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Fox and Grapes - Digbeth

my problem was that i could not get my bearings horsencart..nothing unusual...would you happen to have the other 3 drawings please if not i will do a search as i am sure i have seen them somewhere

lyn
 
I have found them there are three plates to look at (there is one plate missing ) there is in the thingy? it is not a book more like a thingy? that give a details about the riot but I have not read it for years, the thing is that I always have a problem with plates 3 and 4 in trying to place it in a modern Brum, (I could do if I tried but to be honest I cannot be arsed ) enjoy https://www.flickr.com/photos/dofartshavelumps/42847632000/in/dateposted/

Lithograph views that was the word I was struggling for
 
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brilliant horsencart thank you for taking the time to find and post as they do give us a good sense of the occasion..to be honest i think park st and freeman st look in just as much disarray now as they did way back in 1867 some things just dont change

cheers

lyn
 
I seem to remember we looked at this drawing of the pub some time ago, but cannot find the posts. silvester Read (not Reads) is the landlord in the 1868 Post office directory. In Aris' Birmingham Gazette of 29th June 1867 he is reported to have claimed £29 for damage incurred during the riots. The damage did not put him off keeping the pub , as in May 1870 he is fined for keeping the house open outside permitted hours. In both these references, the pub is known as just the Fox, no Grapes.
 
yes i agree mike i think we did thats why i thought i had a copy of that drawing and i have just found it in my files trouble is like you i cant find where on the forum we discussed it..
 
I see from a Birmingham Live report on my tablet that Profesor Carl Chinn has expressed his disgust at what has happened here, too late to save it all??
BOB
 
my son has just been past and the pub is still standing so yet another delay in demo...the 3 chimney tops and the freeman st sign that was on the pub wall that we see on post 202 have now been removed...i will try and find out where they have gone to because i dont have them:(

lyn
 
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Taken this morning, won't exist after Tuesday, spoke to one of the workmen, they have to take it down a brick at a time, they think the road will collapse if knocked down insitu, also they believe the building is full of asbestos, and therefore cannot let anyone have any part of it,( I asked if I could have a small memento), sad to see, a few photos, this is as near as they would allow me.
 

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Yes Frothy, and this is the culprit part to blame, not the station, but what's on the hoarding.
 

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LATEST UPDATE

john they must have changed their mind abut pulling it down brick by brick.. ...i know i said i could not go and watch but because of my involvement in trying to save this pub i just had to go....

demo started at about 7 oclock this morning sunday 16th sept...myself and son tom got there at about 11 by which time it was down save the door and a bit on the side..

i called over 2 HS2 bosses to ask a few questions
the 3 chimney tops and the freeman st sign are with heritage which is good news

the archaeologists went in this morning and were not able to do the amount of tests etc as they would have liked because of the dangerous state of the building..they did take plaster samples

the whole area including the site of the pub will now undergo an extensive archaeological excavation lasting 2 to 3 years ..i asked if there maybe a viewing platform and they said yes that was being discussed although it goes without saying that when the human remains are bought out this will be closed to the public

like john we were only allowed as far as the barriers and our tom took some shots standing on the nearby wall but a very kind traffix worker said he would take toms new fancy camera and get some close ups which he did...so if he reads this many thanks

finally i asked the HS2 people if i could have a couple of bricks as a reminder of our past history so they waited for the machines to stop and very kindly went and picked me two up:)...taken from the front of the pub and most definately original so i am so chuffed

although this is a sad conclusion to my part of this story at least we may get to learn even more about the history beneath our feet once the dig starts..i will post a few photos later folks although i will never accept that the fox and grapes could not have been saved had it been looked after properly since it closed

lyn
 
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Astoness said:
LATEST UPDATE

john they must have changed their mind abut pulling it down brick by brick.. ...i know i said i could not go and watch but because of my involvement in trying to save this pub i just had to go....

demo started at about 7 oclock this morning sunday 16th sept...myself and son tom got there at about 11 by which time it was down save the door and a bit on the side..

i called over 2 HS2 bosses to ask a few questions
the 3 chimney tops and the freeman st sign are with heritage which is good news

the archaeologists went in this morning and were not able to do the amount of tests etc as they would have liked because of the dangerous state of the building..they did take plaster samples

the whole area including the site of the pub will now undergo an extensive archaeological excavation lasting 2 to 3 years ..i asked if there maybe a viewing platform and they said yes that was being discussed although it goes without saying that when the human remains are bought out this will be closed to the public

like john we were only allowed as far as the barriers and our tom took some shots standing on the nearby wall but a very kind traffix worker said he would take toms new fancy camera and get some close ups which he did...so if he reads this many thanks

finally i asked the HS2 people if i could have a couple of bricks as a reminder of our past history so they waited for the machines to stop and very kindly went and picked me two up:)...taken from the front of the pub and most definately original so i am so chuffed

although this is a sad conclusion to my part of this story at least we may get to learn even more about the history beneath our feet once the dig starts..i will post a few photos later folks although i will never accept that the fox and grapes could not have been saved had it been looked after properly since it closed

lyn
Click to expand...
That's great Lyn, just goes to show don't believe all you hear, but then you being a lady may have had some sway, ha ha.
 
thanks john and alan i have to say that one of the HS2 people was a female but i was determined to ask a few questions and they had no problem in answering them.... in fairness john the traffix man did mention a possible road colapse but because there maybe an extended cellar to the pub under the road..must have decided there was not as it came down wholesale... all i can do is report what i have been told so lets see what happens next... i have learnt over the years never to fully believe all you are told when it comes to anything to do with our historic buildings none of them are safe

lyn
 
Just want to say a big thank you to Lyn (Astoness) for all her efforts in trying to save the F&G. It can be a thankless task, and we all know Lyn has given up a lot of her time to do this. You’ve earned your bricks Lyn. Viv.
 
thanks viv i am slowly getting over it now..found it quit upsetting but glad i decided at the last min to go up there today and i shall treasure my bricks..i am sure if anyone else wants one if they get up there sharpish like in the next couple of days they will get one..will post a few photos tomorrow..

lyn
 
A big thank you from me too. I know it can be like pushing sand uphill when working with old building, i too have a sense of sadness when their gone. I see an old building as a place where memories are stored, the people who lived and worked there and the stories they exchanged.

You did your best Lyn, it is very much appreciated.

If you want to think about the past, and old building in a different way, Bridget Minamore write this amazing poem
 
It was Grade II listed, not even that could save it!

https://britishlistedbuildings.co.u...rapes-public-house-nechells-ward#.W566JvZReUk

Listing Text
FREEMAN STREET
1.
5104
City Centre B5
No 16
(Fox and Grapes
Public House)
SP 08 NE 7/32
II
2.
Corner site with Park Street. Possibly late C17 or early C18 with alterations
in mid C19. May incorporate some elements of framing. Two storeys and attic
house, stucco faced on brick, with 2 storey rear wings. Steep gable end old
tile roofs with coped gable on plain kneelers to Park Street corner. Three
bay elevation to Park Street, centre blind on first floor. One window to
gable end return and one on wing. Ground floor to both elevations has C1860-70
public house front with panelled pilasters surrounded by coupled brackets
in frieze supporting deeply moulded cornice. Leaded windows. Plain bar entrance
set across corner and secondary bar doors. A further service and coach house
wing extends from rear wing along Park Street with projecting narrow gabled
break towards street. Brick dentil eaves.

Listing NGR: SP0752286866
Click to expand...

Photos from this afternoon.





 
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