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Birmingham Steam Buses 1824-1910.

Yes, David, that would have been a terrific journey (literally)! I wonder how long that particular service was in operation?
 
Thylacine said:

I'm undecided as to whether Penfold and Molesworth are really ill or just steamgooning (I used to be indecisive, but these days I'm not sure what I am).

If you blokes are indeed unwell, take good care of youselves and enjoy a speedy recovery. If BSBers continue to fall like ninepins, were going to be "up S**t Creek without a paddle" as the Aussie vernacular so delicately puts it. (Find that on Google Maps! :D)
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Curses! Foiled in my attempt to escape to my hideaway in the country!
 
[You blokes can't be all that sick!]

Here's an early depiction of a steam omnibus in a political cartoon. I was lucky enough to find a contemporary "explanation", which at least spells out the "speech bubbles". I've also appended a list of those caricatured. The picture is:
"The Hopposition 'Buses!" by H B (John Doyle 1797-1868). From Political Sketches of H B (number 370). Engraved by Ducôté and Stephens (70 St Martins Lane, London).18 January 1835.​
And the description, from The Court Journal: Gazette of the Fashionable World (Saturday 31 January 1835) page 76:
In 370, we see a steam-carriage, and another vehicle driven in the old-fashioned style. In the former are the great agitator and his tail, the cad crying out to John Bull, as a passenger, "You are not such a silly cheil as to go with them old screws? eh, you'll never get to your journey's end. Ours is the new grand junction Steam Omnibus, constructed upon scientific and feelosophical principles — warranted to go at race-horse speed, and no stopping." — On the other side of John Bull, stands the cad (the D—) of the old-fashioned omnibus, driven by Sir R—, exclaiming — "Dont trust 'em, Sir, and their new-fangled machinery. Can't get it on at all without being kept in constant hot water, and sure to blow up in the end. With us you'll be more safe and comfortable; — careful driver, steady train'd horses, and rate of going much faster than formerly."​
And the dramatis personæ:
John Bull: national personification of Great Britain (particularly England).
The Great Agitator: Daniel O'Connell (1775-1847). Radical.
The D—: Arthur Wellesley (1769-1852) Duke of Wellington. Tory.
Sir R—: Sir Robert Peel (1788-1850). Tory.
(Henry) William Lamb (1779-1848) Whig.
Lord John Russell (1792-1878). Whig.
Henry John Temple (1784-1865) Viscount Palmerston. Whig.​
 
Aidan said:
Motorman - Sounds expensive, but would like more info once you are fully awake, thanks

My pleasure Aiden, the firm only traded for two years1906-1908. Based in Preston, at the Olympia show in 1908 they exhibited a 3 ton chassis for freight or passenger application (which has to be the very one in your photo). It was oil fired with a "semi-flash" boiler developing 35hp through a vertical inline T-head engine and chain final drive. Unusual was a condenser instead of a radiator and exhaust gas was directed back beneath the chassis frame giving it the look of a bonneted petrol vehicle. Sadly it didn't catch on, hence the demise of the company.
Mike
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Cheers Motorman - rare and sexy machine, I can't believe it didn't catch on - imagine turning to your co-driver/stoker/partner (Celia Johnson natch) and as you are wiping a cinder from her eye you both begin to say "semi-flash boiler". You look at her, she looks at you, impasse.

Thylacine - you know how to coax a malingerer back to the front line - with a vintage cartoon! I am glad you found the explanation but as usual I don't get it but the picture is enough. John Bull is putting it on a bit tho ain't he?

I did do a basic search for Pioneer & Steam in The Times, Birmingham Daily Post & Berrow's but nothing apart from the attached explanation of the Workman's Compensation Act in The Times, Friday, Jul 01, 1898 pg. 9; Issue 35557 col C.png
 
Because it's a bit late to plough back through this exalted thread at this time of night, this offering may already have been posted before, if so. soreeee...
Wonder how the roof passengers gain access to their seats?
 
Aidan said:
... (Celia Johnson natch) ...

... as usual I don't get it ...
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Good morning class! Thanks for maintaining steam pressure while I was snoring stentoriously. [I'm gonna bust me foofle valve one of these nights. ;)]

I LOVE the 1945 movie "Brief Encounter", not least for its steamy railway scenes! Fine direction by David Lean, and wonderfully restrained "British" performances by Celia Johnson and Trevor Howard. The 1974 re-make (by Alan Bridges), despite the presence of the great Sophia Loren and Richard Burton, wasn't nearly as good (no railways, and the outcome didn't fit so well with the times).

I almost never "get" those early 19th century political cartoons. And they are never very funny, are they? In this case, I suppose it's just the age-old Left versus Right argument. With the Left (on the left!) in the new-fangled steam omnibus (heading for disaster), and the Right in the old-fangled horse omnibus (steady as she goes). The fascinating thing is that Shillibeer had only introduced the omnibus to London less than six years previously, so in a way both buses are "new-fangled"!

[Actually the "bus" on the right looks more like a hackney carriage!]
 
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Nice One!

motorman-mike said:
... this offering may already have been posted before, if so. soreeee...
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Ten points, Motorman, for that excellent print! (We haven't seen it before.) Great quality AND content: the horses are very well drawn. I share Molesworth's curiosity as to its source.

:thumbsup:
 
Aidan said:
Lovely! Really clear and large - any idea where it came from?
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Aiden, I don't know where it originates from, but it is in a book that has supplied many of my contributions to this thread. "Buses,Trolleys & Trams" by C.S.Dunbar. The caption states "What might have been : artists impression of the possible effects of motor traction, 1898". I think it smacks of the type of cartoon seen in the Punch magazine.
Here are two more illustrations from BT&T that are enough to give you the vapeurs. Pass ze smelling salts quickly pleez De Dions ave escaped. (Trust the French to be over the top with an artic demonstrator).
On a serious note, the two axle version bears a family resemblance to the omnibus shown in Thylacine's post #625 although I would have classed it more as a international steam coach (Eurosteamlines) if it truly operated between Paris and Berlin.
 
Please Sir!

I was whiling away an enjoyable hour, leafing through Punch (as you do), searching unsuccessfully for Motorman's excellent 1898 steam bus picture (post #649), when I came across this cartoon which "rang a bell" (cf Motorman's post #604). :cool:
 
Thylacine said:
...I LOVE the 1945 movie "Brief Encounter", not least for its steamy railway scenes! Fine direction by David Lean, and wonderfully restrained "British" performances by Celia Johnson and Trevor Howard....
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..and written by Noël Coward of course https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il8B6E9FzSE and filmed at Carnforth Station - it has everything! It has recently had a digital restoration which is superb and one to look out for on the next foofle around the shops along with Asquith's Importance of Being Earnest.

I don't usually like Victoria Wood too much but she did do an amusing parody https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajC4Az4wscc&feature=related

De Dions were a Euro monster of motor vehicles and lovely contributions by Motorman. As the British Government has just been fined for not flying the Euro rag/flag https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ne...ussels-for-failing-to-fly-EU-flag-report.html perhaps we should follow suit and institute a "Passport to Birmingham" or at least this thread topic.

Lovely 1897 Punch cartoon entry in the last post - It is usually possible to understand the Punch Cartoonist if not break into a smile as on this occasion :)
 
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It's always nice to see this lively discussion. Thanks for all the contributions.
Meanwhile I have done some delving and produced a lengthy piece on steam tram history. Hope you find it interesting.
Peter
 
Always good to hear from you, Peter. Don't be a stranger! ;)

I'm looking forward to reading your Steam Tram History.
 
Birmingham Steam Trams 1884-1907.

I've just had a quick browse through Peter W's "Birmingham steam trams" thread. It is a well researched and beautifully illustrated account of nearly 25 years of successful steam-powered public transport on the streets of Birmingham. Highly recommended to all our readers! Thanks, Peter! :cool:
 
The Turner Manufacturing Company based at Wulfruna Works in Lever Street Wolverhampton acquired the manufacturing rights of a well established vehicle from the Brussels based company of J. Miesse in 1902. The resultant vehicles have a face like someone set fire to it and tried to put it out with a stoking shovel (seems strangely familiar...) and an example is housed at the Black Country Museum. It had a three cylinder, single acting engine (steam only admitted above the piston) with a paraffin-fired flash boiler of the Serpollet type. The company also built some steam-powered commercial vehicles but unknown whether this included charabancs or omnibuses.

Lots of photos (if you are of strong disposition) and details at https://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/Museum/Transport/Cars/Turner.htm
 
Re: Birmingham Steam Trams 1884-1907.

Extolling the British virtues of balance I share the fruit of my unsuccessful labours today:

Still working through the wonderful but eccentrically catalogued https://www.chrishodgephotos.co.uk/pagev/veterantruckphotos.htm I found an intriguing-looking London-registered vehicle, advertising "Hyde's Aesthetic Seeds for Songbirds" was catalogued as a Knox air-cooled 1910. I got a little excited (it doesn't take much, bit of a hair-trigger) that some of the Knox configurations might have been developed into the form of the mystery BMO (and poss Warings) vehicle. In the adopted international ethos we have cultivated on this thread, I decided to leaf through the Early American Automobiles site at https://earlyamericanautomobiles.com/navigation.htm - some truly way-out buses, trucks, cars and other goodies.

The Knox engine had the distinctive feature of the heat being dissipated through a multitude of 2-inch steel studs screwed into the cylinder barrel and head. This earned the cars the nickname 'Old Porcupine' although the firm referred to the cars as the "Waterless Knox". Harry A Knox produced Horizontally-opposed twin-cylinder four-wheeled cars in 1902 from Springfield Massachusetts. Tiller steering was retained until 1905. Successful commercial vehicles had been introduced in 1904 but when the cars became water-cooled in 1908 individuality was lost, and large horsepower cars offered at increasing prices inexorably led to the demise of the business in 1912. The name lived on in large trucks for the US Military such as the Church-like 3-wheel Knox artillery tractor. The cataloguing for the Hyde's vehicle must be wrong as if it is Knox it must be in its golden age of 1904-1908. Nothing conclusive of course but wanted to share my wanderings.

Are the BMO, Warings & Hyde's vehicles linked? Are they Electric, Porcupine, Steam or other? More work to do....
 
As a bit of light relief (!) I've just started a thread on Devenish-Phibbs which you may wish to catch if you appreciate the attached park bench memorial. Hope I get such a Dedication, perhaps on a bench overlooking the Lickeys
 
The Dumbel family sold Turner Manufacuring to DANA, an American company from Ohio sometime around 1970. Dana manufacture axles and other parts of the drive chain for motor vehicles worldwide.
 
Top of the Tasmanian morning, BSB classmates! Train-spanking MPs! Ah, the many and variegated wonders of the BHF! :D

[I'm feeling a little guilty: due to bone idleness, I've only covered two pages (i e 80 posts) of the BSB thread for the much-needed INDEX. So the thread is growing faster than the index. I've got a job for life! ;)]
 
Re: Steam Carriages: A French Point of View.

I am currently on holiday in the French Alps and consequently parted from my books. Father Verbiest S.J. published his account of his toy steam carriage "invented to amuse the Emperor Cam Hy" in his book Astronomia Europaiae printed in Dillingen 1685. When I get home to my copy I will post a photograph of the relevant page.
 
Aidan said:
The Turner Manufacturing Company based at Wulfruna Works in Lever Street Wolverhampton acquired the manufacturing rights of a well established vehicle from the Brussels based company of J. Miesse in 1902.

Aiden, apparently the commercial Miesse you mention was a 1.1/2 tonner in producton until petrol engined vehicles were built in 1907. Of interest here is that Miesse built buses and lorries and fitted Gardner 5LW and 6LW diesel engines built under licence from 1932 until German wartime occupation when production went to gas producer powered lorries. After the war only 5 to 18 ton vehicles were produced (some, but not buses, fitted with 8LW engines). Production of Gardner engines came to an end with the demise of the company in 1972. Like BCT/WMT in Birmingham they knew a good diesel lump when they saw one.
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Re: Steam Carriages: A French Point of View.

Keithfletcher said:
... When I get home to my copy I will post a photograph of the relevant page.
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Thanks for the postcard, Keith! I'm sure you're enjoying your holiday. Looking forward to seeing Verbiest's account of his "toy" steam carriage. (I think it was a serious invention, so perhaps we should rather call it a "model"! :))
 
I kid you not! Many locals refer to Kidderminster as 'Kidder' so I was chuffed to find out there was a Kidder Motor Vehicle Co. manufacturing steam buses and lorries from 1901 to 1902 and strangely again in 1920. Considerable disappointment then followed when I saw the company address was New Haven, Connecticut, USA. Ah well, if only....as I look thoughtfully in to me glass of Scottish Steam Spirit.
 
Scottish Steam Spirit? Shurely Vapeur D'Armagnac when schkiing in shwitzerland? :3some: Sho rise the Shteam... :3some:
 
Du shprechen sher guten fur mich mein Dampfer kamerad. Haben sie schnapps mit knockwurst bitte? (dons little felt hat with feather on side but draws line at short leather trousers). I vill call za Dampfer taxi to vait outside as you vill be in no state to valk home Herr Von Molesvorth:D
 
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