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Birmingham Steam Buses 1824-1910.

Mein Liebers Gott der fools der wrong Taxi hat senden. Ve haf other vays of getting you home so, Herr Molesvorth, it vill be by Dampf autobus.
Well, would you believe it, it's our old friend the Paris - Berlin - Paris steam coach relegated to local bus work in Berlin.
 
Well thank you all for your touching displays of regard during my recent gout of unwellness. Where's me bathchair :MEziek:

In the haze of my delirium I further explored the Wolverhampton History & Heritage Website and it has a wealth of detail on vehicular activity in the Black Country area better accessed in our context via https://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/Museum/Transport/transport.htm On buses it includes AJS, Electric Construction Company, Guy Motors, L.V.L. & Sunbeam which I have not fully explored yet. I include a pic of the forward looking ECC battery-powered 14 seater with 4 wheel steering.

Psst - Motorman, as a fellow fan of articulation, I have a better pic of the 1908 2-Ton Sedan Coalite special if you're interested....
 
Talking about the Black country, here is a nice steamy thing from the area. A beautiful machine delivering Chubbs safes. Unfortunately the picture goes accross a join in the pages, but I think the name on it is The Pancras Iron Work Co Ltd Motor Wagon Builders, though the c in Pancras is not visible because of the join ( i have tried to bend it back as much as possible to see)
Mike

early_deliveries_of_chubbs_safes.jpg
 
Guten Tag, meine Damen und Herren (where are all the Damen, by the way?). My self-education of the Deutches language never did progress very far (where do they get the idea that there can be three sexes? And combining all of a sentence into one word? Pfft! I think I'll limit my vocality to just three languages - English, Black Country and Profane). I have also, by experiment, discovered that several engineering processes can improve one's ability to use words to a deeper and fuller extent - try banging your thumb with a hammer, for instance.

To return to the subject of steam propulsion, (and apropos of 'la langue allemande', I have long admired the German description of a fast twin-screw steam vessel - "Eine doppellschrauben Schnelldampfer"), I wondered the possibility of steam turbines as power units for road vehicles, their use on railway engines being well known (the LMSR 'Turbomotive', for instance). A short research showed that indeed, as early as 1672 Verbiest's 'toy' steam carriage used elementary turbine principles, the first (stationary) design of turbine dating back to Hero of Alexandria in c.130 BC, but the developed idea as we understand it today was only patented and built by (Later Sir) Charles Algernon Parsons KCB (1854-1931) in 1884. In the 1894 the "Steam Turbine Company" was formed, and in 1897 the famous public demonstration of Parsons' ship Turbinia' at the Royal Naval Review at Spithead occurred. The small (100 ft) vessel fitted with three Parsons parallel flow turbines in a high, medium and low pressure sequence, each driving a propellor shaft having three three-bladed propellors, steamed at 34.5 knots through the ranks of the Navy's finest ships of the line, a speed no other vessel of the time cold obtain. The old, cumbersome and heavy reciprocating ship's engines in every other powered vessel was immediately obsolete. More on Turbinia here.

Turbines are prefectly suited to marine and stationary (i.e.electricity generation) use, where constant speed and load are observed, but with these demands ever-changing in rail and road use are far less efficient despite the speeds they can reach. Also they are non-reversable thereby requiring extra units or gearing.
The use of a Parsons turbine to drive a steel rolling mill in tandem with a 100 ton flywheel solved the problem of changing rotational and loading demand, at the expense of the weight of the gearing and flywheel, the latter being used to store latent energy for times of peak load. Such solutions are not possible in moving vehicles, however, and steam (or later, gas) turbined road vehicles have made no sigificant influence to development trends, despite several manufacturers' experimental designs.
Here's the best known of those, the 1968 Leyland gas-turbine lorry seen still in working order at a historic vehicle show at Gaydon earlier this year.

[video=youtube;d5aYenmaP9E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5aYenmaP9E[/video]
 
... I think I'll limit my vocality to just three languages - English, Black Country and Profane...

...Don't forget your Latin Lloyd! Verba volant, scripta manent. Lovely piece of research on the Turbine, I am sure there are more examples. Does the Bluebird-Proteus CN7 count? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluebird-Proteus_CN7#Engine

Mikejee - Lovely pic of safe delivery. Reminds me that George H Chubb of New St was the first telephone owner in Brum on 18 Sep 1879 and one of the first Directors of the Birmingham Telephone company along with Mr Piercy & that I had promised some further shock revelations on the https://forum.birminghamhistory.co.uk/showthread.php?t=31473 thread! The vehicle doesn't advertise the telephone number on the side - but as it would probably be just "1" then I guess there would be little point. Actually I think it was direct connected without Exchange at least initially
 
I've found evidence of the gas-turbine coach that visited Digbeth in my eary days there, which although capable of high speeds also had an American-sized hunger for fuel, 90+ gallons being consumed between Dover Docks and Birmingham. I had a look inside it, but on a strictly 'no touch of the controls' basis. I remember it sounded like a jet aircraft starting up when moved.

Re early telephones - a recent peruse of 1920s phone books showed that often a district's telephone number '1' was allocated to the local "call office", usually at the post office.
 
Wow - that Turbocruiser was something I'd have liked a ride on. I see it was the US's attempt on economy/environmentally friendliness!

Having Lloyd's post on Turbine propulsion and remembering that we have already discussed some of the joys of aeolipile steam jets and rockets, I wonder if there are any Wankels out there? (!) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_engine#Rotary_steam_engines

As, ahem, an add on, I wonder if the Steam Plough I posted earlier is the first representation of the Turbocharge feedback system?
 
... the 1968 Leyland gas-turbine lorry seen still in working order at a historic vehicle show at Gaydon earlier this year ...

A rare and wonderful (if noisy) beast, Lloyd. Thanks for that. I liked the man in the yellow fluoro jacket doing "red flag" duty! ;)
 
No, mate, haven't got up to the 200s yet. :headhit: Just did a "search thread" on "Lear". Three weeks ago seems like another life on the BSB steam journey. Well, its past Thylacine's bedtime. Goodnight all! zzz
 
Intrigued by Mike's picture of the Chubb Lock Co's wagon, I've searched for the maker, the St Pancras Iron Work Company Ltd. Other than finding a spiral staircase of their manufacture for sale, and a mention of them 'building traction engines at Holloway', London in 1904-6, of which none are known to survive, and mention of their sale of former premises (used as a "Foundry and Iron Bedstead Manufactory") in 1875 at York Rd, Kings Cross by auction there is little listed of them until their liquidation in 1916 and striking from the companies register in 1920. The picture is probably taken at the now-redeveloped Wednesfield Rd, Willenhall, Chubb safe works rather than at the still extant Fryer St Wolverhampton plant, if not at their London works (wherever that was!)
 
Good finds Lloyd leaving the feeling of wanting more.

I have been similarly unable to find much in the way of Wankel vehicles apart from the Mazda Parkway Rotary 26 in the 1970s (sorry to bring dayglo 70s beige into these hallowed halls). Something about the precision machining and quality of bearings makes me think this is likely to be the earliest...
 
Intrigued by Mike's picture of the Chubb Lock Co's wagon, I've searched for the maker, the St Pancras Iron Work Company Ltd. Other than finding a spiral staircase of their manufacture for sale, and a mention of them 'building traction engines at Holloway', London in 1904-6, of which none are known to survive, and mention of their sale of former premises (used as a "Foundry and Iron Bedstead Manufactory") in 1875 at York Rd, Kings Cross by auction there is little listed of them until their liquidation in 1916 and striking from the companies register in 1920. The picture is probably taken at the now-redeveloped Wednesfield Rd, Willenhall, Chubb safe works rather than at the still extant Fryer St Wolverhampton plant, if not at their London works (wherever that was!)


Lloyd, a little more info on the St. Pancras Ironworks Ltd. Their first "undertype" steam wagons went in to production c.1903, then were radically redesigned in 1907. Apparently this design was considered out of date by 1911 when they sold their wagon manufacturing rights to the Steam Car Syndicate Ltd, London NW10. Other than that few wagons were then produced by S.C.S Ltd I have been unable to find out anything further.
 
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Lloyd
The picture of the steam wagon came from a book which was supposed to be about Wolverhampton. On reading the text, it states that safes were made in the London factory after 1837 until 1899, when a new factory was opened . from 1899-1908 safes were made both in London and Wolves. So it could be either place
Mike
 
...Don't forget your Latin Lloyd! Verba volant, scripta manent. Lovely piece of research on the Turbine, I am sure there are more examples. Does the Bluebird-Proteus CN7 count? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluebird-Proteus_CN7#Engine

Mikejee - Lovely pic of safe delivery. Reminds me that George H Chubb of New St was the first telephone owner in Brum on 18 Sep 1879 and one of the first Directors of the Birmingham Telephone company along with Mr Piercy & that I had promised some further shock revelations on the https://forum.birminghamhistory.co.uk/showthread.php?t=31473 thread! The vehicle doesn't advertise the telephone number on the side - but as it would probably be just "1" then I guess there would be little point. Actually I think it was direct connected without Exchange at least initially

Telephone number 1 would have been on the original manual exchange. Strowger exchanges did not like numbers beginning with 1 which is why there were never any letters on the 1 key on the telephone dial (now keypad). That is why extension numbers on private internal telephones always start with 200 or 2000 even today. Years ago I visited Mather & Platt in Manchester and in reception they had a copy of Manchester's first telephone directory showing their telephone number as Manchester 3.
 
I know during WWI due to the shortage of men to conduct the buses that women took on the role but I never realised they recruited them so young!
Here we have what from the lack of ID may well be a second hand Clarkson steamer belonging to the famous Barton fleet of Chilwell, Notts, in our neighbouring East Midlands. (Photo undated and probably not WWI)
 
Telephone number 1 would have been on the original manual exchange. Strowger exchanges did not like numbers beginning with 1 which is why there were never any letters on the 1 key on the telephone dial (now keypad). That is why extension numbers on private internal telephones always start with 200 or 2000 even today. Years ago I visited Mather & Platt in Manchester and in reception they had a copy of Manchester's first telephone directory showing their telephone number as Manchester 3.

David - you are right of course and rather than me fumble for excuses along the line of generalising for effect I suggest we pick up on the Telephone Service in Birmingham Thread https://forum.birminghamhistory.co.uk/showthread.php?t=31473 :peace:
 
Ok, still trudging thru https://www.chrishodgephotos.co.uk/pagev/veterantruckphotos.htm and learning more as I go. Please do dip in - it does seem a lucky dip. There are 27 hits on Steam, 5 on Post/Telegraphs a TS and various unnamed and the following:
* turner miesse wagon - looks an uninspiring start to be honest...
* Turner steam car for private mail service of Maharajah of Gwalior - and if it's good enough for him....
* Milnes Daimler & St Pancras at Diggle near Oldham - Deutche über alles natch (how do u do umlauts again? Update: oh yeah....)
* St Pancras lorry with outsize drain pipe - enough said
* beautiful night time study of GPO Dennis - specially for you GPO/Phone buffs out there - looking at you David & LLoyd...
 
Good moaning all! Lots of lovely steamers to drool over this morning. Thanks, everyone. I'd like to say I've been busy on the index, but actually I've been "twiddling my thumbs". ;)
 
Nice shots. Note the driver of the St Pancras carrying the large pipe - he looks remarkably similar to the chap driving Chubb's one in Wolverhampton!

The Turner Miesse carries an early Wolverhampton trade plate - 'DA-K 2'. The third letter usually is the initial of the firm the plate is supplied to - so who was "K"?
 
The Lifu "Pioneer" in Brum June 1898.

While you blokes (where are the Damen?) are being so industrious, might I remind you of the Lifu "Pioneer" which allegedly passed through Birmingham in late June 1898 on its way from Cowes, Isle of Wight, to Mansfield, Nottinghamshire (see posts #626, #629, #630).

I would love to find some concrete (or paper or cyber) evidence of the passage of this remarkable charabanc through Brum. Did it parade through the city before admiring crowds "trailing clouds of glory" (stanza V)? Did it sneak through in the middle of the night, leaving "crop circles" like a UFO for the locals to scratch their heads over the next morning? Did it chicken out (in fear of the dreaded Brum Watch Committee) and take a roundabout route through the outer suburbs? Hard facts and sheer speculation are equally welcome! ;)
 
Hamlet (III, i, 65-68): "To sleep, perchance to dream - ay, there's the rub." That's some night you had Thylacine! Must try a nip of your "Ovaltine" or "Steam Riser" sometime!
 
... may well be a second hand Clarkson steamer belonging to the famous Barton fleet of Chilwell, Notts, in our neighbouring East Midlands. (Photo undated and probably not WWI)

Motorman, that's a lovely picture! Charles F Klapper's Golden Age of Buses (London: Routledge & Kegan Paul, 1978) states (re Barton Transport Ltd): "... after which they never looked back, despite an unfortunate experience in 1907 with a Clarkson steam vehicle which was unsuited to limestone water". Can anyone discover anything more about Barton's steam experience?

On the subject of the Barton womenfolk, the same author says: "The Barton service attracted national interest when the Daily Mirror of 3 July 1913 had an illustrated article headed 'Girl as Chauffeur of Omnibus; sisters as conductors'. The girl was Miss Kate Barton, then aged 21, and the vehicle a single-deck Ryknield." Is it possible to access this Daily Mirror article on line?

A page from the "Ladies First" website adds some interesting details: "Kate Barton. First woman bus conductress in Britain in 1909. She worked on the Long Eaton, Nottingham route and her two sisters, Ruth and Edith, joined the firm. When on duty they wore long green coats and Kate wore a male conductors peaked cap. Her sisters preferred to go bare-headed as they were proud of their long hair. In 1918 Kate married and left the buses and her sisters left shortly afterwards."

Motorman, if your picture is indeed of the Barton 1907 Clarkson, the driver is probably one of founder Thomas Henry Barton's sons (just possibly of T H Barton himself, a youthful 41-year-old). The little girl "clippie" looks too young to be Kate, Ruth or Edith, but might be one of "Old Man" Barton's younger daughters or even a granddaughter.
 
Good Morning, O stripey one ... can you do both? And then change hands? No, thought not.

Yes I can, but only while sleeping. (I bet you didn't know that Thylacines had thumbs! ;)). My younger sister Jennifer Thylacine can touch her elbows together behind her back (without straining): I've never met anyone else who can do that!

"Thumb Fu": beautiful! The lesson is: on the BSB thread, click every link, no matter how innocent-looking, you never know what you may find! :cool:
 
As F.U, emulating Richard III, would say: "You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Cards#.22I_couldn.27t_possibly_comment.22

The BBC certainly seems to be going downhill these days with stoned wallabies, and radar controlled cats. Now LLoyd has introduced us, I intend to get my news feed from the uncyclopedia, especially as they accurately cover the recent Wimpole Stitcher Strike in Motormanland https://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/UnNews:French_wimple_stitchers_announce_strike
 
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