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Midland Red Early Days

Here is another 19th century "omnibus interior" picture. It comes from this website about New York City, but the text doesn't specifically mention the picture. The artist's name is "Ferard", which sounds French, and the picture has something of a French flavour. There are definite erotic overtones here, too, with the unashamed display of tight leather shoes, ankles, and even calves (phew! :shocked:). The only other clue to the picture's provenance is its filename, which contains "St Nicholas" and "1891". I quite like it!
 
Thylacine said:
Aidan, thanks for the brighter view of the 1859 Egley: this must be the earliest omnibus interior that we have so far seen. Interesting advertising poster on the left hand side. ...
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I think it may be an early version of the now familiar "keep your d*** feet off the seats". Have you noticed the two top-hatted, ginger-haired, almost clown-like figures at the door? One is obviously the conductor and I wonder if the other is supposed to represent the driver come around back? I know the painting was staged but perhaps there was a well known team of brothers or twins operating one of the early Omnibuses?

The Ferard sketch is a corker, excellent find. They are both "boning" up on books. The string in the ceiling seems to be a method of the driver closing the door - is this the first recorded example of single-operator Bus? And if so how did they pay - I assume through a trap door arrangement in the ceiling towards the front? However, the dress (or lack of it as you rather disturbingly point out...) would point to a later date. I am no (French) dress expert but maybe first decade of C20th?

Forgot to mention before that the photo of Vera with her Vero "chest-Expander" is a wonderful shot of pre H&S and pre-removal of subsidy workers canteen. I think I read somewhere that their pre-eminence was post WWII austerity mixed with concern for building the fitness of the working person (ie NHS era, most large firms had them and the others used the national cafe/canteen chain Lyons?) but they seemed to live on for most of the century.

While we are being irredeemably unreconstructed, I attach another horse bus cartoon (apologies for it being the No.6 Islington to Elephant & Castle route). I actually get the joke this time... along with the horse bus to the wonderful land of Oz (somewhere down your way I think Thylacine?)
 
Interestingly the added plate on the Oldbury Garage sign (post #960) shows the 'phone number of Midland House, Vernon Road, Edgbaston (EDGbaston 4808) and must cover the Bearwood number of BEArwood 3030 (or the earlier 2020).

Again, I hope Mark (a leading light in the preservation of Midland Red Leyland National 101 [HHA 101L]) doesnt mind me 'borrowing' one of his views, this one of St Paul's Rd / Sabell Rd corner, Smethwick, to show how the whole north eastern side of Smethwick's main shopping area was wiped off the map when the Smethwick Centre relief road (Tollhouse Way) was built. Compare 1980s to today.
 
Aidan said:
The Ferard sketch is a corker, excellent find... The string in the ceiling seems to be a method of the driver closing the door - is this the first recorded example of single-operator Bus? And if so how did they pay - I assume through a trap door arrangement in the ceiling towards the front?
Click to expand...

The 'string' is in fact a bell-cord, for signalling the driver to stop (The idea was used on all Midland Reds pre WW2, so it's OK to mention here! Other operators used them as well, including London Transport - and they're being re-introduced in New York) plus the useful extra that the bell will ring if the door is opened whilst the bus is moving. Is this the first instance of exit door warnings to the driver, now a legal requirement on all PSVs?
 
Lloyd said:
The 'string' is in fact a bell-cord, for signalling the driver to stop ...
Click to expand...

That brings back memories! :) The bell-cord was universal on New South Wales Government buses in Sydney when we first moved to Australia in 1964, and remained so for many years. At first I thought it was a primitive relic (compared with the Midland Red push-button) but I soon got used to (and quite fond of) the "string".
 
Lloyd said:
... Smethwick's main shopping area was wiped off the map when the Smethwick Centre relief road (Tollhouse Way) was built ...
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Interesting comparative views, Lloyd. At least they lined the new road with greenery. Just a thought, but I wonder if the Google street views will be updated frequently (it must have been a very expensive process); or will they gradually become "classic views" in themselves?
 
"Horse bus to the wonderful land of Oz"? via the Yellow Brick Road, perhaps?
Quite why this picture of an Italian midget theatre's advertising car should be in the Deutsches Bundesarchiv (German Federal Archive) I cannot imagine, but it is also on p. 312 of "Milano Sparita IV "where it is captioned "La carrozza pubblicitaria del 'Teatro Lilipuziani' a Milano, nell'ottobre 1930."
 
Came across this in a charity shop book I bought on my recent travels - I bought it just for this image as it is clearly of the Harborne Route and standing just around the corner from the Duke of York. The book dates it at 1913 but can you tell me anymore please?
 
Wow!

Good heavens! He comes back from "oop North" with a remarkable new (to me at least) picture of a very remarkable Midland Red bus! It is O9926 (1912 Tilling-Stevens 40 hp petrol-electric TTA2 chassis number 29 with Brush O18/16RO body number BB26). It passed to Birmingham Corporation Transport as fleet number 26 on 5 October 1914 under the "Birmingham Agreement". The body amazingly survives to this day (in BCT livery) at the BaMMOT museum at Wythall. I'm not sure of the location, but fellow TTA2 O9913 is seen below in what looks very much like the same place.

I love the "FULL UP" sign, which is a bit of an exaggeration!

Lloyd will know exactly where it is. Have you seen Aidan's picture before Lloyd?

[Thanks for bringing MRED back home, Aidan! ;)]
 
Wow - they are almost identical and certainly at the same location - and I think the same day if the "John Bull - Beware" sign is a newspaper advert and not long after/before as the newspapers folded in the doorway have not shifted (although the bystander with flatcap just outside the door has). TTA2 O9913 seems to have the "go-faster" windshield accessory too, and why does it have a different logo on it's radiator?

(somewhat out of date) streetview https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&...ANlrIwM5yWGTK_SgKCDqew&cbp=12,349.36,,0,12.05 with modern housing on left that has replaced the dear old Duke of York pub and bombshell where the licensed Newsagents was (this was modern care flats last time I looked - either they have fallen down or streetview needs a refresh as you commented before)
 
Wow that's a fantasic find Aiden. As you say, this was at the junction of the western end of Harborne High Street with Lordswood Road, the Duke of York pub now replaced with retirement flats and Sadler's newsagents (which I remember being derelict for decades, possibly partially hidden by advert hoardings) redeveloped into flats and offices.
This bus, and the routes withing the city boundaries were taken over by Birmingham Corporation in 1914, the Harborne route becoming the number 4.

The bus's colours were red lower deck body, staircase and bonnet, black upper deck, chassis and wheels.
 
I agree they're taking at almost the same time, and very early in the buses' lives - the lifeguards between the front and rear wheels aren't fitted yet. Wonder if it's the first day of the Harborne route?
Don't know why the difference in radiator top tank logos - but both are for Tilling Stevens vehicles, have seen versions with the small badge elsewhere.

Are the two men posing by the buses brothers? They look very alike, and stand in the same fashion.
 
Must make time to get up to Wythall next time I'm in Brum.

Interesting to see that there is still a bus-stop on Lloyds Streetview (wonder why my streetview is so dated?)

The theory that the pics are the first day of the Harborne motorised service seems most plausible - any idea of a date for that? The buses seem to be queueing up to have their pic taken and start off down the High St - any idea how many there would have been on that day to fulfil the timetable and would they all have started from the same place I wonder or did they have a synchronised start in Town also? Can we find a pic of the other bus(es) on that day? It must be autumn or spring to explain the types of coat but can't explain the ankle-nipping trousers. I guess many of the crew must have been drafted shortly after this and I wonder how many came back? So many questions for a Monday....
 
Aidan said:
... Can we find a pic of the other bus(es) on that day? ...
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Aidan, you don't want much do you? (You're the magician! ;))

Peter Hardy [BMMO Volume 1 1961 my emphasis] says:
"The motor bus, banished from Birmingham, was meeting with more success in other parts of the country and in 1911 the London General Omnibus Co Ltd, once with a stud of over 17,000 horses, ran its last horse bus. There was little wonder then that in 1912 BMMO decided once more to make a serious attempt to operate motor buses and the vehicles selected to inaugurate the services were Tilling-Stevens TTA1 30 hp petrol-electric double-deckers similar to those placed on the London streets by Thomas Tilling Ltd. The first arrived in Birmingham on 25 April 1912 and thirteen (registration O8200-8212) went into service in May 1912, six on the Harborne route and seven on Hagley Rd, all working from a garage at Tennant St (Birmingham). Seventeen more double-deckers (registration O9913-9929) followed in June 1912 this time with 40 hp engines (TTA2)."​
[So it was early summer, if we're seeing the TTA2s when they were new.]
 
Thanks Thylacine - this is a little problematic then. The conductor's coat of your pic seems to be of heavy overcoat variety rather than dark dustcoat which is overdressed for June even in the windier parts of Harborne. Can't think what else the occasion might be for unless there was 6months of training (seems unlikely given that the petrol-electric gearbox being easy to master was one of the selling points) or perhaps it was the unveiling of the Winter Timetable (come prepared to push up Harborne Hill). Wonder if Mikejee can work his directory magic and come up with a timetable for 1912...

It does seem likely that it was an occasion an so there should be similar shots of the other buses somewhere out there...

The Radiator logos intrigue me - do we have an image of the Tilling-Stevens logos (radiator or otherwise)?
 
BMMO Whistle!

Here's something you don't see every day! Perhaps we can use it the next time we wander too far off topic!
 
Have already looked, but the 1913 directory only seems to mention trams and omnibuses run by the corporation
Mike
 
Aidan said:
Wonder where the other end of the string was tied (basically - why/what for?).....
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If you mean the whistle, three possibilities come to mind [Lloyd added a couple of real uses]:

[1] For conductors to signal drivers e g when reversing;
[2] To quieten a bus-load of noisy school children
[3] For bossy inspectors at bus stations to "launch" the buses.
[4] For Midland Red sporting fixtures.
[5] For guest gigs with the Midland Red Salon Orchestra.​
;)
 
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Re: BMMO Whistle!

Thylacine said:
Here's something you don't see every day! Perhaps we can use it the next time we wander too far off topic!
Click to expand...
Well, there was a time I did see (or at least hear) one of these quite often! All conductors were issued with Acme 'Thunderer' whistles for signalling to the driver, for instance when standing behind a bus watching them reversing at a terminus. I've heard one put to good use quietening a group of rowdy children on an afternoon school journey, too!
 
Thylacine said:
Tilling-Stevens TTA1 30 hp petrol-electric double-deckers...thirteen (registration O8200-8212) went into service in May 1912, six on the Harborne route and seven on Hagley Rd, all working from a garage at Tennant St (Birmingham). Seventeen more double-deckers (registration O9913-9929) followed in June 1912 this time with 40 hp engines (TTA2)."
Click to expand...

I was forgetting this important detail. Why thirteen - and then seventeen? Well, after the arrival of the first few, they were found to be terribly underpowered for Birmingham's hilly routes so the order was changed, more powerful engines being required.
The TTA2 was somewhat of a stopgap improvement, using basically the same chassis but more powerful engines than the 30hp TTA1 and a larger radiator mounted at the front of the chassis (the TTA1's already in service later had larger radiators fitted, still behind the engine).
The slightly later still TS3 type, soon to be the mainstay of the early Midland Red fleet, were more powerful still (50hp I think) and their radiators featured a larger bottom tank to hold a greater reservoir of coolant, and both tanks featured extra cooling fins in their castings (see the link in post #984 above).

The TTA1 remained the Thomas Tilling company's standard bus in London and Brighton, their main areas of operation until the TS3 type came along - they ran no TTA2's.
 
Tennant Street is a long one paralleling Broad St for about half the latters length - is there any pics of it that I have missed by any chance?
 
So presumably, Lloyd, the TTA2 demonstrator (reg DG452) we see (twice) at the top of page 24 of Midland Red Volume 1 (on the Harborne service) was with Midland Red before the TTA2 order arrived in Jun 1912? DG452 has the "Midland" fleetname, so was it the first such?
 
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