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Birmingham Steam Buses 1824-1910.

Following up on my theory that CDMO would have been taken over by Bristol Omnibus Company, I have been researching this.
Following link gives a reference to the Bristol Route Map of 1928 from which you will see that there is a gap between Cirencester and Fairford. To get from Cirencester to Fairford and Lechlade by Bristol buses would have ment a change at Swindon.

https://www.bvbg.org.uk/images/BT&CC%20historical/1928%20map/1928%20map.jpg

Later maps also show this gap. However I have discovered that on 20th September 1959 Bristol route 67 Swindon-Lechlade-Fairford was extended to Cirencester.
 
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Is it me or is this thread veering off topic again? I ask merely for information, as Oscar Wilde might say.

The postings of Traction Engines prompted me to look into the wonderful world of Steam Ploughs and I attach an early pic. Drags were used, also a system of pulleys with engine at one end and terminal at the other end of the field.

I also attach a lovely pic of the Critchley Norris steamer sportster. And to add a continental flavour (especially for Motorman) here is a Darrracq Serpollet in Paris - as also used by the ever French-loving Scotch, see https://www.scran.ac.uk/database/results.php?QUICKSEARCH=1&search_term=steam+bus (nice pic of William Symington on there if we ever cover him) And back to Brum with the Holders Brewery's Stewart Wagon

Last 3 pics from a wonderful collection that I don't think has been on here before https://www.chrishodgephotos.co.uk/pagev/veterantruckphotos.htm
 
My sincere thanks to David, Mike and Sir Thylacine for unearthing more about the C & D.M.O.Co. Ltd. and I of course welcome references to the Bristol Tramways/Omnibus Co. and in particular my hometown Bath Tramways Motor Co. Thanks Lloyd for showing how little the pub has changed in Wedmore although it no longer serves up any Ushers Trowbridge Ales, mores the pity. But Molesworth kicks me under the desk and hisses like a blowing safety valve in my ear something about scoff bread, oh sorry, off thread. Coupled with me tinitus I now have a steam bus as well as a Rednal tram on top notch whining round in me head. I shall for medicinal purposes you understand, pour myself a stiff measure of Scottish steam spirit and may the force desert you Molesworth for posting another haw hee haw vapeur omnibus to make things worse. "They said cheer up old son, things could be worse, so I did and sure enough they were"
 
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Seabird said:
Don't forget the Sentinel

In response to Seabird I have great pleasure in not forgetting the Sentinal by including this fine example operating as a Newcastle Corporation "bendibus" due to the wartime shortage of motor buses there in 1918.
Click to expand...
 
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Good grief, Aiden Molesworth, that was quick. I didn't think the force would drop you that quick and necessitate a new avatarlol
 
:D

There was a disturbance in the force that turned me into this twisted avatar you see at the moment (think it came from Naboo...).

A swift Vapeur d'Armagnac (ah, the eau de vie - make it it a large one - only to join you), and I'm sure I'll be right. I may be some time....

Is that a Dames Blanches or a Fée I see before me?
 
Good morning, Steamgoons, and thanks for keeping the steam up while I was sleeping fitfully! ;)

Oscar Wilde, tinnitus, nitrate, white ladies; also Cirencester and the odd steam vehicle or two. The BSB thread has the lot! :grinsmile:
 
The Darracq-Serpollet SGSB 1907-1912.

Aidan said:
... here is a Darrracq Serpollet in Paris ...
Click to expand...

Great picture, Molesworth! The Darracq-Serpollet steam bus loomed very large in London in the period 1907-1912. Graces Guide is a good place to start for further information.

Incidentally, a Dodson-built double-deck bus body, originally mounted on a Darracq-Serpollet steam bus, came to Birmingham in 1913. When the Metropolitan Steam Omnibus Co Ltd was acquired by the London General Omnibus Co Ltd in 1912, the steam buses were replaced with AEC B-types. Midland Red purchased one of the redundant bodies, and it was mounted (by Birch Brothers Ltd) on fleet number A20 [registered OA2549; Tilling-Stevens TTA2 chassis number 63; new in 1913; the last Midland Red TTA2]. This bus, complete with ex-steam bus body, was sold to Potteries Electric Traction Co Ltd in 1918 (with ex-Edinburgh registration S4443). So, if a second generation steam bus never came to Birmingham, at least part of one did! ;) [Source: Midland Red Volume 2 (page 223).]

[On 30 June 205 Christies auctioned a beautiful 1914 Darracq 16 hp V14 (non-steam) car (with Birmingham registration OB3723) for an amazing £17,038. That's my kind of car! :)]
 
Darracq-Serpollet mounting a Tilling-Stevens has to be a marriage made in heaven. I wonder what sort of radiator it had!

Like the V14 but give me a Critchley-Norris any day (wonder how many bushels of coke it would need to get over the Lickey's? Where does one buy the best coke these days?)
 
Alors and sacre bleu za haw hee haws are here yet again, so to the rousing sounds of Rule Britannia I bring you an English operated Metropolitan Daracq-Serpollet - the things I do for my country!:georgecrossflag:
 
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Aiden I have bad news for you, the Critchley-Norris is oil fired so best return the coke to Saltley Gasworks and get a refund. Have some more info on this steamer if interested but too late to include tonight.
Mike
 
Mike, the Darracq-Serpollet in your picture has a Dodson body like the one Midland Red bought! :thumbsup:

Aidan, Midland Red OA2459 would have had a Tilling-Stevens TTA2 radiator, as discussed on the MRED thread recently. :)
 
Encore de la Vapeur Française!

This picture crops up a lot on the internet, with the caption:
Prince Charles Louis de Bourbon and M Tourrand in front of the steam omnibus of the Société Anonyme de Générateurs Économiques of Paris c 1906.​
But I can't find any reliable information about the people or company named, nor about the steam omnibus itself.
 
First SGSB 1897?

The Lifu "Pioneer" second generation steam bus was built in 1897 and operated in London for a while before being sold to the Mansfield Motor Car Co Ltd (Mansfield, Nottinghamshire). Renamed to the "Mansfield Pioneer", it ran in the Nottinghamshire town for a few months in 1898, just a stone's throw from Birmingham. Remarkably, the engine survives and is preserved at the Nottingham Industrial Museum, as can be seen here.

This website goes into quite a bit of detail about the Mansfield Motor Car Co Ltd and the "Pioneer", but doesn't mention Lifu, and states that the steamer was built at East Cowes on the Isle of Man! ("Curioser and curioser ...".)

OK, that should be Isle of Wight, and the builder must have been the Liquid Fuel Engineering Co Ltd (East Cowes, Isle of Wight) aka Lifu. Lloyd has already shown us the Lifu steam launch "Oberon" in post #288.

Lifu was established by US-born multi-talented inventor Henry Alonzo House (1840-1930), who reminds me somewhat of our beloved Dr William Church.
 
Speaking of The Doctor, here's a fairly recent little article by California "syndicated columnist" Tad Burness on the "Church" steam carriage of 1833. No new information there, but it is interesting that he is repeating the old "Church furphy" in the midst of other inaccuracies. His source appears to be Floyd Clymer's Historical Motor Scrapbook, Steam Car Edition (Los Angleles: Clymer Motors, 1945), or some later edition of that popular work (I can't locate an e-text unfortunately). Floyd Clymer (26 October 1895 - 23 January 1970) was a US motorcycle pioneer and automotive writer.
 
Motorman - Sounds expensive, but would like more info once you are fully awake, thanks

Thylacine - Nice to find a new mention of the good Doctor, but I don't think I will be subscribing to "Auto Album/Spokesmanauto"!

Great there is a bit of a steamer in Mansfield - think I am more surprised they have a museum - but it is a good hour & a halfs drive (more if you have to wave the red flag ahead). DO I detect you are working up a Wonderland Avatar scenario (think I might have a few suggestions....)
 
The Mansfield "Pioneer" 1898.

[The local newspaper, The Mansfield Reporter, reported the brief 1898 career of the Mansfield Motor Car Co Ltd (MMC) Lifu "Pioneer" steam charabanc (from Mansfield in the News 1897-1899; somewhat edited, my emphasis):]

22 April: Registration of MMC. Directors: William Chadburn (chairman), George Fish, Frederick Hameyer, Frederick Robinson M D, Robert Vallance and John Ward. The first car will arrive in a few weeks' time. It will be able to carry 22 persons, and can pull a trailing car carrying another 22. It uses a high pressure (over 200 pounds per square inch) steam boiler, running on paraffin fuel. The weight will be kept below two tons, in order to avoid the five miles per hour speed limit on heavy vehicles. fares will be about 1d a mile. A shed is being built for it at Sanderson's foundry.
3 June: The arrival of the motor char-a-banc has been delayed. In the meantime, a petrol-drive Daimler Waggonette Car has been demonstrated in the area. MMC has also taken an agreement for use of this model.
1 July (Thursday previous, about 5.30): The Motor Car steamed into town, having journeyed from Cowes via Oxford, Birmingham, Derby and Sutton in Ashfield. The only cause for anxiety is the rubber of the tyres, which is too "sensitive" for road use.
8 July (1 July): The Motor Car, christened the Pioneer, commenced running. Car two is now being built, and it is hoped that solutions to the wheel problem will be incorporated in the design. Pioneer has run faultlessly and punctually some 50-60 miles a day this week. At present it serves the routes between Warsop and Huthwaite, and the Nottingham Road in Mansfield. It has also made, without mishap, a long excursion into the Dukeries. [The article also includes a detailed description of the vehicle.]
22 July: At the Horticultural Show, the fireworks display will, rumour has it, feature a representation of the Motor Car "going for a short distance and then suddenly blowing up".
29 July: Advert for Matthews and Son, gentlemen's outfitters, claiming that the breakdown of the Motor Car the previous Saturday was due to the number of heavily-laden customers returning home from their sale. Now that it is running again, they offer to pay the fares of all their customers who wish to use it to take their purchases home.
5 August: Vibration caused by the abandonment of the rubber tyres has damaged the mechanism of the Motor Car.
12 August: The Motor Car is "resting" until the vibration problem can be cured.
26 August: The Mansfield Motor Car has started running again, with strengthened replacement parts. Better rubber tyres have still not been supplied.

[That is all we hear about the "Pioneer" steam charabanc, but the failure of the venture does not appear to have hurt the political career of MMC chairman William Jackson Chadburn:]

10 November 1899 (day previous): At a special meeiting of Mansfield Town Council, W J Chadburn was elected Mayor of Mansfield.
 
SBSG in Birmingham 1898.

The fact that the Lifu "Pioneer" steam charabanc travelled from Cowes, Isle of Wight, to Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, via Birmingham, means that it is the SBSG which came closest to our city. I wonder what the Watch Committee made of the visit? It would be wonderful to find a local press account of the transit of the "Pioneer" through Birmingham (in June 1898). HELP PLEASE! :)
 
Good morning, Molesworth (should I still be addressing you thusly? :rolleyes:). I hope you're enjoying the Lifu "Pioneer" story.
 
Molesworth is still unwell :headhit: I answer to most things civil.... Will check out the papers after my blood stops curdling...
 
One more thing as Jim Morrison might croak - suggestion #1

Thylacine - Queen of Hearts/Red Queen ("off with their Thread")

Lloyd - White Rabbit (he's late, late for work...)

Moi - Mad Hatter (go on then...)

Rupert - Jabberwock (enough said)

Motorman - (cracks knuckles with anticipation.....) - March Hare? <ears right> DoDo? Mock Turtle, Tweedledee? Let the jury decide....
 
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[Molesworth, your frequent dramatisations of BSB bespeak a career in stagecraft! ;)]

A little more on Lifu: [1] Graces Guide; [2] Isle of Wight History Centre (scroll down to May 2009); [1] is fairly pedestrian; [2] tells the interesting story of the first police speed trap. Who could have guessed that it was on the Isle of Wight? [Beautiful place: we used to go there for summer holidays. :cool:].
 
I've just rediscovered a good book on SGSBs:
Alexander James Wallis-Tayler (1852-?). Motor Vehicles for Business Purposes. London: Crosby Lockwood and Son, 1905.​
Chapter 5 "Heavy Passenger Vehicles" deals with the four modes of power, going into considerable detail on certain makes: steam (Clarkson, Thornycrodt, Lifu, De Dion - Bouton, Straker, Scotte, Wiedknecht, Serpollet); petrol (Stirling, De Dietrich, Halcrow-Vincke, others); petrol-electric (Fischer, Jenatzy); electric (City and Suburban, Vehicle Equipment).

Below is a picture of the Straker standard 20-seat steam omnibus, as supplied to the North Stafforsdhire Railway. We looked at these fairly closely earlier on the thread.
 
Aidan said:
One more thing as Jim Morrison might croak - suggestion #1

Thylacine - Queen of Hearts/Red Queen

Lloyd - White Rabbit (he's late, late for work...)

Moi - Mad Hatter (go on then)

Rupert - Jabberwock

Motorman - (cracks knuckles with anticipation.....) - March Hare? DoDo? Mock Turtle, Tweedledee? Let the jury decide....
Click to expand...

Ah, 'tis far, far worse than that. I am suffering fools ungladly, having succombed once again to my own peculiar brand of the dreaded lurgy.
(I thought for a while I might be schizophrenic, but I'm in two minds about it now.)

Back in the real world, we have mentioned before (starting in post #778 of the 'Midland Red Early Days' thread) Thomson's "New Favourite" [surely the first double-deck bendy bus], but don't recall the mention of it's export to India.
Here therefore is a picture of it advertising itself on the locomotive as " ...Thomson's Patent, Ransomes, Sims and Head, Engineers, Ipswich" and on the passenger trailer "Govt. Steam Train" and "Jhelum & Rawulpindie" as the route branding. This map of the area of the Punjab, now in Pakistan, shows a route of 110Km.
I suppose it's too much to hope that, in some corner of a foreign (Pakistani) field there lies a former pioneer of the road...
 
Lovely picture, Lloyd, of the "New Favorite" transporting be-toppered Colonial Servants up the Khyber!

I'm undecided as to whether Penfold and Molesworth are really ill or just steamgooning (I used to be indecisive, but these days I'm not sure what I am).

If you blokes are indeed unwell, take good care of yourselves and enjoy a speedy recovery. If BSBers continue to fall like ninepins, were going to be "up S**t Creek in a barbed wire canoe without a paddle" as the Aussie vernacular so delicately puts it. (Find that on Google Maps! :D)
 
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Re: Encore de la Vapeur Française!

Thylacine said:
This picture crops up a lot on the internet, with the caption:
Prince Charles Louis de Bourbon and M Tourrand in front of the steam omnibus of the Société Anonyme de Générateurs Économiques of Paris c 1906.​
But I can't find any reliable information about the people or company named, nor about the steam omnibus itself.
Click to expand...

Only posted 7 hours ago and already a page of further posts. Paris-Berlin-Paris, now that would have been some journey in a steamer! I don't think I could have done that on a 5 shilling childs Midland Red Day Anywhere ticket.
 
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