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Newspapers : From Birmingham Post 150 years ago

Must have been a pretty sizeable place for £7500 in the 1870s. Wondering if the building is still there? Sounds like it was on the scale of a hotel. ..... er hem ... even if a place of questionable respectability! Viv.


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This must have been some place then Dennis. Be interesting to see a pic. But given the building was in Needless Alley, I somehow doubt it would have fetched THAT much or would it? And the YMCA - did they have that sort of money to purchase it? Viv.


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Doesn't look like any of the buildings that side of the street are original. Below is where it was on the 1889 map, after it had been turned into a YMCA

map_c_1889_showing_YMCA_needless_alley2C_formerly_Sultan_divan.jpg
 
The original link i had to the picture of the YMCA building now seems to lead just to a general University of /Birmingham page, so here is the document with the picture on

YMCA_building_needless_alley.jpg
 
Thanks for the picture again Mike. I have this from when you posted it quite a while ago, and was trying to find it to re-post!

I can't vouch for the price of the building when it was sold to the YMCA but can only say that the information came from Showells Dictionary! Agreed it does seem a very high price for the building.

In case its of interest, here is a link to advert for the Grand Sultan Divan in Manchester, which also mentions the Needless Alley one:
https://meethelocals.blogspot.co.uk...5/12/meet-local-joseph-bandano-of-africa.html
 
Vivienne14 said:
This must have been some place then Dennis. Be interesting to see a pic. But given the building was in Needless Alley, I somehow doubt it would have fetched THAT much or would it? And the YMCA - did they have that sort of money to purchase it? Viv.


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Click to expand...

Showells must have got that wrong Viv...from Mike's clip you could seemingly buy a wife for a shilling...and a brothel for seven thousand five hundred quid!!?? I know which one I'd prefer....
 
Thanks Mike. Certainly an impressive building. Think Mr Bandano had many interests. It also housed an American Bowling Alley. These are details of a token/medal that was struck for the place.

View attachment 93343

Can see why it had a questionable reputation, if there were 'fast' entertainments such as bowling, doubtless there was gambling etc!


And he became bankrupt in 1867 according to this notice in the London Gazette of 15 Nov 1867. He's described as cigar dealer and refreshment house keeper. Seems a very large premises for cigar dealing and refreshments. Viv.
 
viv
When you said you had details of a medal, i thought you meant when it was still under the old ownership, and wondered what sort of performance it might be a medal for !
 
I had assumed that the reason that victorian society took against the Divan so much was because it was large and in the centre of town. However this advert from 1871 for "clean active boys" might suggest something a little darker was going on.

Birm_daily_post_9_2_1871_clean_active_boys.jpg
 
Makes you wonder doesn't it? Here's an advert from when the Grand Sultan Divan's American Bowling Saloon opened - Judy

G Sultan Divan 2.jpg
 
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Finding it difficult to get my head around this place. Bowling alley, mocha coffee, Turkish ice cream, fancy cigars, ballroom with band etc etc. Must have been quite a novelty in its day. Can now see why they needed a building of that size. And can see why there would have been some scepticism about its activities. Not your run of the mill place of entertainment. Viv.
 
And we haven't explored why it was called the Grand Sultan Divan in the first place. It seems that in the Ottoman Empire the 'Divan' was the counsel/administration to the Sultan. What's that got to do with the seemingly suspect activities going on in Needless Alley? Absolutely no idea. Viv.
 
A Birmingham post comment on the council discussions in the paper on 11.8.1864 (below) says that there are 150 dubious licensed premises in Birmingham they'd like to get rid of , yet it is the Divan that is always mentioned.

birm_post_11_8_1864__150_dubious_licensed_premises.jpg
 
11.8.1864

More memories of the post in Birmingham c 1818.
More info on the pest field where plague victims were buries & on the position of Mr Hector's house in which Boswell stayed.
Suggestion as to possible source of skeletons in Castle Yard reported some weeks before.


Further_postal_memories.jpg

memories_of_pestpit_amd_Mr_Hector.jpg


further_on_castle_yard_skeletons.jpg
 
15.8.1864

A Reminder that many at this time still had to sign documents with a cross, though the number has imorived considerably

cannot_sign_own_name.jpg
 
does anyone have a photo of Hockley Hill from Key Hill down to Hockley Brook, my grandfather had a jewellery business on the hill, called Charles Sanders jewellers, it was knocked down to build the flyover. from valerieexbrummie
 
valerieexbrummie said:
does anyone have a photo of Hockley Hill from Key Hill down to Hockley Brook, my grandfather had a jewellery business on the hill, called Charles Sanders jewellers, it was knocked down to build the flyover. from valerieexbrummie
Click to expand...


hi valerie there is a thread for hockley hill with photos but not sure any will show what you are looking for...worth a look though

hope this helps

lyn
 
He does not appear to be listed under that name in the 1956 or 1962 Kellys. Might the shop have been called something else?
 
16.8.1864
I doubt if the safe manufacturer thought it necessary to instruct people not to drill holes in their safe

LOST_BY_FIRE.jpg
 
I think the greyhound may have been a valuable asset at the time with the popularity of coursing and the early days of greyhound track racing. Maybe a gentleman had taken a fancy to the Carpenter's Arms greyhound as a future investment or for breeding. Or maybe the 'owner' was trying it on.

The little boy who was poisoned is tragic. Sounds like foul play. Viv.


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18.8.1864

Further information as to Mr Hector's house in Old Square.

Not sure why the milk would suddenly start keeping for a shorter period of time , if that is the meaning of this notice


Mr_Hectors_house.jpg


shortness_of_keep.jpg
 
Maybe Aug 1864 was a very hot summer and the milk turned more quickly.



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22.8.1864
Horse stabbing in Burbury street. A couple of days later there was another story that it had happened again.
Recycling is not a new event.

Horse_stabbing.jpg


recycling~0.jpg
 
what an awful thing to happen to those poor horses mike...hope they caught the culprits...

i wonder where abouts in burbury st the brickyard was as i dont think there were any properties built at the top end until the earliest 1870s so could have been the bottom end from gerrard st to bridge st west..

lyn
 
Lyn
On this not very good map (had to join two together) you can see that in c1890 there was an old clay pit to the east of Burbury st in the middle. would guess the brickyard was there.

mid_burbury_St_c_1890.jpg
 
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