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The Roundhouse

Vivienne14

Vivienne14

Kentish Brummie Moderator
Staff member
This wonderful building is a piece of canal history that has remarkably survived some 140 years. The Canal River Trust is now consulting the public about its future use. Built in the 1870s and being grade II listed, it's an important piece of the history of Birmingham and it's canals. Ellbrown brought the consultation about the future use of the buildings to the attention of BHF members via the Canals of Birmingham thread (https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=4054 )

He kindly posted this link to the consultation details: https://canalrivertrust.org.uk/about-us/consultations/current-consultations

In view of the significance of this building and it's history, this new thread has been started for comments specific to the Roundhouse.

I should also like to add this link to the thread which gives some interesting background to the Roundhouse over time. https://eplanning.birmingham.gov.uk...1348db6&unique=598155&type=eplprod_DC_PLANAPP


Viv
 
Viv I posted this link on the Facebook group last night.

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/ne...undhouse-future-consultation-launched-6859685

[h=1]New lease of life for Birmingham's iconic Roundhouse[/h]
Public asked to come up with ideas to transform historic city landmark

JS33995955-6861268.jpg

The Roundhouse, in Sheepcote Street, Birmingham, on the canal which was built 1840 as a mineral and coal wharf for the London & North Western Railway A landmark building at the heart of Birmingham’s canal network will be transformed with the help of local people.
They are being asked to come up with innovative ideas for the future of the iconic Roundhouse.
A consultation process has been launched to explore how the Grade II* listed building could be redeveloped as an urban outdoors hub.
The horseshoe-shaped Roundhouse was built by the Corporation of Birmingham as a mineral and coal wharf in the 1870s and was originally used for stabling and storage.
The Roundhouse, now owned by the Canal & River Trust, could be converted a cycle store and workshop. Other ways of breathing new life into the building which are under consideration would be turning it into a catering facility or a hub for local businesses.
Beccy Speight, Regional Director for the National Trust in Birmingham, said: “The survival of this unusual historic building in such a central location, and in an area that has largely been redeveloped, makes it stand out in a very modern city.

“It tells a fascinating part of Birmingham’s story. It was originally a hub for the distribution of goods and the stabling of horses and there is an exciting opportunity to make it a modern day hub for those who want to actively explore and discover more about their city today. We’d love to help make that happen.”
Simon Salem, Marketing Director for the Canal & River Trust said: “If Birmingham is the nation’s ‘canal capital’ then the Roundhouse would be its city hall.

“This wonderful waterside landmark has been under-used for far too long and we are determined to find a new community use for it which puts it back at the heart of the city’s revitalised waterways.
“The Canal & River Trust and National Trust both want to celebrate, and reconnect people to Birmingham’s rich working heritage and we believe the Roundhouse offers an exciting opportunity for the city.”
For more on the consultation, go to: canalrivertrust.org.uk/about-us/consultations/current-consultations
Click to expand...
 
Thanks Ell. Great photos, good to see the interior of the horseshoe. It gives an excellent impression of the potential of this interesting structure.

If I remember correctly, there's never been a canal museum in Birmingham (?). So Astonian's suggestion (on the earlier Canals of Birmingham thread) to house a museum at the Roundhouse sounds pretty good to me. Very appropriate, next to the canal and with lots of history to offer as a heritage building. In one of the links posted it mentions the main focus of the building being towards the railway. So a move to improve access from the canal would create a visible link to the canal corridor/tourism/walkers etc and seems to also make such perfect sense. Viv.
 
Well as long as it isn't a noisy pub, bar or club!

The nearby NIA is being done up.

I recall Banbury had some kind of canal museum objects on their museum (a bridge over the Oxford Canal - not part of the main museum). Models of locks etc.










Would be great if we had something like the above!
 
There seems to be a difference of opinion about the date of the building. Some documents quote c.1840 as the date for the building of the stables and stores, others say 1870s. Here's the English Heritage listing. Looking at the style of building I'd say it certainly looks earlier than 1870s. Wonder if the chosen horseshoe design was deliberate to reflect it's use? Viv.


From English Heritage:
SHEEPCOTE STREET 1. 5104 Ladywood B16 Horse-shoe shaped former stables and stores at No 23 (City of Birmingham Engineers Depot) SP 0586 NE 31/9 22.11.76 II* 2. C1840 and built for the London and North Western Railway as a mineral and coal wharf. Asymmetrical composition of horseshoe design built within the angle of Sheepcote and St Vincent Streets where the entrance is flanked by 2 houses. Ribbed ramps laid from the entrance, one straight down and under an arch at the crown of the horseshoe, the other around the horseshoe and over the arch. Red brick and some stone trim; slate roofs. The stables and stores are arranged in a horseshoe shape and stand above more streets approached by the many roads under the arch. They consist of 10 single storeyed bays, a central 152 storeyed bays and another 10 single storeyed bays. The arrangement is somewhat impaired on the right by a later glazed wooden addition. Round headed wooden casement windows and segment headed stable doors. Beneath the arch, at the back of this building, more streets within arches separated one from another by battered buttresses.

From https://list.english-heritage.org.uk/resultsingle.aspx?uid=1220997
 
I was surprised at the description of the building as horseshoe shaped because the maps show it as a circle, admittedly an incomplete circle because of the gateway and the two lodges. There does seem to be a conflict as Viv says about the date but I put that down to the difference between the date of the wharf built by the London and North Western Railway and the date of the stables built by Birmingham Corporation. I don't have to hand the date that the LNWR took over management of the BCN (Birmingham Canal Navigations) but there were extensive railway workings on the otherside of St Vincent Street and the railway would have had canal access.
 
Thanks David. That helps explain the date differences. Also can anyone explain please the 'ribbed ramps' in the English Heritage listing? I've looked at Ell's fifth photo in post # 3 and can't make these out. Are the 'ribs' those larger stones? Viv.
 
The original agreement between the BCN amnd the LNWR was signed in January 1846, with ever increasing influence after that
 
Viv, If you look at this photo that Eliot posted
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The ramp down to the canal level under the archway has a cobbled surface and a slope that steep would almost certainly have had every third or fourth course of cobble stones raised to allow the horses to get a grip especially in wet or icy conditions.
 
Right David understand. So we're talking ribs that stretched across the pathway, not along the length.

My next question, is how did this place actually work? I understand the stabling and stores (of horse feed? or other items? Surely not coal?) . But were the horses taken down to the canal boats (with carts?) to take the coal to the trains nearby? Or vice versa? Or were they canal horses to pull barges? Or both? What a lot of questions! But just realised I don't actually know how these buildings were used. Viv
 
My understanding is that this building was used by the Corporation's Public Works Dept so cargoes like roadstone would be brought in by canal and then taken on carts to where ever it was needed.

As for the railways there were many places all over the country where all types of goods were transshipped between the canals and the railways.

Incidentally another large Corporations stable building was at Holiday Wharfe where the Registry Office is now sited. I can remember being there in 1970 to guide a horse and carrige which had been kept there overnight for use in the Lord Mayor's Procession when a police man came in with his horse to be reshoed.
 
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Thanks David. Don't know why but seem to have got the impression it was involved primarily in transporting coal. So the building would have been predominantly horse stabling or offices for officials keeping tabs on goods being transported. It sounds like there was a lot of stabling for horses. It's also described as quite unique. So either that means it's unique in that it's the only surviving example or it was built in unique design. If the latter, I wondered if it was an experiment/development in more efficient handling of cargo. If it wasn't replicated elsewhere, wonder why not? Viv.
 
Cobbled ramps were a feature at many locks, loading docks, or stables. Their purpose was to assist horses which were hauling a boat or cart not only in icy weather but on other occasions to help their progress. Horses seem to be used for pleasure, in the main today, but in pre WW2 days they were a significant and essential part of peoples livelihoods.

For instance, it was said that you could always get another wife but you had to buy a horse! Sorry ladies, but that's the way it seems to have been in the past. :playful: Many families, as many will know, lived aboard the boats and butties - in very confined spaces it must be added. Little privacy there. Should a woman and horse fall into the 'cut' it was. apparently, usually the horse that was rescued in the first instance.:rolleyes:
These comments, true or false, are ones I heard passed down by relatives many years ago. As my own environment was far removed from the 'cut' (my mother, when a young girl and young woman, was never allowed there as she was told it was no place for a lady) so these comments made quite an impression upon me at the time. Many older Members here, who remember or knew about the life on the canals, will know that the present day leisure orientated canal system bears little resemblance to the workaday one of the past.

Both of my grandfathers had horses, one had a large livery stable in the London area the other for hauling canal boats. It would seem to me that the principal stabling of horses at the Roundhouse would be for the passing through boats which stopped , either to load or unload, or just for the night. Local delivery carters would have their own stabling arrangements I am sure. There were other similar facilities, such as this, in Birmingham. Each railway company would have had its own place. I will not mention names as I do not want to link the subject of the thread to anywhere else.
 
well part of an answer before those flats across the rd there was a club called the rail way club
on the corner of sheepcote street more or less facing the court and along side the club the canal runs passing it
and when you walked down sheepcote street it opnend up and there you would see the coal barges unloanding the coal by the qaye side unloanding thse barges by hand and shovel and there would have ben afew guysunloading it on to the way side pf the cannal alsorts of coal in every form of discripting bats cobblers and nuts shapes
the stables was a brideging point if you likea resting place for over night or some think like that and then they would move on again
either to any part of the grand union cannal it came from the north and what ever way even south they could feshen up the horse before carying on or even taking storesof trade of any discriptions as there was the bonding ware housing in fazely street here all materials contiband goods and precuios metals
was ll part of the system that is a massive place and alot of avenues of the cannals of brum a couple of years ago i went there to price up a job i was total
amazed to see and walk around the whole complex thats itself would have matched up to the black coutry museum meaningwater and land and bulding size
but getting back on track all this peiod before baxters bolts was fomed
at the back of the century building where the car parks are and from the very first exit of entering the carparpark at king edwards rd end
was the opening or all coal merchants would come and pick up all the purchases y horse and cart and by motor vechicles in such early days
on the subject of the stableing there was a big stableing yard way back down the cut pasing the feeder and the lock keepers house i think i wa jus after gailton bridge
where the main stabling was a very big yard with lots of big shirehorss kept in there and i can only presume from one end of the country there would have been alt of these stables just like to day lorry drivers have these places they call the truck stops wher they park up and get a bed for the night
its basicicly the same things they would not be pulllng barges through the nigh
on that bit of the coal storage it was kept along the cannal from the court it would have been about 800 yards along from the court
that i can certainly tell you because we used to go down there and we nealy got chewed up by a pack of big alsations
and at some point because of the vast size of that land there was a gentleman and the family set up his bussines in within that yard and supplied most if not all coal merchants around birmingham and this family lived in selly park rd a big house as i recal the house is still there i just cannotjust think ofhisname at the moment
when i first enrolled with this forum many years ago we did do a thread about coal men of the yester years and i did mention his name then but at he moment it avades me
but yes at he court there was shire horse kept over night as i have previously said the main yard of stables is up by the feeder cannal and the feeder is still working
so if a museum was to be buit i suggest some one oes around to fazely street there is alot of building and ware houseng and water bays all within the complex of fazely stret and you can walk aroun to ter on the foot pathe rom gas street bain an se thre old little boat peoples houses they are really tiny inside
best wishes astonian;;
 
hi david
you are quite correct up to a point it was taken over by the corporation as you say at some point
but then it became a lame duck and it stood emoty for years then the councl let it off and i think it was in the eightys it was taken on and turned into a da nursery if i remember corectly my younger brother whom lived in across the rd in those flats ad on lighthtorne avenue was gong to spend his saving to do excatly what some one else had thought he had two train girls [ daughter ] whom wa in the postion of finance to purchase he bulding of the offices
but clearly some one beat him to it [ the same idea ;so thats i know at what point it was used for a day nursery a kina garden ;it wa there for someyears
but prior in the very years it was the water ways whom owned it i cannot say what year the nursey finished but it is wuite obivisous why they pll out
by the redeveloments and exstending of those pent houses being built plus i would imagine the rates would have shot up
enjoy your week end david best wishes alan;; astonian;
 
Thanks Radiorails and Alan. You've painted a very interesting scene there, very busy, dirty and noisy I expect. I think it's also suggesting the Roundhouse is best looked at as part of a much more widespread activity. I've had another look at the various bits of info already posted and it seems different parts were built at different times, possibly another reason for confusion over building dates. Here's an extract from the epapers doc posted earlier. Also I think we're in need of a map. I'm not too sure which buildings the epapers extract specifically refers to. A bit confusing. Viv.

ImageUploadedByTapatalkHD1395587166.774270.jpgImageUploadedByTapatalkHD1395587183.128154.jpg
 
Also meant to say in response to Astonian'n comments, surely his suggestion for use as a canal museum is a no brainier. Or I am I over simplifying matters. Pro's: adds to Birmingham places of industrial heritage interest, good, pleasing space for a museum plus space for other related activities and businesses, links to canal and railway interests, excellent architecturally ... well I could go on. So let's look at the cons: cost and neighbours complaining (or would they?). Can't think of others, must be missing something. Are there any others? Viv.
 
The map is from the c1888 OS !:500 map, surveyed 1885-7. There is no roundhouse , or any buildings around , on the 1839 map, and there is map between these which I have access to which has sufficient detail to definitely show the roundhouse, though the 1851 and 1866 maps , which are very crude, do not appear to show anything there, but I do not place too much reliance on them
 
I think a Museum would be a good idea. There used to be a small Canal Museum by Rolfe Street in Smethwick, it closed and I'm not sure if it moved elsewhere. They had a section of a canal boat living quarters and history etc.
My 3xGt. Grandfather was a coal merchant on the Old Wharf, and was also connected with brick-making.
rosie.
 
Thanks Mike. Was hoping we'd be able to find some more detail e.g. named buildings etc. I wonder if it was always called The Roundhouse' too. I presume it once had another name but not come across anything yet. The Corporation Wharf seems to be the only name that pops up and I wondered if this was the general name used at one time for the whole complex of buildings on the Wharf.

Hi Rosie. Yes gets my vote too. Viv.
 
Last time I was down that way (couple of years ago) there was a children's nursery being run from the Roundhouse!
Very strange - but I guess the need is/was there, lots of flats and houses around that area.
 
hi rosy
you certainly get my vote 100 percent as i have said only the people whom know the aea and lived and experienced the area would know of these thing like ralph the lock keepers family whom kept it for donkeys years unles they have ben there they would ot the musum may i add it was way way back when they closed it that i do know
along with the stables yard that was along the cannal just up past the feeder as any body seen the feeder section; and not in book form ; astonian
 
Hi Alan when I said it's a 'no brainier' I meant its such a sensible solution to make it into a museum I.e. it's obvious. Wasn't suggesting it was a bad idea, it's a perfect idea that doesn't need chewing over because it's an obvious solution. Would the residents prefer a vibrant museum of canal history on their doorstep rather than an empty building rotting away, devaluing their properties? I know what I'd choose. Viv.
 
That PDF suggests a bike repair shop, micro cafe, community centre, a shop, cycle hub, cycle hire (we don't yet have Boris Bikes), canoe safari (whatever that is), city explorers, angling, bunk house, getting closer to nature, boat trips, architectural innovations.
 
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