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The Roundhouse

Yes Ell, it refers to it as an urban recreation centre. All the services it's suggesting seem very worthy and hopefully they'll be well used, but it all seems to be a bit piecemeal. It doesn't give an impression of having a specific identity. I would think the building's real value and identity is in it's history and the canal heritage connection, but the proposals sound more like just another community service. The document is looking for suggestions and views, but I sense most of it has already been decided and they're really looking for sponsors. Viv.
 
Re: Canals of Birmingham
I don't know about museums. They may or may not be visited much. Why not refurbish the structure for use of canal boaters...laundry facilities...showers or even a Turkish baths or sauna. Groceries even and stores. Boats have facilities of course, but can only carry so much water. Pump out equipment and a fresh water fill station. Diesel & gas fill pumps and electric plug-ins. It would be a living facility, serving the canals as it always did, which non-boaters could also use. Museums are dead places. If you build it they will come and employment opportunities will result. A lot to like.
You need a viable commercial enterprise here. It can include the refurbished and enhanced old buildings...a project that any architect would relish, I would have thought. The boating entrance to Brum with the Worcester Canal further along and Farmers Locks to Fazeley. All of this with lots of fixed residential housing around...customers! A fantastic opportunity.
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Hi viv,
I hope nobody minds me going back on this round house business discussion we have way back in time but as charlie said is correct
There was a nursary run school for toddlers under age and it was adjoining a pub called the fiddler and bone it was not a big school
But it was openened in the minds and thoughts of the local estates meaning what was ledsam street and the extactly opersite
The entrance to the round house and it had the capacity to cater for a large number of kids it was well run and proper
As I think it was charlie whom said about the excact area was a historic quarter of Birmingham which true history
Its water ways, and wharfs for coal and for timbers merchants and many other provisions for Birmingham in its historic manner
It was also a stopping point for the bargies and there shire horse stables for the horse resting over night
To the left there was a huge coal wharf and the side track for goods yard which came off the main line into sidings for picking up provisions
As you are aware there is the water way canal running through there if I am right in thinking it was a Mr Goodswill whom owned that wharf
From day dot and his family was from Shelly park road I met his wife way back in the seventys a d there members of the family
And along side there was the goods shedd siding for the huge timber merchants I think it was Rudder and payne in the sixtys
But before them it was an old company and the story goes by the vicar from st Johns church not far from there
Whim told us of the story of a young l.Lady got murdered on that railway sideing of the sheds it was a huge warehousing for the Birmingham
Timber trade and to the right of it there was huge parts of Baxtors bolts and steels for up most of sherbourne street
Also cross the road in a make shift club house for the railway workers which was an oringale from day one it was made of timber
From all those early years through to about the sixty when they started to demo
But the area had already been started to be clear from all the old house from there to every street in Ladywood
But I will cut short of the rest so the council come up with the idea of expensive apartments for the professional
Like estate managers property tycoons barristers bank managers and that sort of professional people
Then they built the properys for council tenants which there was like anyway else was dodgy remnants it was up for donkeys years
I had two brothers straight out of the army after twenty years service move in up there they built the fiddle and bone pub very nice pub in deed
Then as soon as these yuppies moved in they started to complain about the noise so the council
Closed it down about two years later it went right back down the canal the bars and out side seating it was great but the council closed it down
The area went to rack and ruin all the shops put up cages in there shops it was you would point to an ktem that you wanted to purchase
The shop owner would pick it up off the shelf for you and hand through an hatch shop by shop this was what it was like
You could not get a taxi driver down the one street which I will not name because I have to be cafe full I offend some one but its a fact true to this day a taxi driver will not go passed those expense flats today for the fear of mugging and being robbed now I know its a fact that council houses and flats are going to be taken over by the council and reconvert them to the yuppie expensive apartments some are moving out now and some whom are in a postion to sell there house back to the council for a loss and the council will have them all back in there hands and they will become yuppie flats
Like they have extented all around the area may be then these type of people with boats and yayhts would appreciate the water wat museum
I have spent hundreds of hours on our water ways and canal of brum. And my mate Ronnie langford can also put a note to it
There is a hell lot of history to that area and the round house ,but yes it would not work yet until the whole area the council have in there long term planns
We spent hours up there from gas street and beyond and to the black country
These sideing of the oriniale siding was later moved further down to the cope street end of Ladywood and in was then known as monument red
Sideing and train station for passengers to travel anywhere in the country best wishes Alan,,, Astonian,,,,,
 
Hi Alan. Glad you're recording your memories of the Roundhouse and surrounding streets, especially as it's an area which has seen such changes. We might not always be able to change the way developers move, but we can at least highlight the area's history and encourage the preservation of as much as possible of its heritage for the future.

Just for info I've been reading the Grover Lewis Associates heritage assessment of 2012 and, going back to our earlier discussions about the place, it says this:

"The research carried out for this document has shown that the statutory list description and other documents providing information about the site contain a number of inaccurate facts, including an incorrect construction date for the Roundhouse of circa 1840 and a description of its principal use as a stable on a site that was a wharf. The actual construction date was 1873-4 and the principal use was as a store building on a Corporation Depot. It is also stated in the statutory listing that that the building was built for the London and North Western Railway, when in fact, it was commissioned by the Corporation of Birmingham for its own use. The two gatehouses are described as dwellings but one would appear to have been an office".

So it looks like it was an 1870s building with two gatehouses; one an office and one residential.

Viv.
 
I have to say that I was surprised when I read that it was built for the London and North Western Railway in 1840 when the LNWR did not exist then (Although the London & Birmingham Railway and The Grand Junction Railway which merged to form the LNWR had both reached Birmingham in 1838) and the railway on the other side of St Vincent St was much later.

I will always accept corrections when I have made an error but I stand by the narrative that I have given on guided walks I have led around this area that it was a Birmingham Corporation building used for stabling and storage. As it was near a canal to allow for goods like roadstone to be brought in, it is highly likely that they may have allowed canal horses in especially as they would have had a farrier on site.
 
Hi David
I cannot say it was owned by the railway myself it was the water board authority
Whom owned the building from dot ,yes there was a railway connection to the round house
At the round house there was a blacksmiths and the stables all around the cobbled yard and it was the resting place for such distance
Barge carriers also across the road there was a very huge cargo bonding ware house

The warehousing was about at least 400 Feet high and with many floors
Most of it got bombed down in the war but left its shell outer walls standing for decades
It later was used by rudders and Payne timber supplies
I think the very last horse ,was a huge power full grey horse and answered to the
Name of charlie whom ran up and down the grand union canal
In my life I had almost been trodden down by him once up at the Smethwick
Yard stables and another time along on the home front of ledsam street stretch
Which would have been about five hundred yards from the round house
But on the opersite side to it by the old bonding warehousing and that came around
The situation as kids we made a iron bar bend to an s ,shape hook with a tow top
Anchored to it and we would be dragging the cut ( The Canal ) For stolen bikes
We used to draft alsorts out of it, things that was there for donkeys years covered in sludge and oil we recovered tons of scrap metal
In all forms and shape it was so much we comp.etely littered the tow paths
And was surrounding by metal all most around our feet as I turned charlie was almost upon me
I panicked and gripped on the scrap that I have pulled out my mates was well along the tow pathe
As I tripped I could hear charlie panting through towing the barge along that's how close he was
I got up and ran as fast as my little legs would carry me we did find bike quite often we even found a railghy runabout moped which we took
To the old Ladywood police station in those days long before Ladywood was demoed
Also a gun on the monument red end which was by the number 8 Circle clock in
Took that as well
But getting back to the round house it was the water boards not the railway ,whom owned it but possible later in later years after the sixties
The rail way and the cut ran along side it on both side it on sheepcote street and broad street
Baxters and the other companies up sheecote street had there own landing bays and inlets
Of the canal coming into there lands for unloading cargos
It would also run around from fazely street which was the main bonding ware house
Of brum, that within its complex is still all standing I have been asllaround that complex
On a business issue that is some complex and they still have a guy whom is the complex manager
I was totally amazed to the site all around the wharf from one department to another
I nearly fell in area times walking around the complex and it took ages to get around
The round house had a lot of outer building and a massive cobbled stone yard
Coming down the tracks from monument rd and the station itself the side road was name
Cope street which was formerly monument lane ran down it and that was the sheds
For repairs travel back down the track towards the round house which was a couple of miles of track
To get to the round house the big huge bonding ware house which was bombed and lost its roofing
And floor complex was used by the railways for storing all there big heavy goods wagons
By the hundreds coaches was stationed further back to Smethwick what is known as the grand union feeder for the canals and there was a lock keeper
Named Ralph a little huntch back man, he lived in the lock keepers house
Which was owned by the waterways from boy to old age when he got retired from there he had to move out and he got a job as a barman
At the old smiths arms pub which later in many years was renamed the old smithy
And they kept an anvil behind the bar door to keep it open it was there for years but some one nicked it
Sorry for waffling on as I do but that's my bit about the round house
Best wishes Astonian,,,,
 
Hi David
Firstly a big thank you for your thread and I hope you are well and also little bit late I think,but as I have always been told repeatedly
By seniors whilst growing up its never to late for anythink in life
So wish you a very happy and healthy and. A prosperous new year for 2015
Thanks again david Alan ,,,,Astonian,,,,,,
 
Vivienne14 said:
Right David understand. So we're talking ribs that stretched across the pathway, not along the length.

My next question, is how did this place actually work? I understand the stabling and stores (of horse feed? or other items? Surely not coal?) . But were the horses taken down to the canal boats (with carts?) to take the coal to the trains nearby? Or vice versa? Or were they canal horses to pull barges? Or both? What a lot of questions! But just realised I don't actually know how these buildings were used. Viv
Click to expand...

I'd assume that horses would get the coal to the Loco shed, maybe by pulling barges. Good question though!
 
I think the railway is a complete red herring as far as the Roundhouse is concerned. This was a Birmingham Corporation depot which had canal access and was adjacent to railway facilites. Any coal for the railway would have come by rail not by canal.
 
DavidGrain said:
I think the railway is a complete red herring as far as the Roundhouse is concerned. This was a Birmingham Corporation depot which had canal access and was adjacent to railway facilites. Any coal for the railway would have come by rail not by canal.
Click to expand...

That has cleared that up, sending coal to Monument Lane would be easier that way.
 
Thanks Harbornite and David. Just goes to show that we can learn more about these old buildings even after such a long time since they fell out of use. Viv.
 
The building cannot have been built for the London & North Western Railway, but there may have been a railway function on or near this site when timbers were kyanised for various railway undertakings then under construction. The London & Birmingham Railway had kyanised sleepers. This was a form of preserving sleepers using mercury salts to a patent method.

It was the London & Birmingham Railway company which entered into an agreement with the Birmingham Canal Navigations to build the Stour Valley Railway (1847-1850) that follows the canal from Birmingham to Wolverhampton. The LBR became part of the LNWR before construction started and evidence for the LNWR using this land is lacking, but they did have Monument Lane Goods Depot, Railway Interchange and locomotive sheds to the north of the Round House.
 
Just for interest this is taken from the Godfrey reprint of the OS Map for 1914. This shows how extensive the Stour Valley line of the railway was in the area around the Roundhouse

Roundhaouse Map.jpg
 
Basicly there regarding monument lane the canal ran alongside of monument rd and monument lane and the wharfing would have been
Along the tow path from the round house which was Mr goods hill coal yard it stretch all the way back as.long the yard it was in fact open lands and the timbers was also unloaded there he had tons of different coals all stacked up in different piles big blocks of coal and small and coke piles as well as the slack
He had ma y men loading and weighing coal into sacks whilst others was doing various jobs
They men unloaded the coal barges by hand you would bee surprised how long it took a couple of men
From the round house wharf to monument lane I would say about there miles down to monument lane siding and goodwill delivered around Birmingham
Houses around the area in Ladywood from monument lane further on passing the monument lane you had another major wharf about the same distance from monument lane to new spring street there wharf was bigger than sheepcote street same there mulititune of diffent coal lumps all brought up
From the diffent parts of the country and a handful of men unloading those deep in depth bargies all day long
They was lining up at the side of the bays some was left there full and went away with another empty one
There was sheeocote siding with there over head cranes lifiting the back/sacks into the wagons
Like wise monument lane monument lane tracks ran straight into sheepcote side they was all the same tracks
One run way between them you could walk from one end to another only sheepcote street was a massive complex before getting bombed
All other goods was carry on passing the round house around to the fazely end to the major bonding ware housing
Which was high value goods and regarding the horse to the round house he would stop at sheepcote street unstrapp him
And walk him up the slope and cross the road and down the other side but before that sheepcote was built it was just another slope under the bridge and stay the night if going to London stable and feed the horse and a early start off next morning going through the old gas street basin and locks
That's where the old little barge shop used to be in those early years they was all gone and stood empty for at least forty on years
And slowly they started to do them up as a kid I only recall about three family's .ivi g in them what appeared to be huts but they was tiny house
And they used to shout and chase us off up the cut and gas street tunnel you could not see your hand in front of your self
That's how blaclpk it was and there was no hand rail there to stop you falling in over the edge even as kids you had to bend your head to walk through it
Best wishes Astonian,,,,,Alan,,,,,
 
The Roundhouse is placed beside the northern towpath on Telfords Birmingham Canal Improvement, which was completed to Smethwick in 1829 an comprised the New Main Line. The land upon which the Round House stands belonged to King Edwards School.

It remains to be determined, if any thing was on this triangular piece of land prior to the Corporation Stone Depot, which is given as being from 1874. The Anti Dry Rot company had premises in Sheepcote Street had a wharf and there were 9 tanks for kyanising. Robsons 1839 directory mentions this company and in the street directory section lists it after no 42 and so it could have been at one or another of the street. And, if at the St Vincent St end could either be on the Nile Street side or the other. The sale took of this premises in October 1841

Ray Shill
 
The Dry Rot Company advertised their location as Sheepcote Street Wharf in an 1836 advert in the Birmingham Journal. Following subsequent street index listings in Birmingham Trade Directories this location appears to be known as Sheepcote Street Dock and in the 1850's and 1860's was occupied by Joseph Cottrell boat builder and also in the early 1860's by Barrow & Pagett, general smiths and tank makers.

The Birmingham Rate Maps (c1870- c1875) show the new Stone Wharf buildings and also list the wharf by the name Sheepcote Street Wharf. So perhaps it did start off as the Dry Rot company wharf. May be the answer is with the records of King Edwards School, the land owners.

Ray Shill
 
I think I can now put Sheepcote Street Dock as being on the Old Main Line (Oozells Branch) near the bridge, and perhaps north of this first canal bridge as the Street headed northwards from Broad Street Islington.

The first reference to the Stone Wharf, which I can trace, is 1869 from the trade directory of that date.

Before that who occupied this particular site remains to be determined, although there are a few clues in the mix. Branson & Gwyther, builders of Belmont Row, had a wharf in Sheepcote Street in 1856, when a ton of iron was stolen from it. They were prominent builders in this area, and built the church over the canal in Broad Street, they also built station buildings and other railway work. The original 2-track "Brunel"viaduct from Moor Street was their work.

Ray Shill
 
Looking at the 1859 rate book the land which appears to be the Round House is listed as garden ground owned by King Edwards School. This does not exclude the possibility of other forms of use, and perhaps School records might assist.

The Piggot Smith map of 1855 shows no buildings on this triangular piece of land and so it is unlikely that the Anti Dry Company were here as the 1841 Ladywood Rate mentions house wharf and premises.

Ray Shill
 
I am very pleased that HLF money is to be given to The Roundhouse for restoration and subsequent new useage. Given the penchant amongst some local authortites and developers to demolish old industrial historic buildings this is good news indeed.

Yes I know it is a listed building but so many, over many parts of the UK, have succombed to severe vandalism and inevitable fires.
 
could not agree more with you alan...you only have to look at the 16 century golden lion pub that sits languishing in cannon hill park to realise that the powers that be in this city just dont care

lyn
 
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Hi there,
Some of you may already have heard about the Roundhouse and the tours taking place there this July? An explanation of what is involved - and it is a different type of tour! - has been copied in below. There is also a downloadable leaflet which will hopefully open successfully first time(!)

It'd be great if you could come along, especially as you have all expressed such interest in the site. If the tours are successful they may well become a permanent feature of the Roundhouse in the near future.

Cheers,

Roundhouse Birmingham is offering a rare opportunity for people to see one of the city’s hidden gems this July and August, before it is restored, with the Un-Tours, visits with a twist, where the audience members uncover the history of the building themselves, creating their own unique tour.


Roundhouse Birmingham, on Sheepcote Street, is at the heart of the city’s canal network and was originally designed as stabling for horses as part of a competition won by the famed architect WH Ward. The horse-shoe shaped building became integral to the ‘city of 1,000 trades’. The Grade II* listed building, which is owned by the Canal & River Trust, will be restored over the coming years, in partnership with the National Trust and with the help of the Heritage Lottery Fund.


Working with Ben Waddington from Still Walking, the Roundhouse team have developed the Un-Tours as an innovative approach to sharing this historic space with people before the main restoration work begins. It’s a tour like no other, where visitors are invited to search the building for clues and find out for themselves what secrets its history holds. Working with poets Spoz and Kurly anyone booking onto the Un-Tour is sure to have an experience they won’t forget and learn some fascinating stories along the way. It’s a quest, a challenge and a journey through Birmingham’s history all in one!


The Un-Tours will run at 11.30am-1.30pm and 2pm-4pm on 9, 16, 17 and 23 July and 20 August (2pm-4pm only).


We would be most grateful if you could forward this information onto any of your partners who may be interested in taking part, please feel free to share.
 

Attachments

  • Roundhouse DL.pdf
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Thanks so much for letting us know about the forthcoming 'Un-Tours'. We've been keeping an eye on the building for some years and it's good to see it moving forward. Your tours sound like a very engaging approach. I'm sure you'll get a good response. Hope you get children coming along too.

We've many interested members on this site and hopefully some will be able to make one of the dates. For general info are there concessions for senior visitors?

We wish you well with the new venture and we'd be interested to hear how things continue to develop at the Roundhouse. Thanks for keeping us updated.

Regards Viv.
 
I have also tried and as far as I can find out , nothing has been posted on the internet about the Roundhouse by the National Trust since 23rd November last year.
 
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