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ROBERT JONES Lyndon Road

NickieJ said:
Where do i fit Cadwaladr in is he owens uncle
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As mentioned the relationship between Owen D Jones and Evan Owen may not be as straightforward as the obituary makes out. Owen and Evan may be cousins or it may be that Owen and Jane (Evan's wife) are cousins.

Either way due to the nature of the names involved it is difficult to be certain which of Owen's parents would be related to which of Owen's or Jane's parents. That is eight possible relationships.

The only thing that made me initially think that it was Owen's and Jane's fathers was that there was an Owen of the correct age in the household of Cadwaladr (Jane's father) in 1881. However, he was not listed as a nephew and it could just be a coincidence that I've read too much into.

To progress with any certainty you would need to know the name of Owen's father, from his marriage to Sarah perhaps.

NickieJ said:
Is this the family you found
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Yes, it appears to be the family of the Cadwaladr I mentioned.
 
MWS said:
As mentioned the relationship between Owen D Jones and Evan Owen may not be as straightforward as the obituary makes out. Owen and Evan may be cousins or it may be that Owen and Jane (Evan's wife) are cousins.

Either way due to the nature of the names involved it is difficult to be certain which of Owen's parents would be related to which of Owen's or Jane's parents. That is eight possible relationships.

The only thing that made me initially think that it was Owen's and Jane's fathers was that there was an Owen of the correct age in the household of Cadwaladr (Jane's father) in 1881. However, he was not listed as a nephew and it could just be a coincidence that I've read too much into.

To progress with any certainty you would need to know the name of Owen's father, from his marriage to Sarah perhaps.



Yes, it appears to be the family of the Cadwaladr I mentioned.
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Im waiting on the marriage certificate they take ages as you have to have the original for some reason the birth and death certificates you can upload the pdf.
 
Things are at a bit of standstill with your Jones ancestors until then. Hopefully, when you know it, you will be able to trace Owen further back and possibly find the relationship to Evan Owen (or Jane Jones).
 
Looking back at the obituary for Owen Jones, most of the other cousins and nephews have common Welsh names but there was one that seemed less so. That was an Edward Grove and there didn't seem to be that many but frustratingly I can't connect him.

One of the mourners mentioned was a Clarence Luke, who appears to have been Idwal's brother in law. He and a couple of others are followed by (Nelson) but not sure what the implies.
 
I think Nelson might refer to the village of Nelson. (Perhaps to identify them if more than one person of the same name). The cemetery was in Aberfan whch looks to be part way between Merthyr and Nelson.
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MWS said:
Looking back at the obituary for Owen Jones, most of the other cousins and nephews have common Welsh names but there was one that seemed less so. That was an Edward Grove and there didn't seem to be that many but frustratingly I can't connect him.

One of the mourners mentioned was a Clarence Luke, who appears to have been Idwal's brother in law. He and a couple of others are followed by (Nelson) but not sure what the implies.
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Yes Idwal was married to Priscilla Luke so most probably her brother.
 
Owen could possibly have an aunt called Jane Jones who married Even Owen children Glyn, John, David and Robert can’t be 100% though until I get marriage certificate for parents names.
 
I’ve just remembered Hazel said the family bible goes back to 1866, I have asked if Owen David Jones parents are on there. Will let you know.
 
MWS said:
Thanks, I didn't consider a place name, I thought it may have been some Welsh term.

And you can see Troedyrhiw on your map where they lived so even closer. Angus St is in the centre (left of the River Taff) of this map from 1911...

View map: Ordnance Survey, Glamorgan XII.14 (Merthyr Tudful) - Ordnance Survey 25 inch England and Wales, 1841-1952

maps.nls.uk
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I have just checked the full newspaper page and am convinced Nelson is a place name. The obituary before Owen's had names in brackets which are clearly places - one was Neath.
 
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Did you see this about Troedyrhiw, some nice old photos though none appear to show Angus St or Diana St...

Troedyrhiw

Historical Photographs of Troedyrhiw, Merthyr Tydfil.
www.alangeorge.co.uk
 
All those Jones people in the pictures and no name I recognised, pictures are great though and the write up. I was told Idwal was a spiritual lay preacher at the Nazareth church and a deacon so would if thought I’d find some pictures of him but I can’t find anything.
 
You've got to be quite lucky to find a relative in some random pictures. There appear to be a number of mentions of Idwal in the Merthyr Express in his capacity as preacher/deacon but nothing really of interest.

However, there does seem to be a possible mention of Arfon and Idwal attending the funeral of an Edward Thomas Jones, described as nephews. I think this may be the Edward H Jones listed as attending their father's funeral listed as a cousin.

Looking at him, he comes from the same place as their mother so again I suspect he is a relative of her rather than their father. And I think the relationships are a little more complicated than cousins and nephews.
 
MWS said:
You've got to be quite lucky to find a relative in some random pictures. There appear to be a number of mentions of Idwal in the Merthyr Express in his capacity as preacher/deacon but nothing really of interest.

However, there does seem to be a possible mention of Arfon and Idwal attending the funeral of an Edward Thomas Jones, described as nephews. I think this may be the Edward H Jones listed as attending their father's funeral listed as a cousin.

Looking at him, he comes from the same place as their mother so again I suspect he is a relative of her rather than their father. And I think the relationships are a little more complicated than cousins and nephews.
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She was a Williams the other side is Jones unless a Jones married a Williams. Or there is some kind of cousin marrying cousin etc going on
 
NickieJ said:
She was a Williams the other side is Jones unless a Jones married a Williams. Or there is some kind of cousin marrying cousin etc going on
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The trouble is Jones and Wiiliams abound in Wales so it is quite possible for marriages to take place without any distant relation at all.
 
NickieJ said:
She was a Williams the other side is Jones unless a Jones married a Williams. Or there is some kind of cousin marrying cousin etc going on
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The mother of Sarah Ann Williams was a Margaret Jones I think.

NickieJ said:
Does it say who Edwards widow is if she was still alive
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His widow is alive but not mentioned by name. The sons and son in laws are and with that info she seems to be a Mary/Maria Davies. No obvious connection.
 
MWS said:
The mother of Sarah Ann Williams was a Margaret Jones I think.



His widow is alive but not mentioned by name. The sons and son in laws are and with that info she seems to be a Mary/Maria Davies. No obvious connection.
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Will put Margaret Jones i tree see what happens
 
I think I've mentioned her before, Margaret Jones wife of David Williams, though their was a slight discrepancy with her age to that on later censuses which gave you some doubt.
 
This is my nan and grandad robert jones wedding that i have just been given unfortunately no one in the family knows who the people are so im assuming the people on my Grandads side are Arthur,Dennis their dad william not sure on the others cant be Gladys she had died by then.Thought i would show you as you both have been invested in my tree and its nice to put names to faces
 

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NickieJ said:
This is my nan and grandad robert jones wedding that i have just been given unfortunately no one in the family knows who the people are so im assuming the people on my Grandads side are Arthur,Dennis their dad william not sure on the others cant be Gladys she had died by then.Thought i would show you as you both have been invested in my tree and its nice to put names to faces
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Maybe the two women are Doris Wilkins and Gwendoline neat
 
This is Edward Grove from the obit of owen. Same age buried same cemetery.still dont know who he is
 

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The above Edward Groves was born in the Clun area of Shropshire, so no connection through him is immediately obvious. His wife Catherine Jane (Owen) appears to have been born in Caernarvonshire so possibly the connection was through her but difficult to work out.
 
The stone says GroveS but the newspaper said Grove (no S). Is this significant?
The funeral report that goes with that stone is
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From Merthyr express Saturday 24 November 1951
 
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