". ;)]
 
Thylacine said:
Thanks for your attendance, Penfold! I fear this Worcester job is having a negative impact on your school work. ;)
The North Staffordshire Railway SGSB picture is from the excellent Staffordshire Past Track website, which informs us that it is indeed a Straker. They have four pictures in all of these impressive "railway feeder" vehicles:
Click to expand...
The picture posted above. I have already supplied a 'today' view for that in post #229.
For the others, however:
Outside the "Plough" hotel, Endon. [Not 'Emdon']
Outside "Ye Old Crown" inn, Waterhouses.
At Waterhouses station (the site of it - the Leek and Manifold Valley Light Railway, closed in 1934, is now mostly a foot and cycle path called the Manifold Way).

The L&MVLR has gone as well as the Straker steamers, but we can at least see it running. An unusual feature is the use of transporter wagons to carry standard gauge goods stock, and the provision of standard gauge sidings at some of the stations to park such stock on.
 
More SGSBs.

Here are two more pictures of SGSBs, which I will provide links to rather than upload, since they have the dreaded word "copyright" on them. Clearly neither is eligible for our competition:

[1]. Berlin steam bus 1907.
[2]. London and South Western Railway Chelmsford 32 hp steam bus (date?).
 
Wonderful movie of the LMVR, Lloyd! Thanks for finding it and sharing it with us. It's a shame the railway hasn't survived, but I would hardly call 1904-1934 a "short life" (Wikipedia). When I come to England (dream on!) I'd love to walk the Manifold Way: what splendid scenery!
 
By the way, folks, Phineas Thylacine now has a pair of speakers on his computer, so is no longer "cyber-deaf" :Stereo234: (I've been enjoying a few YouTube Beatles videos).
 
Re: New Church Steamer Picture.

Thylacine said:
Also from LTM is this slightly different version (with a new bus-spotter!) of the "Allen Mark 2" engraving of "Church 1":
Click to expand...

That's a good find. It actually looks more like a painting than an engraving and I wonder if it is the original image from which the engraving was taken "after". Wonder at the decision to change the spotter from smocked & stockinged portly farmer to toll-Road Navvy? The detail of the toll-booth is much more realistic in this and there is the suggestion of church towers behind (or bridge footings?). The armorial is similarly more realistically showing the Lion & the Unicorn and the passengers seem to have more character than the etchings more cartoon like representation. I like!
 
There are a number of remarkable images on the LTM site including:

* Various pics of the National Steam Bus Co - is this the forerunner of National Express Coaches?

* engraving showing three steam-omnibuses designed by Walter Hancock - Infant (1831), Era (1832) and Autopsy (1833) - shows an economy of paper/screen

* The Commercial Motor publication of 18 Jan 1912 states -this is an early attempt to motorise a horse bus. Steam direct driven forecarriage designed to replace two front wheels of an ordinary horsebus - fantastic driving position
 
Aidan said:
Various pics of the National Steam Bus Co - is this the forerunner of National Express Coaches?
Click to expand...

Thomas Clarkson's National Steam Car Company which closed in 1919 existed for only ten years, amassing a maximum number of 184 vehicles in 1914. No connection with National Express, whose origins are with the National Bus Company (1969-1988) having been created as a marketing organisation for the long-distance express coach services of the NBC's constituent companies - although the name descends from the former National Omnibus Co Ltd, which ran services in Devon (later under the names of Southern National and Western National) and East Anglia (later Eastern National) and later still was part of the THC (Transport Holding Company) formed to control the bus operations previously administered by the Railway companies when the latter were nationalised after WW2.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top