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Birmingham Trams

motorman-mike said:
And now for something completely different!
City of Birmingham Tramways Company Steam Tram Locomotive No.10 is seen here after electrification of steam routes still earning a living as a tug for a rail grinding truck. Wonder if people in their beds along the old steam routes thought it was a ghost tram puffing down the street in the dead of night when the rail grinder was under way.
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That contraption (presumably steam-powered, fed by the pipe leading from the engine) was probably used in the pre-electric days too. It seems to be constructed on one of the trailer car bogies. Electric powered rail grinders soon replaced these outdated machines, though.
Steam tram locos were retained at Hockley after the cessation of steam trams for shunting the cable trams about in the depot (and no doubt towing them home if the cable broke, ending play for the day!)
 
john70 said:
You can still ride on a tram every day at Seaton in East Devon, over about a 3 mile route which is very scenic.
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Nice to see an old Birmingham destination (Service Extra) in use on the postcard!
Some of the Seaton trams are new build, and disability-compliant with wheelchair facilities whereas some of the older ones are actually constructed from vintage tram bodies found in use as sheds and summer houses, shortened and narrowed as necessary to their new use - No 19 for instance was built from the lower deck of Exeter 19, and is in the Exeter livery.
 
apologies if this has been posted before...

birmingham central tramway building..old square 1890..the women are walking round the proposed site of the winter gardens..

pic courtesy of carl chinn:)
 
Probably one for Astoness and those familiar with the old Aston tram routes. Here we see open balcony car 452 running Depot Only. It's location is not known but that looks like the Central Fire Station clock tower in the far background so my guess is that 452 is in Newtown Row heading for Miller Street Depot. Please can anyone identify the surroundings to confirm this. I reckon it would have been in the early postwar years from the style of the lorries, the 'H' for Fire Hydrant on the shop wall and the white markings on the traction pole on the corner there.
 
Hi Mike.

I feel the picture is a probably the 3,3X or 6 going up Stafford St the opposite way from Central Fire Station it would have passed Harrison & Sheldons.

I don't think its Newton Row the road isn't wide enough and I think the picture shows single track which Stafford street was one way only to City.

Ray



motorman-mike said:
Probably one for Astoness and those familiar with the old Aston tram routes. Here we see open balcony car 452 running Depot Only. It's location is not known but that looks like the Central Fire Station clock tower in the far background so my guess is that 452 is in Newtown Row heading for Miller Street Depot. Please can anyone identify the surroundings to confirm this. I reckon it would have been in the early postwar years from the style of the lorries, the 'H' for Fire Hydrant on the shop wall and the white markings on the traction pole on the corner there.
Click to expand...
 
Ray Griffiths said:
Hi Mike.

I feel the picture is a probably the 3,3X or 6 going up Stafford St the opposite way from Central Fire Station it would have passed Harrison & Sheldons.

I don't think its Newton Row the road isn't wide enough and I think the picture shows single track which Stafford street was one way only to City.

Ray
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Thanks Ray, that sounds right. Probably the conductor had put up Depot Only for leaving the city centre after setting down the passengers that can be seen on the lower deck of 452. If running to depot, no passengers would be on board. The depot could then be Witton. I have desparately tried to read the name over the shop on the right. It looks like Haddon & Co. Perhaps if it is someone will know of it.
Mike
 
Great stuff, I knew the location wouldn't be a mystery for long with the knowledge there is here amongst the Forum members. Now I can catalogue this photo in my collection. Thank you Ray and Terry.
Mike
 
Just to confirm, I am sure the view is at the Coleshill Street end of Stafford Street. You can just see tram tracks crossing in the very bottom foreground, where thesingle track ran from James Watt Street into Coleshill Street en route to Saltley. the light-tinted building on the far right was the Corner Cafe, which about eight years later became the Shah Jahan Restaurant, which I remember well.
Tram 452, incidentally, is interesting as one of three built at Kyotts Lake Road Works (then also a running depot) by the City of Birmingham Tramways Company in 1903 to supplement the first batch of electric cars on the Bristol Road routes. They may have been found too long, and one of them was passed to the sister company South Staffordshire Tramways for some reason, when the Corporation finally took over the company depots and rolling stock in 1911. The remaining two, 451 and 452 were the longest cars to be operated by the Corporation and incidentally the eldest, being built the year before the first Corporation tram route ran to Aston in 1904.
They were extensively modified and upgraded in their long life, being converted to single-deckers during World War 1 and later back to double-deck with improved staircases and top cover, but with open balconies as seen in the photo.
Peter Walker
 
Peter,
Thank you for the extra information on 452. To get a better impression of it's length here is a photo of sister car 451 working the 78 route.
[with acknowledgements to the famous Birmingham tram photographer W.A.Camwell.]

Your recollection of the Corner Cafe is borne out by the fact that behind the 'Hours of Opening' notice on the door they are advertising Faggots (& Peas no doubt).
Mike
 
Something a little different, shown at Stechford in war time grey, my uncle had a shop in the parade behind the tram at this time.
 
motorman-mike said:
Peter,
Thank you for the extra information on 452. To get a better impression of it's length here is a photo of sister car 451 working the 78 route.
[with acknowledgements to the famous Birmingham tram photographer W.A.Camwell
Mike
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Were these the pair of trams known as the 'Titanics' because of their length?..............Mal.
 
Yes they were Mal, funnily enough I nearly posted that information before. Somewhere I have a pic of one of them as a single decker with a trailer, if it turns up soon I'll post it.
Someone from the tramways department had seen this type of operation abroad and wanted to try it in Birmingham, but it was unsuccessful as 2 conductors were required and the total passenger capacity was only about that of a double decker.
Also the motor car would have to run round the trailer at terminus points, unless like at Rednal and Navigation St, there was a loop arrangement.
I've also heard that the single deck experiment was connected with a plan to run trams underground in the city centre, and only single deckers would do - don't know how true that is though.
 
In case you have difficulty finding it Lloyd here is one of 451 as a single decker with trailer seen on the 10 route.
Mike
 
Thanks Mike, yes that's the view I have (somewhere!)
As can be seen, even the entrances were altered to continental style, narrow and both sides, front and rear of both cars. Quite how the safety arrangements worked, so the driver didn't move off with someone boarding or alighting, I don't know but presumably he would need the 'all clear' signal (two bells) from both cars.
 
Does anyone have a picture of the tram depot bordered by Alcester High St / Silver St / Vicarage Rd in Kings Heath? Alternatively does anyone know of a book with such a picture in it?
 
The depot at Silver Street was built in the 1880s for steam trams, which worked the routes until the Corporation took them over on 1 January 1907. The Council electrified the line, and so the electric service began on on 1 January 1907, working from the brand-new depot at Trafalgar Road. From the very scholastic book written by C A Mayou in 1974, I understand that the Silver Street Depot was used for electric cars from 1 April 1908 until 31 December 1911. I've never seen a picture of Silver Street depot with electric cars, and I can't imagine that any photos survive. There are a few pictures from the steam days. Here is one, a photo taken in 1889.
Peter Walker
 
that pub was on the junction of coventry rd& cattel rd near b,ham city ground. i am pretty sure of that as i lived on st andrews in the late 60s, i think the greenway was on the next corner up coventry rd & greenway st
 
Thank you very much, Peter W, for the very full information & the 1889 photo. I love very scholastic work so will follow up C.A.Mayou. Could you clarify is the photo of a different Kings Heath Depot & if so where? Which areawas the Trafalgar Depot in?
My Great Grandfather worked as a steam tram guard in 1904 & I am looking into his work background.
 
There are a few photo,s and a little info. on the Silver St. depot in a book by Barrie Geens, called From Kings Heath to the Country. The Trafalgar Rd. Depot was on The Moseley Rd. in Moseley.
 
Thank you for that information, John70. As there are only 3 online booksellers ofering the book for sale & I did not care for the delivery periods I am ordering a copy of Barrie Green's book direct from the publisher Kidderminster Railway Museum. At least any profit will go direct to the enthusiasts.
 
You are right there Froth but then again what year:)
The Palace opened in 1912
 
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froth..i am no expert on erdington but the tree on the right..would that be where the church is...

Lyn:):)
 
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