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Midland Red Early Days

Hi Mike, and welcome the thread! Thanks for posting those fascinating and historic Midland Red documents. The title "Midland Red and Railways Joint Motor Services" is a sign of the 24 April 1930 purchase by LMSR and GWR of a 50% shareholding in Midland Red (from Birmingham and District Investment Trust Ltd).
 
Th 'demonstrator' is actually one of the batch of 17 - the DG 452 registration is a trade plate.
 
This later and repro sign seems to indicate that the text on the radiator is the brand, if so the other logo is perhaps an earlier logo and hence points to the second Harborne Bus pic being one of the earlier batch? I believe Tilling-Stevens got took over by the monumental Rootes Group in the 1950's who themselves got subsumed by Chrysler then Peugeot this century.

There is an archive at https://tardis.dl.ac.uk/ARCC/catalogue.shtml#tilling but they don't seem to have anything pre-TS3...
 
Actually, it's a strange one. Most early trade plates followed the style of 'registration area, company, number' (O-WY-13 would be the 13th plate issued to Wolseley in Birmingham, for instance) but DG was a Gloucestershire index (Apr 1930 to Sep. 1934) so the real use is a mystery.
OG was Birmingham, but not until c1930.
D was Kent ( Dec. 1903 to Jun. 1913) and Tilling chassis were made in Maidstone, Kent, so it's probably from there - but what does the G signify? And why isn't there a gap or hyphen between the letters?
 
oops - sorry Lloyd - we all seem to be crashing into each others posts today - what d'ya know nothing for days then 3 pages come all at once....
 
Re: BMMO Whistle!

Thylacine said:
Here's something you don't see every day! Perhaps we can use it the next time we wander too far off topic!
Click to expand...

How about these branded Wheel Chocks for esoteric - according to Wheels.co.uk they were unique to the Birmingham and Midland Motor Omnibus Company (Midland Red) they were once to be found as part of original equipment on all BMMO produced buses and coaches - usually located to the left of the driver and provided a perfect rest for the left foot!

We have already discussed Vero's but here is a closeup too from ticketmachinewebsite.com
 
Re: Tilling-Stevens radiator logo.

From the pictures we have seen of the TTA2s, "DG452" (whatever its registration ended up as), O9913 and O9923 have the "classic" logo; O9926 and O9932 have the "small ellipse" logo, seen most clearly in the picture in Midland Red Volume 1 (page 24 lower left): perhaps Lloyd will be kind enough to upload this picture.

Re: Tennant Street garage.

Midland Red Volume 2 (page 138) has two pictures: [upper right] eight TTA1s (including O8204) lined up outside the garage c 1912; [lower right] the garage "staff car" (horse and trap) in 1906 with performing dog - this picture shows some interesting signage. [Uploads, please, Lloyd?]

There's another mystery concerning TTA1s O8200-8212 and TTA2s O9913-9936: who built the bodies? Midland Red Volume 1 unequivocally says Thomas Tilling, whereas BMMO Volume 1 says Brush in one place and "Brush or Tilling" in another. Is the MR Vol 1 statement definitive, Lloyd, or is there still some doubt about this?
 
In answer to Aidans question, the red building must be the garage in Tennant st. Now it seems to be a car park near the road, and housing behind
mike
 
Here is O 9932 (Midland Red 32, later A.3) at the Stag and Three Horseshoes, Quinton c 1913 and a close-up (or as good as I can from a printed page) of the radiator badge.
 
Tilling TTA1s and a trap in Tennant Street. (Done to a T?)

The signs aren't that clear, but seem to say:
The Birmingham and Midland Tramways Ltd
Orders taken here for
Four Horse Coaches Charabancs and Omnibuses
(can't properly read the next line - could be "Available on shortest notice")
[For] Private Parties.

There is a blackboard on the wall headed "Country Drives" and "Special Trips" with illegible chalked words beneath.
 
Thanks Thylacine, Mike & Lloyd for the lovely pics and maps. Guess we need to chalk up the Radiator logos as unsolved mystery for the moment
 
That radiator logo is still bugging me - the Tilling-Stevens brand name appears moulded ie part of the fabric of the radiator housing where as the smaller logo seems to be screwed/riveted on to a plain radiator and I can only think that indicates an earlier design (ie before they settled on the logo and tooled up to produce it). As the Reg numbers do not match this hypothesis, perhaps the simple answer is that they had had their radiators replaced with an earlier stock part.

I have checked the index, honest, but can't find if this has been on before - I was intrigued by this anonymous chain-drive vehicle https://forum.birminghamhistory.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4244&highlight=steam+vehicles and wondered if with the passage of years any more had been found about it?
 
Aidan, that supposed 1897 Birmingham Motor Omnibus Company vehicle is a complete mystery that has baffled all the "usual experts". The only thing I could think of was that it was an experimental vehicle of the Birmingham General Omnibus Co Ltd, which was active 1897-1899 (as a horse bus operator), and reserved powers "to operate motor cars on any ... routes whenever it may be demonstrated that it will be profitable to do so" (Hardy). There is no direct evidence for this whatsoever; I am only going by circumstantial evidence of time-frame and similarity of name.

[If you can remove the veils of obscurity from this pioneering little Brum motor bus, you will be (even more of) a hero! ;)]
 
Great Wythall Pictures!

Virusman26 has posted a lovely collection of photographs he took at the Transport Museum (Wythall) recently. Highly recommended to all our readers. ;)
 
I have just spent some time trying to fathom the mysteries of the Steam Bus thread and feel a little light relief (and a wee dram) is called for but as this offering is not steam powered it fits in better over here. (sinks beverage provided by Scottish distilled steam - Cheers chaps).
 
Midland Red Buys Fords 1921.

In 1921, Midland Red Chief Engineer Loftus George Wyndham Shire began to think about a lighter and livelier vehicle than the Tilling-Stevens petrol-electric TS3, which then dominated the fleet. Competing operators were beginning to put small American buses and charabancs into service, so after exploring the market Shire purchased two Ford model "T" chassis (fleet numbers A218-219), fourteen imported Garford Motor Truck Co chassis (A241-254), and a Tilling-Stevens TS4B (A255) with orthodox gearbox transmission.

The Fords were an unusual but attractive addition to the Midland Red fleet. Anorakian details are:

Fleet numbers A218-219 (manufactured November 1920; registered OE7306-7307; chassis numbers 4596071, 4596042; 11-seat charabanc bodies numbered C10-11, made by the otherwise unknown T Pass; sold 1924).

They were purchased from a Coventry dealer named Runciman, and were the first Midland Red service vehicles with pneumatic tyres. OE7306 was based at Leamington or Banbury, OE7307 at Worcester. Shire is said to have been impressed with their straightforward design and reliability. One of the Fords later became a Bearwood staff car. The identitiy of the buyer(s) in 1924 is not revealed to us. Experience gained with these vehicles contributed towards the development of Midland Red's own SOS chassis in 1923. Fords would not again grace the Midland Red fleet until almost half a century later, when a batch of R192s were purchased in 1970.

Midland Red Volume 1 has pictures of OE7306 (page 45 top right) and OE7307 (page 44, and page 45 top and bottom left). One of the OE7307 pictures is attached below. Peter W has posted another picture of this charabanc here.
 
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Strange the the Model T, so successful in a range of guises and for a number of reasons including mentioned reliability and cost, didn't make it with Midland Red - any idea why?

Any pics of the more numerous but similarly unsuccessful Garfords? (char-a-banc version preferred, natch!).
* This catalogue from what looks like a little later is all I can find https://digital.hagley.org/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/p268001coll12&CISOPTR=490&REC=20
* Adelaide seemed to go a bundle on them too https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trams_in_Adelaide#Decline_of_the_network
* Couple of Garford Fire Engines , first a Model-15 from 1918 (to you Aussie$30000) and the other a Garford-Pumper-Sydney von Germany of 1926
 
Aidan, the Midland Red Garfords have been discussed briefly elsewhere, but it won't hurt to give them the full "Thylacine treatment" here! [As usual, corrections, additions and comments are welcome.]

In 1922 Mildand Red purchased fourteen 20 hp chassis with pneumatic tyres, from the Garford Motor Truck Co (Lima, Ohio, US; established in 1903 by Arthur L Garford as the Federal Manufacturing Co). Anorakian details:

Fleet numbers A241-254 (registered HA2318-2331; chassis numbers 251101, 25871, 25874, 251060, 251067, 251063, 25863, 251110, 25877, 25875, 251069, 25864, 251281, 25851; all except HA2330 sold or broken up 1925). HA2318-2323 were given Davidson 18-seat charabanc bodies (C18-23). Of these, HA2321 later (c 1930) passed to Serpell & Co (Reading) as a van. HA2324-2329 and HA2331 received various capacity bus bodies by Carlyle (i e Midland Red): B15F (HA2325-2326); B20F (HA2324, HA2327-2329); B24F (HA2331). Of these, the 24-seater HA2331 was sold to Potteries Electric Traction Co Ltd in 1925. HA2330 was a spare chassis that was never bodied and never entered service. It was broken up in February 1923.

Midland Red Volume 1 has numerous Garford pictures on pp 45-47. Attached below are pictures of 24-seater HA2331 (seen at Bearwood garage when new in December 1922) and 15-seat "minibus" HA2326 seen in good company at Tamworth Twogates garage in 1922. The latter picture is remarkable in that it is the only known picture of either of the 15-seat Garford buses. There is at least one picture of a Garford charabanc out there, Aidan, but I don't have it. Perhaps Lloyd can do the honours.
 
I wouldn't say that the Fords and Garfords were unsuccessful exactly, though they had fairly short service lives with Midland Red. Wyndham Shire was determined to manufacture his own buses, so these "outsiders" soon fell by the wayside, but would have provided important information to the fledgling bus manufacturer. Midland Red would not buy new "outsiders" for many years.

Nice "Midland Red" fire engines by the way! :) And thanks for that wonderful Garford Catalogue ("Are you taking care of Boomville?"), and the Adelaide example. Lovely finds!
 
Ah - I see, a little bit of practical espionage and I guess Brum was a kind of "Boomville" then! Lovely pics and surely Tamworth captures the last time a US vehicle is towered over by a British one.
 
Garford Giant.

Here is a marvellous picture of a gargantuan Garford log truck from the state of Washington. Observe that it is right hand drive. I half-inched this picture from Dan Brock's interesting (if a little disturbing) "Weapons, Warfare and Industrial Idiocy" website. (I hope he doesn't come after me with one of his knives! :shh:). The second picture is the 1919 specification of what appears to be basically the same vehicle ($5,000 was a lot of money in those days).
 
Surviving marque records show that the Ford T chassis were constructed in November 1920 (4526542-4617928 were that month's numbers - incidentally, Ford at the time used the engine number as the vehicle identifier [VIN today] and after assembly this number was also stamped on the chassis frame. Of course far more engines than complete chassis were constucted, making te claim of "Over 15 million Model T's built" a little inaccurate).
Garfords - some of the chassis were longer than others, I don't know if they were built that way or converted before bodying by BMMO. Here's A241, HA 2318 with 'coach' body C18.
 
Thanks for that excellent picture (a rare one of a charabanc with hood extended and "tied down"), and interesting notes, Lloyd. And there is that mysterious "36x" number!

Garfords did come in various sizes, according to the fascinating catalogue discovered by Aidan (post #1012).

The Garfords, while quite compact, don't appear to me to be exactly "lightweight" - decidedly rugged, in fact. I wonder how Shire came to decide on the Garford make?
 
Tilling-Stevens TS4B

Lloyd, what do you know about the Midland Red 1922 Tilling-Stevens TS4B (A255 reg HA2332)? Does a picture exist?
 
Who Was Arthur Lovett Garford?

The founder of the Garford Motor Truck Co was Arthur Lovett Garford (1858-1933). He was the son of George Garford (who was born in Northamptonshire) and Hannah Lovett (who was born in Leicestershire). This links him rather nicely with the Midlands! Like many early motor manufacturers, he started off making bicycles: his first fortune was made from the invention of the padded bicycle seat. Apart from his manufacturing business, he was an aspiring politician for the Republican and Progressive parties. He ran unsuccessfully for Governor of Ohio in 1912, and for US Senator from Ohio in 1914. Pictured below are:

[1] A L Garford c 1912 (on the left) with Progressive California Governor Hiram Johnson (1866-1945).
[2] The first Garford factory, built in 1905 in Elyria, Ohio.
[3] The Garford home (509 Washington Avenue, Elyria, Ohio), now on the US Register of Historic Places.
[4] A signed portrait of A L Garford, taken from Harriet Taylor Upton's History of the Western Reserve Volume II (Chicago and New York: The Lewis Publishing Co, 1910).
 
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