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Birmingham Steam Buses 1824-1910.
motorman-mike
Brum visitor who stayed.
motorman-mike
Brum visitor who stayed.
The engine I believe used an oil fired "flash" boiler, whatever that is! I have turned up this photo of what is thought to be a Clarkson 'Chelmsford' 2 tonner with the Cirencester & District Motor Omnibus Co. but cannot trace this company. Any info would be most welcome.
Thylacine
master brummie
Great picture, Motorman! And if not the Midlands, not too far away (70-75 miles from Brum).
There's not much on the internet (that I could find) about the mysterious Cirencester & District Motor Omnibus Co, but the Essex Record Office has (in its Clarkson archive) a photograph album that contains not only a pictures of Cirencester & District AD304, but also pictures of GWR Clarksons DA80 and DA81. So the next time someone's in Essex, take your camera with you and visit the Essex Record Office.
And on 14 May 2002, Dreweatts / Bloomsbury Auctions sold "three postcard albums containing approximately 460 cards ... including ... a print of the Cirencester & District Motor Omnibus ..." for the amazing price of £633! :shocked:
There's not much on the internet (that I could find) about the mysterious Cirencester & District Motor Omnibus Co, but the Essex Record Office has (in its Clarkson archive) a photograph album that contains not only a pictures of Cirencester & District AD304, but also pictures of GWR Clarksons DA80 and DA81. So the next time someone's in Essex, take your camera with you and visit the Essex Record Office.
And on 14 May 2002, Dreweatts / Bloomsbury Auctions sold "three postcard albums containing approximately 460 cards ... including ... a print of the Cirencester & District Motor Omnibus ..." for the amazing price of £633! :shocked:
Lloyd
master brummie
The Clarkson 'thimble' flash boiler had dead-end pipes (thimbles) projecting into the heat flow, which instantly 'flashed' the water in them to steam, which escaped to the boiler top and was replaced by water which...ad infinitum.
Very quick for raising useable steam instantly, while the main body af water in the boiler was still being heated.
The type illustrated is used for train heating in diesel locomotives, and used the engine exhaust gas for some of the heat source, but the principle is the same for one that is totally oil (or coal) fired.
Lloyd
master brummie
As with all one-offs and oddities I think the Foden was more photographed than its ordinary brethren in the WMPTE fleet of the time. The Anorakerati usually ensure that all angles are covered, including inside if non-standard. I'm sorry the Foden is not properly preserved locally, being a fan of 'oddities', but until the lottery numbers get considerably closer to my choice of guess there's not much I can do about it. Shame.
I did see one of the Foden NC chassis on display at the Commercial Motor Show of whatever year it was, and was so unimpressed by its design I asked the company man on the stand if it was an April Fools joke or something. His level of disdain and belief in the product indicated he is probably a gardner or road mender today.
Generally the industry shared my view of the design (thanks, but no, thanks), and after the seven demonstration vehicles had been supplied to hoped-for customers, no more were built.
I did see one of the Foden NC chassis on display at the Commercial Motor Show of whatever year it was, and was so unimpressed by its design I asked the company man on the stand if it was an April Fools joke or something. His level of disdain and belief in the product indicated he is probably a gardner or road mender today.
Generally the industry shared my view of the design (thanks, but no, thanks), and after the seven demonstration vehicles had been supplied to hoped-for customers, no more were built.
Lloyd
master brummie
Not the lowest-selling, or lowest production - even if we don't include "one-offs" and prototypes which went no further (e.g. BMMO D!0, AEC/Park Royal 'FRM' rear-engined Routemaster).
One surprising failure was the Bedford JJL with a prototype and a production run of four, which rather like the SOS REC design was too far ahead of its time, but would have been a winner a couple of decades later.
Returning to the real subject of this board, I found this account of a journey on Hancock's "Infant" interesting - apologies if it has been referred to already.
Surely the first mechanised charabanc outing on the London to Brighton road, the route of some of the premier vintage vehicle runs nowadays.
One surprising failure was the Bedford JJL with a prototype and a production run of four, which rather like the SOS REC design was too far ahead of its time, but would have been a winner a couple of decades later.
Returning to the real subject of this board, I found this account of a journey on Hancock's "Infant" interesting - apologies if it has been referred to already.
Surely the first mechanised charabanc outing on the London to Brighton road, the route of some of the premier vintage vehicle runs nowadays.
Thylacine
master brummie
Lloyd, thanks for that link to "The First London to Brighton Run", which I haven't read before (and it makes excellent reading! 
). The author, so-called "Alexander Garden", is actually engineer and steam carriage pioneer Alexander Gordon (1802-1868), who we have met before. The article was originally published in the Journal of Elemental Locomotion, which Gordon edited in the period 1832-1834 (the first "automotive" magazine).
What a fascinating account! All the usual problems were encountered: difficulty with supply of fuel and water; negative reactions of certain witnesses, inn-keepers and coachmen; "fifty yards of Streatham Hill was covered with broken stones, six inches deep all the way across, 'to prevent the return of the steam-carriage'". The statement regarding the coachmen's reaction is interesting: "Some of the coachmen were exceedingly civil and polite, and voluntarily told us their horses passed the steamer without any trouble. Mr Wilkins, of the Cornet, is one of them. Others again shook their heads [not beads] like Washington Irvine's doubter." I think "Washington Irvine" should rather be "Washington Irving", who we have also met on BSB as the brother-in-law of Heatons Steam Carriage Company director Henry Van Wart.
I can't find an e-text of Gordon's Journal of Elemental Locomotion, which is a pity as I'm sure other articles from it would be very interesting and relevant to BSB. The article Lloyd linked to actually seems to have been taken from pages 48-57 of Walter Hancock's Narrative of Twelve Years' Experiments (London: John Weale, 1838), since Hancock there mis-spells Gordon's surname in the same way.
Alexander Gordon was a remarkable engineer, and is a reliable witness of these early steam carriage experiments. I've found the Institute of Civil Engineers obituary for Gordon, which I'll post next.
). The author, so-called "Alexander Garden", is actually engineer and steam carriage pioneer Alexander Gordon (1802-1868), who we have met before. The article was originally published in the Journal of Elemental Locomotion, which Gordon edited in the period 1832-1834 (the first "automotive" magazine).What a fascinating account! All the usual problems were encountered: difficulty with supply of fuel and water; negative reactions of certain witnesses, inn-keepers and coachmen; "fifty yards of Streatham Hill was covered with broken stones, six inches deep all the way across, 'to prevent the return of the steam-carriage'". The statement regarding the coachmen's reaction is interesting: "Some of the coachmen were exceedingly civil and polite, and voluntarily told us their horses passed the steamer without any trouble. Mr Wilkins, of the Cornet, is one of them. Others again shook their heads [not beads] like Washington Irvine's doubter." I think "Washington Irvine" should rather be "Washington Irving", who we have also met on BSB as the brother-in-law of Heatons Steam Carriage Company director Henry Van Wart.
I can't find an e-text of Gordon's Journal of Elemental Locomotion, which is a pity as I'm sure other articles from it would be very interesting and relevant to BSB. The article Lloyd linked to actually seems to have been taken from pages 48-57 of Walter Hancock's Narrative of Twelve Years' Experiments (London: John Weale, 1838), since Hancock there mis-spells Gordon's surname in the same way.
Alexander Gordon was a remarkable engineer, and is a reliable witness of these early steam carriage experiments. I've found the Institute of Civil Engineers obituary for Gordon, which I'll post next.
Thylacine
master brummie
Alexander Gordon 1802 - 1868.
[Institute of Civil Engineers. Minutes of the Proceedings (Volume 30, Issue 1870, January 1870, pages 435-436); somewhat edited.]
Obituary, Alexander Gordon, 1802-1868.
Mr Alexander Gordon was the second son of Mr David Gordon, the inventor and patentee of the system of compressing gas and using it in a portable form, and the grandson of Sir Alexander Gordon, of Culvennan, Greenlaw, Castle Douglas. He was born at New York (where his father at that time resided) on 5 May 1802. At the age of five years he returned with his father to Scotland, and was subsequently educated at the Edinburgh University.
In early life he was much employed by Telford, and was on intimate terms with Messrs Bramah, Donkin, Field, Simpson, and other members of the Institution. For many years he was agent for Mr R Napier, the marine engineer at Glasgow, and he was also manager of the portable gasworks in London, until they were abolished.
Mr Gordon devoted himself principally to the construction and management of lighthouses, especially in the colonies. In 1833 he introduced a polyzonal arrangement, both dioptric and catadioptric, constructed by M Maritz, of the Hague; and, in the same year, the catadioptric apparatus of Fresnel, which he adopted for lighthouse purposes, and which he exhibited at a meeting of the British Association at Edinburgh in the following year. This he followed up in 1834 by patenting a holophotal apparatus; and in 1842 he designed and erected the original great sea-light in an iron tower at Morant Point, Jamaica, the first of many of a similar character. In the lighthouses erected by Mr Gordon, he preferred using multiple reflectors, so that if through accident or carelessness one or two of the lamps were extinguished, there were still sufficient left to maintain the light. In 1837 [actually 1832] Mr Gordon published a treatise on locomotion, which passed through three editions, and was translated into several languages. He also, in 1845, patented a fumific propeller.
Besides the branches of engineering already enumerated, he designed and superintended the construction of the South Australian Company's swing bridge at Port Adelaide, which was made at the manufactory of Messrs Easton, Amos, and Sons. Mr Gordon was one of the originators of the Polytechnic Institution with Sir George Cayley and several other gentlemen, the object of the Institution being, at that time, entirely scientific. He was highly esteemed in private life; and many of his pupils acknowledged that they owed their success in life to the instruction and advice received from him.
He was elected an Associate of the Institution on 10 April 1827; was transferred to the class of Members on 17 February 1835, and contributed a paper on "Photography, as applicable to Engineering", in the year 1840. After that date he frequently took part in the discussions at the evening meetings. He was also a Fellow of the Royal Geographical Society.
Mr Gordon died at Sandown, Isle of Wight, on 14 May 1868, in the sixty-seventh year of his age.
[Institute of Civil Engineers. Minutes of the Proceedings (Volume 30, Issue 1870, January 1870, pages 435-436); somewhat edited.]
Obituary, Alexander Gordon, 1802-1868.
Mr Alexander Gordon was the second son of Mr David Gordon, the inventor and patentee of the system of compressing gas and using it in a portable form, and the grandson of Sir Alexander Gordon, of Culvennan, Greenlaw, Castle Douglas. He was born at New York (where his father at that time resided) on 5 May 1802. At the age of five years he returned with his father to Scotland, and was subsequently educated at the Edinburgh University.
In early life he was much employed by Telford, and was on intimate terms with Messrs Bramah, Donkin, Field, Simpson, and other members of the Institution. For many years he was agent for Mr R Napier, the marine engineer at Glasgow, and he was also manager of the portable gasworks in London, until they were abolished.
Mr Gordon devoted himself principally to the construction and management of lighthouses, especially in the colonies. In 1833 he introduced a polyzonal arrangement, both dioptric and catadioptric, constructed by M Maritz, of the Hague; and, in the same year, the catadioptric apparatus of Fresnel, which he adopted for lighthouse purposes, and which he exhibited at a meeting of the British Association at Edinburgh in the following year. This he followed up in 1834 by patenting a holophotal apparatus; and in 1842 he designed and erected the original great sea-light in an iron tower at Morant Point, Jamaica, the first of many of a similar character. In the lighthouses erected by Mr Gordon, he preferred using multiple reflectors, so that if through accident or carelessness one or two of the lamps were extinguished, there were still sufficient left to maintain the light. In 1837 [actually 1832] Mr Gordon published a treatise on locomotion, which passed through three editions, and was translated into several languages. He also, in 1845, patented a fumific propeller.
Besides the branches of engineering already enumerated, he designed and superintended the construction of the South Australian Company's swing bridge at Port Adelaide, which was made at the manufactory of Messrs Easton, Amos, and Sons. Mr Gordon was one of the originators of the Polytechnic Institution with Sir George Cayley and several other gentlemen, the object of the Institution being, at that time, entirely scientific. He was highly esteemed in private life; and many of his pupils acknowledged that they owed their success in life to the instruction and advice received from him.
He was elected an Associate of the Institution on 10 April 1827; was transferred to the class of Members on 17 February 1835, and contributed a paper on "Photography, as applicable to Engineering", in the year 1840. After that date he frequently took part in the discussions at the evening meetings. He was also a Fellow of the Royal Geographical Society.
Mr Gordon died at Sandown, Isle of Wight, on 14 May 1868, in the sixty-seventh year of his age.
Lloyd
master brummie
Re the London-Brighton trip, I noticed the observation of the bad coach driver - his decendants are still with us!
"The only discomfort of the journey was a feeling of the want of courtesy, which our conductor (driver) showed to other coaches. He most obstinately kept the crown of the road, to our great annoyance; and when he did take the side, it was not to the extent he ought. Steam conductors must conciliate."
"The only discomfort of the journey was a feeling of the want of courtesy, which our conductor (driver) showed to other coaches. He most obstinately kept the crown of the road, to our great annoyance; and when he did take the side, it was not to the extent he ought. Steam conductors must conciliate."
Aidan
master brummie
That's another great reference tome unearthed
I like the reference to it causing great curiosity and interest particularly among the ladies https://www.archive.org/stream/narrativetwelve00hancgoog#page/n78/mode/2up/search/ladies - Quo vardis est ladies?
The London and Birmingham Steam Coach Company get a couple of pages https://www.archive.org/stream/narrativetwelve00hancgoog#page/n98/mode/2up/search/birmingham
And some of the other Steam pioneers are name-checked https://www.archive.org/stream/narrativetwelve00hancgoog#page/n106/mode/2up/search/church
I like the reference to it causing great curiosity and interest particularly among the ladies https://www.archive.org/stream/narrativetwelve00hancgoog#page/n78/mode/2up/search/ladies - Quo vardis est ladies?
The London and Birmingham Steam Coach Company get a couple of pages https://www.archive.org/stream/narrativetwelve00hancgoog#page/n98/mode/2up/search/birmingham
And some of the other Steam pioneers are name-checked https://www.archive.org/stream/narrativetwelve00hancgoog#page/n106/mode/2up/search/church
Thylacine
master brummie
Yes, the ladies like a bit of vapourware! That article is a great find, Lloyd: it's classic 1830s "automotive" journalism. I find it's easier to follow if I wear a top hat while reading. 
It also improves my singing voice ("So raise the steam and come along ..." :222
. [Can't find a singing smiley in a topper.]
It also improves my singing voice ("So raise the steam and come along ..." :222. [Can't find a singing smiley in a topper.]
Lloyd
master brummie
Thylacine
master brummie
"Vicipædia Latina": good heavens! George Dixon's got a lot to answer for. When I was at Bishop Vesey's GS we had "Slasher" Slater for Latin. Strong on discipline, but short on classical inspiration. (Thylacinus adsum jam forte!
).
Aidan
master brummie
Nunc prehende uxore meam...sis! (Les Dawson, sadly missed). Sit vis nobiscum.
DavidGrain
master brummie
Cirencester & District Motor Omnibus Co was probably taken over by Bristol Onibus Co who took over many of the companies in their area and often continued to trade under tha old company names eg Bath Tramways
motorman-mike
Brum visitor who stayed.
Yer we goes then, they Latin swots is at it again!
Many thanks Lloyd for explining the "flash" boiler system, must be nearly time we repaired to the Coach & Horses again for an evening refresher and a bowl of chips?
Lloyd
master brummie
Indeed, my former Latin master Mr Hannay (a short rotund gentleman who still wore schoolmaster's gowns - imagine the schoolmaster character portrayed by Jimmy Edwards, but with the body and fungusless face of Charlie Drake) would be proud, if not totally amazed that I can still use the dead (and long may it rest in peace) language.
Yes a pint and a snack would go down well, a shame this pub is too far away in Hemel Hempstead.
Yes a pint and a snack would go down well, a shame this pub is too far away in Hemel Hempstead.
motorman-mike
Brum visitor who stayed.
Thylacine
master brummie
Good morning all, and thanks for your continuing contributions.
All this talk of pints and chips is putting me off my breakfast! Fine looking pub, the "Steam Coach", though. That's where we BSBologists should hold our annual convention. Steaming down to Hemel Hempstead in Penfold's "stretch steam coach" of course!
Motorman, that's a great picture of GWR Clarkson DA82 (and another) at Wedmore, Somerset, circa 1909. DA82 is indeed one of the three Wolverhampton - Bridgnorth steamers of December 1904, so what a find! The other bus could well be DA80 or DA81.
[The Great Western Railway had an interesting bus fleet over the years. I wonder if anyone ever wrote a detailed fleet history?]
The icing on the cake is a sighting of young Motorman (fledgling anorak, or just waiting for the pub to open?)
[Ducks for cover, spilling his coffee. D'oh! ... I'm keeping my head down today, working on the BSB INDEX, so just talk quietly amongst yourselves. Molesworth, you're in charge. "So raise the steam ..." View attachment 55002]
All this talk of pints and chips is putting me off my breakfast! Fine looking pub, the "Steam Coach", though. That's where we BSBologists should hold our annual convention. Steaming down to Hemel Hempstead in Penfold's "stretch steam coach" of course!
Motorman, that's a great picture of GWR Clarkson DA82 (and another) at Wedmore, Somerset, circa 1909. DA82 is indeed one of the three Wolverhampton - Bridgnorth steamers of December 1904, so what a find! The other bus could well be DA80 or DA81.
[The Great Western Railway had an interesting bus fleet over the years. I wonder if anyone ever wrote a detailed fleet history?]
The icing on the cake is a sighting of young Motorman (fledgling anorak, or just waiting for the pub to open?
)[Ducks for cover, spilling his coffee. D'oh! ... I'm keeping my head down today, working on the BSB INDEX, so just talk quietly amongst yourselves. Molesworth, you're in charge.
"So raise the steam ..." View attachment 55002]
Aidan
master brummie
.... Molesworth, you're in charge.
Aidan Molesworth is unwell (too much mention of Coach & Horses or a conjugation too far)
DavidGrain
master brummie
I remember Mr Hannay who tried to teach us Latin in the Fourth Form but as it was his first year in teaching we really played him up. Fortunately because of the timetabling he took only half of our Latin lessons so Mr Proctor who took the other half managed to keep us on track. Mr Hanney also taught us Spanish but I failed that exam.
Thylacine
master brummie
Motorman, further to the Cirencester & District Motor Omnibus Co (CDMO; post #586): Kelly's Directory of Gloucestershire (1914) [Accessed via Historical Directories] has the following mentions:
"CDMO leave Fairford twice daily about 9.25 am and 2.30 pm from the Market place".
"CDMO leave Lechlade twice daily from the New inn; Mon 9 am and 1.30 pm; Tues, Wed and Thurs 9.50 am and 2.25 pm; Fri 9.50 am and 1.45 pm; Sat 9.50 am and 1.30 pm. These times are subject to alteration."
Strangely there is no mention of CDMO under Cirencester, so we learn nothing about headquarters or proprietors. But it seems that the route was Cirencester - Fairford - Lechlade.
"CDMO leave Fairford twice daily about 9.25 am and 2.30 pm from the Market place".
"CDMO leave Lechlade twice daily from the New inn; Mon 9 am and 1.30 pm; Tues, Wed and Thurs 9.50 am and 2.25 pm; Fri 9.50 am and 1.45 pm; Sat 9.50 am and 1.30 pm. These times are subject to alteration."
Strangely there is no mention of CDMO under Cirencester, so we learn nothing about headquarters or proprietors. But it seems that the route was Cirencester - Fairford - Lechlade.
