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Old street pics..

Right boys and girls...saw these lovely pics posted by Tom Burke on the BHF FB site...and....does that look like a Pub Lamp on the left there? Well, if that's Gloucester Street, and he says it is...looking down towards Upper Dean Street (no St Martins Spire visible, as in Tom's first pic of this Street he posted yesterday, looking the other way)...then I wonder if it is indeed a hostelry, as there was no mention of one in the 40s (see map)...BUT McKenna mentions “the Old Rose and Crown in Gloucester Street (in his Central Birmingham Pubs Book Vol 2, page 68) and notes that "where reputedly, in the mid eighteenth Century, the Revd Dr Crofts of St Martin's held his Churchwarden's meetings there." ...fascinating...this would be the only known photo of this Inn if so I guess!!! Phil? Nice one...I hope...

Gloucester Street.jpg Gloucester Street from Upper Dean st.jpg Bull ring Pub Map 1940.jpg
Gloucester Street 1 and 2
 
what a lovely photo lady p as judy says...its one to treasure...

2 cracking photos off you dennis..i would say its not a pub lamp but obviously its just my opinion..thanks for posting them as i am not on bhf facebook i would not have seen them...hope its ok to save them..

lyn
 
What a lovely photo Lady P, especially with the information on your family just wonderful.
 
what a lovely photo lady p as judy says...its one to treasure...

2 cracking photos off you dennis..i would say its not a pub lamp but obviously its just my opinion unless of course someone can pin point where in gloucester st the old rose and crown was..thanks for posting them as i am not on bhf facebook i would not have seen them...hope its ok to save them..oh thanks also for the bull ring pub map thats a new one for me...noticed that 2 are marked for digbeth..its poss that one of those could have been the old guy pub that a rellie of mine ran..

lyn
 
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Astoness said:
what a lovely photo lady p as judy says...its one to treasure...

2 cracking photos off you dennis..i would say its not a pub lamp but obviously its just my opinion unless of course someone can pin point where in gloucester st the old rose and crown was..thanks for posting them as i am not on bhf facebook i would not have seen them...hope its ok to save them..

lyn
Click to expand...

Yep...wishful thinking I bet Lyn...and of course you can copy them...
 
Dennis

I don't think there is any doubt that it is Gloucester Street, I can't find any reference in Kelly's to a public house as far back as 1903, so if that is The Old Rose & Crown that McKenna mentions then it must have been just a beer retailer and you will need someone with access to the census records for the period as it is not marked on the maps of the era as a public house either.
 
Phil said:
Dennis

I don't think there is any doubt that it is Gloucester Street, I can't find any reference in Kelly's to a public house as far back as 1903, so if that is The Old Rose & Crown that McKenna mentions then it must have been just a beer retailer and you will need someone with access to the census records for the period as it is not marked on the maps of the era as a public house either.
Click to expand...

Thanks Phil....I got carried away...! Anyway...here's a new one to me of the Woodman on Easy Row corner....and what is that nice ornate building next door...I forgot.....?

Easy Row Broad St corner old.jpg
 
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Dennis


I don't think the Woodman cam be seen on your photo as it is just out of sight to the right of the photo. My first photo shows the same scene as yours and if you tacked the second photo that shows the woodman on the end of it you would be right.
 

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Dennis
I can confirm that it is Gloucester st, and the picture was taken probably, from the first picture, in the 1890s. In the picture, where T Foster 8, meat salesman is shown on one door, and on the edge of the photo next to it could be a 7 and T... with what looks like "car.." beneath it. Thomas Foster was listed as a carcase butcher at 8 Gloucester st and Thomas Clift was at 7 Gloucester St, also a carcase butcher 1890 till 1897. By 1899 both had gone from this address, Clift to the new Meat market, Foster - who knows. It should , of course be mentioned that just because their name was still on the door it doesn't mean they necessarily still occupied the building.
I agree with Phil. I can only find one mention of a licensed premises in the street 1841-1900, and that was only in the 1762 directory, where Joseph Robbins is listed as a beer retailer at no 5 . As it does not appear elsewhere, he must have just had a beerhouse (or off licence) for a short time. The Rose & Crown was referred to in the 18th century and vcertainly doesn't seem to have been a pub for some time by 1900. Below is a map c 1889 showing where i think 7, 8 and 5 were, and also the lamp.


map_c_1889_gloucester_st2C_showing_probable_nos_52C72C8_and_position_of_lamp.jpg
 
Phil said:
Dennis


I don't think the Woodman cam be seen on your photo as it is just out of sight to the right of the photo. My first photo shows the same scene as yours and if you tacked the second photo that shows the woodman on the end of it you would be right.
Click to expand...

Not having the best of weeks am I?....you are quite right Phil...as per.....that Woodman always gives me grief....you and mike have politely corrected at me some time ago when I thought that lamp in the first picture of the Wharf (below) was the Woodman, remember? lol.....and in your pic (which I have enlarged a bit for my fading mincers, sorry), I was surprised and pleased to see the shop of WATSON & GLOVER...one of the few microscope manufacturers in England (they were mostly Geman-Zeiss and Leitz)...it was one of the first I ever had the pleasure of using in 1960 when I started in a lab....brilliant find for me personally....so, all was not lost; what started out as a dog's dinner ended up a feast for me! Thanks....


Paradise St Easy Row pub 1910 .jpgEasy Row...Woodman.jpg
 
mikejee said:
Dennis
I can confirm that it is Gloucester st, and the picture was taken probably, from the first picture, in the 1890s. In the picture, where T Foster 8, meat salesman is shown on one door, and on the edge of the photo next to it could be a 7 and T... with what looks like "car.." beneath it. Thomas Foster was listed as a carcase butcher at 8 Gloucester st and Thomas Clift was at 7 Gloucester St, also a carcase butcher 1890 till 1897. By 1899 both had gone from this address, Clift to the new Meat market, Foster - who knows. It should , of course be mentioned that just because their name was still on the door it doesn't mean they necessarily still occupied the building.
I agree with Phil. I can only find one mention of a licensed premises in the street 1841-1900, and that was only in the 1762 directory, where Joseph Robbins is listed as a beer retailer at no 5 . As it does not appear elsewhere, he must have just had a beerhouse (or off licence) for a short time. The Rose & Crown was referred to in the 18th century and vcertainly doesn't seem to have been a pub for some time by 1900. Below is a map c 1889 showing where i think 7, 8 and 5 were, and also the lamp.


map_c_1889_gloucester_st2C_showing_probable_nos_52C72C8_and_position_of_lamp.jpg
Click to expand...

Impeccable research....knew you would come through...many, many thanks mike.....you are a National Treasure!
 
Another poser...and an excuse to post more pics.....cracking shot of old COLESHILL STREET....put on by Tom Burke on the FB site....Question: is this the side that the Rodney Inn/Holders Concert Room was on..way doon the bottom there...on the left? Some great info about this famous establishment, and it's later rise as the Gaity Theatre here...by Paul Smith....https://www.arthurlloyd.co.uk/Birmingham/HoldersGrandConcertRoomsBirmingham.htm



Coleshill Street 1914.jpg Holders.jpg GaietyProgramme1897A.jpg
Coleshill Street 1914
 
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Dennis

Although I have a copy of the photo in question and have tried several times in the past to locate it I'm afraid I am unable to do so. I would hazard a guess from no other evidence than the photo alone that it was taken from outside the Prince of Wales on the corner of Gem Street and in fact the Gaiety would in fact be behind you on the other corner of Gem Street.

I base this on no other evidence than if we were looking toward town then we would see some of the city landmarks, if we are looking towards Ashted & Nechells then we would be stood in Dale End to get such a view and then the Gaiety Theatre would be in view.


Here are some more images of the Gaiety Theatre through the years.
 

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Yes Dennis, that must be the face of the rebuilt rodney, with Coleshill st along the bottom of the drawing. See c1889 map below

map_c_1889_showing_Gaiety2C_coleshilll_st.jpg
 
Dennis Williams said:
Thanks Phil....I got carried away...! Anyway...here's a new one to me of the Woodman on Easy Row corner....and what is that nice ornate building next door...I forgot.....?

View attachment 94060
Click to expand...

This view was not the Woodman as Dennis thought and as Phil corrected. It was in fact the Birmingham Homeopathic Hospital. This picture is taken from
https://sueyounghistories.com/archi...rmingham-homeopathic-hospital-and-dispensary/
and was previously on ebay
Birmingham-Homeopathic-Hospital-by-Thomas-Hall.jpegBIRMINGHAM HALL OF MEMORY Homeopathic Hospital ORIGINAL WATERCOLOUR Thomas Hall – see painting offered for sale on Ebay

However we still do not have an answer to Dennis's question about the ornate building next door. Can anyone help?
 
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page 9 here shows Yardley Road Radio Stores
proprietor A. Fellows
Does anyone know anything about this person.
Just a long shot as my fathers brother Albert had a couple of shops around this time.

Fingers crossed

Derek
 
now thats a lovely pic dennis..thanks for posting on here thats another one i would have missed..

cheers

lyn
 
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