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Birmingham Steam Buses 1824-1910.

Wrong Thylacine, as a West Country bloke I ave to tell ee tiz Isambard Kingdom Brunel in the stovepipe topper. Well known and cherished for many marvels down Bristol way amongst others. He of course designed the Great Eastern but sadly it defeated him but that's another story.
Mike
 
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Some further Church references:

Journal of the Franklin Institute, Volume 22 By Franklin Institute (Philadelphia, Pa.) 1836 - no pics but talks of planning 3 stops between London & B/Ham to change engines every 26miles

The Atheneum 1832 - Article comparing Gurney (p490), Hancock, Church on p506, correspondence with Ogle & Hancock on p540

The comic Almanack 1841 - Vintage humour with Lovely horse-bus frontispiece and Dr Church joke inc sketch of the ill-fated locomotive on p292

The Edinburgh review, Volume 56, Oct 1832 - more articles on Gurney, Hancock & Church & their trials & tribulations (heavy going & no sketches)

The Philosophical magazine 1830 - address of Dr Church - Heywood House? (there is a Haywood House, Mucklow Hill, Halesowen the site of the present day Midland Bus & Coach Ltd [that seem to have a virus on their website!!] - can this be the same...I don't know)

There is a print of the famous print in the Globe Hotel, Topsham, Devon https://www.globehotel.com/ apparently or why not commission your own https://www.1st-art-gallery.com/Joh...don-And-Birmingham-Steam-Coach,-1833-(2).html or https://www.1st-art-gallery.com/Joh...-London-And-Birmingham-Steam-Coach,-1833.html


In other steam bus news I attach a pic of Torquay & District Motor Omnibus Co steam Bus c1905 doin wot they were supposed to - extending the range of steam travel without the need for rails ( https://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/terryleaman/Tiscali/Torquay_Transport.htm for more).

Introduction of steam omnibuses—The "Autopsy," the "Era" and the "Automaton" - nicely written background with pics on (mainly London) Omnibuses & cabs.


Well that should keep us going for a bit. zzz

Probably obvious quiz question - what is the derivation of the word "Omnibus"?
 
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I think the Great Eastern still exists...beached somewhere in the Falklnds. At least I think I read that it was. It was used to lay trans Atlantic cable also.
 
I am looking into Josiah Allen, but, in the meantime, could the statement that the picture of the Church machine was “ after John Cooke” mean “in the style of John Cooke, and could John Cooke be John Cooke Bourne, who painted did many railway pictures:(https://www.allposters.com/gallery.asp?aid=1251217212&c=c&search=114156&cat=114156&LinkTypeID=5&PosterTypeID=1&DestType=12&Referrer=https://www.chris-melchior.com/art_links_artists_alphabetical/art_links_artists_Jm.htm ). His father was John Cooke, but I can’t find any pictures of that one (as opposed to the modern painter of that name).
It’s only a thought, but I see a similarity in the style of the pictures
Mike
 
The attribution I have seen is "John after Cooke" so that does sound very plausible Mike (although the John could indicate initial or surname). I agree that the look of these paintings does seem of similar style and quality

Could do with some other look-ups please....

Address for Dr William H Church? (likely to be Heywood House...something)
Do we know where his workshop was?

Tangye - Where in Soho was Smethwick Hall/Cornwall Works? (Winson Green is also mentioned so assume it may be around Foundry Lane/Road rather than Handsworth)

Question - why would Tangye be testing his Steam Omnibus "around the village green" in Kings Norton 9miles south of Soho?
 
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Regarding Josiah Allen., I.could only find two other pictures apparently attributed to him, both of the singer machine factory in elizabethville new jersey(https://www.allposters.co.uk/-st/Josiah-Allen-Posters_c86431_.htm ). But he must be the person who lived in Colmore Row when he apprenticed his brother James Baylis. Allen (born 18.4.1803, died 10.1.1876, engraver, mainly landscapes). In later life, at least, he seems to have made his money as a printer as much as engraver, being mentioned as printer of several books being sold on the internet and also of several bookplates. There is a memorandum in the Birmingham archives (https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/records.aspx?cat=143-ms3375_3-2&cid=1-1-1#1-1-1 ) for lease of part of a house and yard in Bennetts hill in 1855 .

The directories show a slightly complicated situation, in that there was a Josiah senior and Josiah junior, each with their own firm. In addition it is sometimes listed as Josiah, sometimes Joseph. There seems , in fact to be a number of (probably) related Allens in the printing, stationary engraving etc trades.. I think it must have been senior who engraved the church machine, but have put in other details for completeness
1830 Allen Jos. engraver, copper-plate printer,and publisher, 3, Colmore-row
(there is also an Allen and Bridgen, stationers, letter-press printers and booksellers,8,Colmore.row , who I suspect may be family)
1833 Allen Joseph, engraver copper-plate printer, and publisher, Bennett's-hill
Allen Joseph, printer, 6 court, High-st
1839 Allen & Lyon, engravers, booksellers, and stationers, 5, Bennett's hill
Allen Josiah, Frederick street
Allen Joseph, bookbinder, &e., Cannon street
1841 Alien & Lyon, booksellers, stationers, printers and paper dealers, 5 Bennett's hill
Allen Josiah, engraver, 5 Bennett's hill
Allen Alfred, general engraver, copper-plate, letterpress and lithographic printer
and account book manufacturer,3 Colmore row
Allen George, engraver, 196 Livery st
1845 Allen & Son, booksellers, stationers, engravers & copper plate printers, 3
Colmore row
Allen Josiah, jun. letter press printer, 8 Colmore row
Allen Joseph, printer, bookbinder & stationer,11½ & Cannon St.& 215 High st
Deritend
1849 Allen & Son, booksellers, Stationers & printers, 3 Colmore row
Allen Joseph, printer & stationer, 215 High street, Deritend,& 11½ Cannon st
Allen Josiah, engraver & copper plate printer, 3 Colmore st
1855 Allen Josiah, bookseller, stationer, engraver & copperplate & lithographic
printer, 3 Colmore row
Allen Josiah, jun. gereral winter & wholesale stationer,10 Livery St
Allen Joseph, stationer & winter. 237 Bradford street & 11Cannon St
1858 Allen Josiah, engraver and printer, 3, Colmore Row;h,4, Frederick st,
Allen Joseph, & Son, stationers & account book mfra, 114, Cannon street
Allen Josiah, jun., printer, wholsale stationer & account book mf., 10, Livery
st; h,Woodland cottage, Birchfield
1862 Allen Josiah, wholesale stationer, 3, Colmore Row;h,4, Frederick st,
Allen Josiah, jun, printer, &stationer, 10, Livery st; h,Woodland cott.
Birchfield
Allen Joseph, & Son, stationers & account book mf, 11½ Cannon street
1867-8 Allen Josiah, engraver, printer, stationer 7 binder ,3 Colmore Row;
Allen Josiah, jun, printer,stationer and acc. Book manuf., 9 &10, Livery st
Allen Joseph, & Son, stationers & stationers, 11½ Cannon street
1872 Allen Josiah, printer, wholesale stationer & acc. book manf, 74 Suffolk street
Allen Joseph, & Son, stationers & stationers, 11½ Cannon street
I think here the senior Josiah has either died or retired, and the Josiah here is the one who used to be junior.
mike
 
I think the Great Eastern still exists...beached somewhere in the Falklnds. At least I think I read that it was. It was used to lay trans Atlantic cable also.

Rupert, It was the SS Great Britain that was abandoned in the Falklands, and now returned to Bristol (towed on a pontoon) where a fantastic restoration has taken place in the original dry dock where she was built. Well worth a visit.
 
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Below is an excerpt from the british History website concerning the smethwick Hall & cornwall works

About 1780 Smethwick Hall seems to have been the home of the Rabone family, prominent Birmingham merchants. Richard Rabone was living there in 1834, and when he died in 1838 aged 85, he was said to have resided there for almost sixty years. (fn. 95) It is uncertain whether he died there as in 1835 Edward Rabone was said to be the occupant. He still lived there in 1850. (fn. 96) In 1851, however, the hall was occupied by a tenant, Samuel Clarke, who farmed 30 a. (fn. 97) He was still there in 1853 and was succeeded by John Howard Blackwell, tenant of an ironworks near Halford's Lane, who lived at the hall in at least 1854 and 1855. (fn. 98) By 1859 the Rabones had sold the hall to Joseph Gillott, a Birmingham steel-pen manufacturer. By then the house was known locally as Rabone Hall. (fn. 99) In 1862 the house and grounds were bought by a firm of hydraulic engineers, Tangye Bros. & Price of Clement Street, Birmingham. The house was demolished and the firm erected the Cornwall Works on the site. (fn. 1)

Cornwall works can be seen on Rabone road on the 1901 map

Mike

cornwall_works__smethwick_c_1901.jpg


View attachment 53264
 
... tiz Isambard Kingdom Brunel in the stovepipe topper...

Shame on me for not recognizing "The Engineer" himself! :headhit: So Richard Trevithick Tangye must be the great Isambard Kingdom Brunel's smaller companion. Caption corrected accordingly. Thanks Mike.

... Probably obvious quiz question- what is the derivation of the word "Omnibus"?

Excellent question, I refer the class to my Treatise on this subject.



 
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Eh? Oh, now I've woken up can I point out that the Great Eastern was broken up over 18 months in 1889/90. Oh, and as for Omnibus I must refer you to the Latin-esque poetry of Mr A.D. Godley:

[SIZE=+1]MOTOR BUS[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]by: A.D. Godley[/SIZE][SIZE=+2]
w_pic.gif
[/SIZE]
HAT is this that roareth thus?
Can it be a Motor Bus?
Yes, the smell and hideous hum
Indicat Motorem Bum!
Implet in the Corn and High
Terror me Motoris Bi:
Bo Motori clamitabo
Ne Motore caedar a Bo--
Dative be or Ablative
So thou only let us live:
Whither shall thy victims flee?
Spare us, spare us, Motor Be!
Thus I sang; and still anigh
Came in hordes Motores Bi,
Et complebat omne forum
Copia Motorum Borum.
How shall wretches live like us
Cincti Bis Motoribus?
Domine, defende nos
Contra hos Motores Bos!

(yawns, turns over and falls asleep again)
 
2010-07-13 11:54:43

[I am posting here the transcribed (very long) letter from "Junius Redivivus", originally published in 1833 in the Mechanics' Magazine, Museum, Register, Journal and Gazette (MMMRJG). It is the last in a remarkable series of letters on the "Church" steam bus published in this magazine in 1833. The first three letters have been posted here and are well worth reading as a background for this one. However, the Junius letter can be enjoyed in isolation.

The author "Junius Redivivus" was Staffordshire-born inventor, locomotive engineer and author William Bridges Adams (1797 – 23 July 1872). Adams became a noted writer on political reform using the pen-name "Junius Redivivus" (Junius Reborn), after another (and much better known) "Junius" of the previous century. The 1770s Junius was a scathing political journalist, whose true identity is still undetermined.

I found our Junius letter (and the others) in a Google Books version of MMMRJG (Volume 20, October 1833 – March 1834) which is cunningly disguised as Iron, an Illustrated Weekly Journal for Iron and Steel. Sadly there seems to be no archive.org version (they have many issues of MMMRJG, but their poor indexing system means you have to go into each one to discover the date!). MMMRJG is an essential source for the historian of technology, but it would certainly be helpful if someone would provide a full annotated index of links to the available internet e-texts.


Letter 4. MMMRJG (No 536, 16 November 1833).

Sir, — Were it not for the grave tone in which your correspondent, "Impartial", writes, in No 533, one might really be inclined to suspect him of a piece of solemn irony, in forwarding to you the drawing which serves as a frontispiece to that Number. If that drawing be a correct representation of the vehicle constructed by Dr Church, it is in itself conclusive evidence of his utter unfitness for the purpose of promoting steam locomotion. A single glance is sufficient to shew [sic], that the inventor or proprietor, or whoever he may be, has been more anxious to make a startling outward display than to secure effective working gear. The thing looks like a car of Juggernaut, intended to be moved only under the influence of strong internal excitement, rather than a vehicle intended for purposes of every day utility. It looks like a mountain, and a mountain scarcely to be moved. If there be one form of carriage more liable to overset than another, it is that of three wheels in a triangle, and this defect Dr Church has contrived to secure, doubtless, upon the principle that three points are ever sure of finding a bearing, which four are not. Yet any housewife could have informed him, that a three-legged stool is most insecure sitting; and that a three-legged table is proverbial as the sworn foe of all crockery ware. In the drawing the wheels are apparently all of one size, and "Impartial" states them to be eight feet in diameter. Thus, the heads of the outside passengers, who are so comfortably and leisurely seated on stick chairs or benches on the roof, must be some four-and-twenty feet from the roadway. Verily, they will be enabled to look down upon pedestrians, even as the Tower of Lebanon looketh towards Damascus [Song of Solomon chapter 7 verse 4]; but I fear the pedestrians would outstrip them in speed, as they are accustomed to serve other broad wheeled waggons [sic] moving by horse power, and ask, as they pass, "what the temperature may be at that height?" And how perseveringly the two coach-bodies are lugged in, as if it were essentially necessary to the due working of the machine, that the egg form should be retained, even when the other parts had ceased to harmonise with it, as if a coach could not be a coach at all, without an elliptic bottom to it. And then the policeman stuck as guard at the right hand corner, and Bob Logic beneath him, with a cigar in his hand, and the fat coachman placed in a sort of pulpit, with a box-coat and sundry capes, and a whole piece of shawl handkerchiefs round his throat, and the ordinary supply of boot-tops, trying to turn a winch-handle, whose proportion to the cumbrous mass, is as if a man were to try to turn a crane or a grindstone with a watch key. And then the lady with a windmill in her bonnet, snugly ensconced behind the partition; and the King's-arms [sic], at full length, emblazoned on the huge splashing board, which stands on a pair of double elliptic springs, apparently of the size fitting for a child's chaise; and a third single elliptic spring, carefully fixed at both ends, effectually to prevent its action. And, though last not least, look, reader, at the Mambrino's helmet, adorned with quaint devices and matchless Arabesques, beneath which the wheel works, and would do its best to fill it with mud, provided the revolutions were sufficiently rapid. And the wheels, too, that matchless contrivance to get elasticity out of the end thrust of steel bars. Oh, Dr Church! Dr Church! It is a sad thing to be afflicted with an "Impartial" friend. But for him your carriage might have remained quiet at Brummagem, and the knowledge of it concealed in the specification at the patent-office. Your ancestor, Capt Benjamin Church, was a brave man, and a very Joab amongst the Pequod Indians, when, by their "devilish machinations", they disturbed the peace of the "fathers" who formed the code called the "Blue Laws". He was a great man, but he never dreamed of the "great thing" which his descendent was to achieve, and call by the name of a steam carriage.

To be serious — and really it is a matter of much difficulty to restrain one's mirth on the subject — "Impartial" seems to lay much stress on the fact, that Dr Church long ago persuaded a company, whose money he has long been expending in his speculation, of the practicability of his scheme. Will "Impartial", therefore, give us something more definite than Mr Allen's sketch reduced? Will he tell us how much money has been expended on this enormous erection, what may be its total weight, how many miles it can go per hour, whether it ever moved at all, and how far in the total?

Some of the evidence before the honourable house goes to shew [sic] that the majority of the persons engaged in the manufacture of steam-carriages are not possessed of the skill either to construct a wheel carriage or a steam-engine, and therefore, lucus a non lucendo, have set about forming a combination of both. This kind of absurd speculation does much mischief, by giving the public an ill opinion of all those who are engaged in prosecuting experiments in a novel branch of practical science. Were the quackery of the matter utterly put an end to, we should get much quicker at the ultimate result.

While I write, the Number with the drawing of Mr Hancock's carriage is put into my hand. "Look here upon this picture and on this." A glance at the "Autopsy" at once impresses the mind of one conversant with mechanics with the conviction, that if this be not an actual practical working machine, the constructor has at least gone about it with great judgment, in order to combine his moving machinery with an available space for passengers. The whole thing looks, as the sailors say, "ship-shape". As is the case with most men of real merit, Mr Hancock has shewn [sic] none of the disposition so prominent in most of his rivals, to thrust mechanical crudities before the public, and vouch for them as pieces of perfection; yet I have understood, from those competent to judge, that from the first of his experiments he has pursued the same systematic course, and with results which bid fair to realise the object pursued by so many schemers.

The movable firegrates of Mr Hancock mark a sagacious mind reasoning by induction; but it now becomes a question whether the discovery of Mr Rutter [who?] will not render them needless.

I remain, Sir,
Yours very truly,
Junius Redivivus.
2 November 1833.
 
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2010-07-13 16:50:25
[Thanks, Aidan, for finding the 1836 article on the "Church", which I thought interesting and important enough to transcribe, so that we can pull it apart and quote from it. It's a bit long (especially with my introduction), sorry! :rolleyes:]


The article dates from 1836, three years after poor Dr Church was engulfed in the storm of controversy already covered. The press is being much kinder on this occasion to Church and the "Church" steamer, but the vehicle described seems to be a new model based on an 1835 patent, so I'm going to call it "Church II". The article appeared a few weeks after the last recorded Annual General Meeting of the London and Birmingham Steam Carriage Co (LBSC), to give the correct title, at which the twelve Directors (under Chairman Jonathan Worthington) were instructed by the investors to proceed "quietly and cautiously in building one carriage" at the company's Bordesley Green works. The article does have something of the flavour of a "corporate media release". Less than a year later on 11 May 1837, LBSC secretary W R Kettle (great name for a "steam man"!) announced the dissolution of the company. [Thanks to Alec Jenson's Birmingham Transport (1978), for details of LBSC company history.]

The article contains many interesting and new details: the steersman is called the "conductor"; the carriage is now designed as a steam drag; the seats aboard the "locomotive" are now "inferior class";
how strangely modern is the description of the environmental benefits of the design, with the absence of "offensive effluvia" being praised; also interesting is the use of railway terminology: "station", "locomotive engine", "trains of carriages".

The article is taken from the American Journal of the Franklin Institute (JFI, Volume 18, October 1836), accessed via Google Books e-book version of JFI (Volume 18, July - Dec 1836) on 13 July 2010. From the cryptic attribution at the bottom, I deduce that the article originally appeared in the London Journal of Arts and Sciences and Repertory of Patent Inventions (LJASRPI, Volume 8, August 1836). There are many issues of LJASRPI on archive.org (inadequately indexed as usual), but I have been unable to find Volume 8 (March – August 1836). Can anyone find a picture of the "Church II" of 1835?]

[The introduction was so long, I've deferred the article itself to the next post!]
 
Dr Church Gets Some Good Press 1836.

Dr Church's Steam-Coach.

[This is the article introduced in the previous post.]

We have much pleasure in stating that Dr Church has at length completely and satisfactorily accomplished the construction of a steam carriage, in every way suited to run on ordinary roads.

The external appearance of the carriage is made exactly to resemble a stage-coach, and is about the same dimensions. It consists of a frame work with a casing enclosing the boiler and engines; the furnace, fuel-box, water chamber, and condenser, all of which hang upon springs, supported by the running wheels, require no auxiliary tender.

The casing is formed and painted like an ordinary stage-coach, the conductor sits, for the purpose of steering, in the place of a coachman, on the box in front; the engineer who attends the fire and the machinery, and has command of the steam, stands also in front, in an open compartment, below the conductor.

There are seats for the persons on the roof before and behind, as in other stage-coaches; but as this carriage is intended merely to be the locomotive engine for impelling a train of carriages connected to it, the seats upon this are to be considered as of an inferior class.

Some of the most important features of the locomotive carriage as now completed, viz the peculiar construction of the boiler and arrangement of the working parts of the machinery, form portions of the subject of a patent granted to Dr Church, on 16 March 1835; the specification of which, embracing other matters, is too elaborate for insertion in our present number, but will most probably appear in our next.

As several partially successful, but, in our opinion, very unsatisfactory attempts have been made by other persons, to impel carriages on ordinary roads by steam power, we consider it necessary to point out some of the peculiarities in Dr Church's present carriage, which we consider to be its striking features or advantages. — Firstly, though the engines work at high pressure, the eduction steam is so effectually condensed after passing from the working cylinder, that no visible portion of it escapes into the air, but the whole is converted into water, and re-conducted into the boiler in a heated state. Secondly the flues are so constructed and arranged, that no smoke is allowed to escape from the chimney; and the consequences of these two novel features, as regards locomotive engines running on ordinary roads, are very important, viz that neither is there any perceptible noise arising from the discharge of steam, or any offensive effluvia emitted from the combustion, so that the carriage proceeds along the road without, in the slightest degree, attracting the attention of horses which may pass it.

We have only space to say further, that the Birmingham and London Steam-carriage Company [sic], with whom the Doctor is connected in this invention, are perfectly satisfied with the carriage as now completed; and though alterations and slight improvements may and will necessarily be adopted in the future exercise of the plans, yet they deem the present carriage to be so fully effective and satisfactory, that they have advertised for a practical engineer to superintend the erection of a sufficient number of these carriages at their works, exactly according with the model produced.

We understand it to be the intention of the company to establish three stations between London and Birmingham for their trains of carriages to halt at, and to supply a fresh locomotive engine at each station, in order that the engines, after running about twenty-six miles, may be severally examined, and such little matters as cleaning, oiling, and adjusting parts attended to: which arrangement will avoid subjecting passengers to the inconvenience of delay, and tend greatly to prevent accidents.

We have only to add, that having witnessed the manner in which this carriage performs its duty on the public road, we have no hesitation in saying that we are now satisfied that steam may be safely, and, we believe, economically, employed, in connection with Dr Church's improved machinery, as an effective substitute for horses, in the ordinary transit of stage-coach passengers on all the turnpike roads in the kingdom.
 
Does it for me - I'd buy shares (if my bank manager wouldn't prevent me...)

Nice transcribing too Thylacine, Mr Red Pen only had to come out twice, VG silver star for effort and interest, tho suspect motivation re: "pull it apart"

Q for this morning/evening - Is there a "Church Carriage Works" or similar in Bordesley Green mentioned in the directories in late 1830s/1840s?
 
Don't know about a works, but the 1841 census has, in High Street, Bordesley, :
William Church, 50 Engineer, b. "foreign parts";
Ann Church, 45, not b. Warwickshire;
John Willoughby, 15, b. Warwickshire;
Francis Willoughby, 13, not b. Warwickshire;
Jane Gazy(?), 20, servant(?), b. Warwickshire.

High St Bordesley is, of course, between Digbeth and Stratford Rd: what would the esteemed Dr. make of the latest National Express coaches running from a modernised 'station' less than 1/4 mile from his house?
 
Good question, Aidan. And thanks for the Comic Almanac link above, from which I grabbed the picture below (December 1841 issue). Our poor Dr Church seems always to have been a figure of fun. I hope he had a good sense of humour himself. :grinsmile:

Good morning, Lloyd. I trust you slept well. ;) Is that the new Digbeth coach station? Very snazzy. Do you know when it's going to open?

The advantage of local knowledge is that you knew that Bordesley is a quarter of a mile from Digbeth. (Geography was never my best subject). I think Dr Church would be very pleased with developments in public transport,
 
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the 1851 census lists William Church, widow, 64, b. Washington, Mass, USA, occupation "M.D., Dartmouth College (not practising)"; lodging at Stratford Place, Camp Hill [which is still there! and only a stone's throw from High St Bordesley]; with owner Mrs E Smith (50); her sons Edward (18 - an Electroplater) and John (15 - a Clerk) all b. Stickney, Lincolnshire; fellow lodger James Milner (28) b. London, assistant curator to the Chapel of the Holy Trinity; and servant Louisa Smith (17), b. Birmingham.

Ann (Mary Ann?) Church died 2nd quarter of either 1841 or 1846.

For interest, Francis Willoughby, (now 34?), b. Kingsbury, Warwickshire is now at Brooke Villa, Leamington Priors - a Lieutenant RN on half pay, with wife Mary Ann (22) and two servants.
John Willoughby (35) is at nearby 4, Tachbrook, Leamington Priors (possibly one of these) with widowed mother Marion (61).
These dates do suggest the 1841 ages of the Willoughbys are wrong, but the ages stated are clearly 18 and 15.
 
... and the King's-arms, at full length, emblazoned on the huge splashing board ...

This must be referring to King William IV (21 August 1765 - 20 June 1837; ascended the throne 26 June 1830). I cannot find any reference to the flying eagle being this King's arms. Can anyone figure this out? And perhaps find a picture of said arms.
 
Well snap Lloyd but you take the credit for finding the original census and Stratford Place - chiz, chiz, chiz, Back in the Jug Agane.

I agree the 1851C says he is MD not Master but I think it is Worthington not Washington. On the 1841C I think the Willoughby's are a different family in separate rooms indicated by the / symbol between families
 
In directories I can only find the following on Church:
1833 Church Dr Green-Lanes (presumably Green Lane)
1841 Church Wm. civil engineer, 95 High st, Bordesley
1845 and 1849 there is no mention of Church (or 95 High st Bordesley, though it may then be Deritend & Bordesley school, which , unnumbered is between 94 and 96)

Mike
 
Oh for the wisdom to understand but a word of this thread but I still love it.
So anyway, in 1831 Sir Charles Dance started his 4 times a day Gloucester - Cheltenham service with this improved version of the famous Gurney Royal Patent coach used on the Bath - London service. Presumebly the success of this coach led to the need for the larger Gurney steam tractor and trailer coaches used later. This improved 28 horsepower design ran on smokeless coke but like the Royal Patent had no brakes. Braking was effected by throwing the engine into reverse (and someone scotching the wheels in place of a handbrake perchance?). A prototype of this coach is reputed to have run from Melksham, Wiltshire to Cranford , Middlesex in just 10 hours.
 
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Ah, don't confuse Bordesley Green (your pic) with High Street Bordesley where the older office far right (R A Lea & Co, Accountants) is no. 123, so Dr Church's house is closer to town in the direction the view is looking, same side of the road.

I'm not doing very well today am I? I'll get me coat (am no longer worthy to call it an anorak...) :explode:
 
... I cannot find any reference to the flying eagle being this King's arms ...

This coloured version of the "Allen Mark 2" print does seem to have the Royal coat of arms on the dash. So perhaps "Junius Redivivus" was talking about this picture. I like the "bus spotter" (he's got the LBSC fleet book and by golly he's going to underline the "Church" when he gets home tonight! :D)

[I don't have any image processing software (except Paint): can someone turn the brightness up (just a bit) on this one for me please? :rolleyes:]
 
Very old versions of Microsoft Picture Editor (part of MS Office) and Corel Photo House. I've tried newer stuff but can't use it as easily as the stuff I know.
 
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