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Kynoch's I M I 1950s Onwards

  • Thread starter Thread starter shannon
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Boss's Name.

:DanceBallerina2: Di. Would it have been Mr Bolton?. My mom always spoke highly of him saying he was the best boss you could have wished for. Moms name was Edna. There are four women by the name of Lill on the photo. If anyone wants to have a bit of fun they can play around with my photo's. TTFN. Jean.:DanceBallerina2:
 
Play around with my pics.

:P Forgot to say. They are on the weightwatchers thread started by Alph. Jean. Must get going now. Off for a few days rest. Jean.:P
 
Jean's group photo

Great photo, Jean, and obviously a happy occasion. It is so clear that almost every face should in theory be identifiable. I never worked at Witton but some of them are recognisable even to me.

It was obviously taken in front of the main entrance of the main, original Witton office block. Di may be right and perhaps it is 1950s but I should go for early sixties, probably post-1962, as I suspect my father would otherwise have been on it. It looks to me like a retirement celebration, presumably of the gentleman in the middle of the front row, holding the hand of a young girl - a grand-daughter perhaps. And the gentleman looks as though he could have been one of the Works chauffeurs. This might account for the number of directors present on the photo, together with all the others who are probably mainly HQ staff. I can identify one director with certainty, the gentleman on the extreme right, second row from the back is Dr. W.H.G. Lake. Behind him, extreme right, back row is, I suspect, T.G. Austin, Personnel Director. Front row, second from right and looking to his right, could well be R. Crane, a later Asst. M.D. And T.H. Gallie, standing immediately behind the lady in front of whom the girl is standing.

Other identifications involve a bit more quesswork. I think that the gentleman second from the left, extreme back row and looking as though he had recently returned form a good holiday, might be B.W.E. Pearson, a senior personnel executive. Next to him, to the right and with face partly concealed, could be St. John Elstub, M.D. and later Chairman. The wearer of the buttonhole might be C. Fenby, but I'm not certain. Others I recognise but cannot name. There MUST be other forum members who can put names to some of these many faces.

What a cheerful group and a nice record, especially for the family of the star of the proceedings.

Chris.

PS Where did it come from, Jean?
 

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Hi

Kynoch Photo Group
Yes Chris you are the Champion of ICI. Yes the far
right is JS Clay he signed my Indentures. I think next
to him is R.P. Mccouloch. He was the MD when I was there.
Should remember the Personnel guy's I was for a while the
Apprentice rep on the Factory Committee.
Mccouloch chaired these meetings.
It may have been a Top guns secretary retiring.
John Elstub is there with a carnation in his button hole.

Mike Jenks
 
Thanks Mike the director I knew is St John Elstub.:)

Maybe I am wrong with the date, because if it was the 50's I think Michael Clapham would have been there and the MD at the time, name of Beeching.

Do any of you guys remember Charles? Dodgson, he was personnel I think, and I worked for him, on loan, once . He wanted help to work out an apprentice bonus scheme. I sat with a slide rule for about a month. Best job I ever had, I knew him because he came to Tenbury Wells to the works camp, and he took a few of us in his Land Rover on a day trip into Wales. The camp song was 'You'll never go to Heaven' and we sang You'll never go to heaven in Doddies Car, 'cause Doddies car won't go that far. He roared when we sang it.
 
hi

Yes Charles Dobson. he interviewd me for my
Apprenticeship in March 1959. The personnel
department was near the Wellhead Lane Gate.
Bob Taylor was the Head of the Apprenticeship School
near the Rod Mill.
Beeching was Head of ICI group based in London.
I never saw him at Witton.

Mike Jenks.
 
Mike...

I misled you rather. Initially I thought the gentleman on the extreme right was Mr. Clay but later had second thoughts and changed it to Dr. Lake of whom I am 99% certain. They were not dissimilar in appearance.

My fading memory and decaying brain are much assisted by a photo of the Board in 1962 which I attach, as well as the associated caption. Dr. Beeching had left by then (he was Chairman of Metals Division for a period and was an ICI Main Board director) and was presumably limbering up for his next challenge, to decimate the railways. St. John Elstub (a one time RAF bomber pilot) had stepped up following his previous M.D. role and is shown in the group photo and also in another one with a very distinguished visitor in 1957. I don't think he was the one with the carnation.

Mr. Dodgson was certainly associated with Personnel as you and Di say. I think he was in the RN during the war and was sometimes still known by his rank, Commander Dodgson. I never met him but I went to school in Sutton with his son.

Mr. R.P. McCullough's responsibilities were I believe for all the site and its services - ranging from dentists and physiotherapists to plasterers and electricians, from security and the fire service to power generation and the sports facilities. In their heyday these activities totalled some 1700 people and a huge budget. His title would have been something like Kynoch Works Manager or Manager - Site and Services. There's a picture of him below from 1961.

IMI is at present the subject of takeover rumours in the City.

Chris
 
Yes Mike, the office by the the Wellhead Lane gate was where I spent my month. I had forgotten that he was often called Commander Dodgson. When he took us on the day trip into Wales it was to visit his son who was on a sailing course at Aberdovey. Gosh I didn't know I remembered that:)

Beeching was at Witton certainly until the mid '50's, and yes Chris he then went on to decimate the rail network.

Oh such carefree and very happy happy days.
 
Seeing the photo's that Jean and ChrisM posted has me thinking and recalling so many things. The grpup photo you posted Chris has a man with moustach's, he is also with the Queen Mother, I think he was Mr Prosser. He does slightly resemble Mr Elstub, man with carnation.:)

There was another director who drove a sports car, it might have been a Jaguar, Walter Ismay. He drove in, vroom vroom, through the Witton gates and parked in front of Paper box.
 
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Di...

The man standing second from the right in the front of the Queen Mother photo is certainly St. J. Elstub. Whilst I obviously defer to those like you and Mike who probably saw Mr. Elstub on many more occasions than I did, I think we are being confused by "the bloke with the carnation". I am 99% certain that he is someone else and not St.J.E. The latter, I am pretty sure, is on the back row of the group photo, partly obscured.

If I am right about the dating of the group photo Mr. Prosser (Chairman 1953-1955) had retired by then and so does not appear. I have other images of him, though.

The name of Ismay unfortunately rings no bells.

Here's another image of the Royal visit, showing St.J.E. again and taken at almost the same time.

Chris
 
The name of Frank Bolton/Boulton certainly rings a bell although I could not put a face to it. I THINK he had a personnel role, probably for payroll employees.

Chris
 
:) Chris. My mom used to talk about Chrissie in the office. There was also a Doris Bellhouse who used to work for Mrs Kelly. My mom was pastry cook at the Witton end. Her name was Edna Lyndon. There was also Lill Turner Lill Waring Lill Gladstone and another Lill who's name won't come to mind at the moment. TTFN. jean. :(
 
Hello all

I'm now living in London, but I used to live on the Aldridge Road as a child growing up in the late 80s/early 90s. I thought I would google "munitions factory Witton" and see what I would find and got this rather extensive forum as a result.

In 1991-3 the new Holford estate, the River Tame and its old bridges, and the old Unigate/Dairy Crest site were where my peers and I would 'play' out. More interesting, was the part of the Holford estate left undeveloped at this time. It was still very extensive and is now what I can recognise as derelict IMI/Kynoch's factories (though IMI were also active on some parts of this site nearer to Witton at this time). What stuck out most were the abandoned live bullets left lying around the factories even in the 90s! My friends took pleasure in dropping stones on them (whilst I stood well back!). But it was fascinating, if somewhat dangerous, walking around these abandoned factories and their offices. I remember reading through abandoned paperwork and being in awe of the abandoned desks with lamps and unusual machinery and the general fabric of the factories - it was very eery and atmospheric. As children, we ignored the contaminated land signs and were often chased by the Group4 security teams from Holford estates - although we knew that place better than them so never got caught!

In some of the factories, extractor systems or small generators were still heard to be running even though they had long been abandoned. I remember one factory that had miles of pits containing a green sludge which even us children realised was an environment we shouldn't spend too long in.

Over the last 10 years I have noticed from the M6 (where it crosses the River Tame near the old Containerbase) that the site has been redeveloped as an extension of the Holford Estate with new white warehouse units.

I sometimes wonder if that contaminated 'playground' has taken years off my life (!), but it was great fun and I'm sure it was my adventures on that site that have since given me my long term taste for industrial archaeology and history. It's certainly nice to have been the last generation to have seen this old Birmingham first hand.
 
That is so sad for those of us who worked there. It was a huge site, if you worked at Witton and lived in Perry Bar you needed to add 15 minutes to your journey time, that is how long it took to walk through the site.

To think of all of the factory as abandoned, not even cleared out, is not nice.:(

ChrisM, you have to be right about Elstub and Elstub:) After seeing the link by R.Paul R I was convinced. I wonder who is the chap with the carnation. That is going to puzzle me now..............
 
Welcome to the forum, Matt, and thanks for that fascinating contribution. You saw the tail end of what several people on this forum knew in its (long) heyday.

(I've mentioned before this online potted history).

Chris
 
Hi

A great article Mattm

The state of the place must of been awsome.
Amazing how so much ammunition was left lying around.
In my day's those plants known as A B and C Factory's
churned out billions of rounds.
My final job there was helping to create the dies and punches
for 7.62mm NATO rounds.
It took me hours to turn these top and botton dies I remember
they were made from very hard tool steel.
It envolved the use of a turning tool known as D Bit.
These you had to make yourself and the Bullit profile had
many curves and Rads on it. You had to take a lead cast
of the Die and check it on a shadow pantograph checking
machine. It required a mirror finnish inside the die.
It took hours to get them past Dai the toolroom inspector.
I think its where I got my grey hair from.
Happy Days

Mike Jenks
 
Edit. The images referred to have been lost.
:confused:Here are some retirement photo's from IMI Kynocks. See if you remember anyone?. Sorry only one has attatched will try again. Jean.:redface:
 
Jean,

I think you have only posted a thumbnail (4kb). Could you manage a bigger version, please?

Chris
 
Re: Munitions works

:) Frantic. My mom Edna worked in the canteen for several years. She was a pastry cook. Jean.:)
 
Re: Kynochs

mike jenks said:
Hi
Alway's be ICI to me. What a place A city within a City.
Spent 5 years there fro 1959 to 1964 as an Apprentice.
Attached an Article Carl Chinn used a few years ago
and updated a little.

Mike Jenks
Click to expand...
Am utilising your space on behalf of my husband (Brian) as he served his apprenticeship at IMI in the early 50's then after his national service he returned to IMI then moved to pastures new in 1965. His late father (Fred Price) first started work at Kings Norton Metals and then moved to IMI Witton where he was employed as Chief Planning Officer in the Rod Mill until his retirement in 1970.
Hopefully users of this network will have more news or anecdotes who may remember either my late father-in-law or my husband. Thank you Mike for allowing me to move into your territory as I am a computer nerd and just learning a few basics as I go along. :blush:
 
Edit. Images are unavailable.

:)Chris M. Been away for a few days. Have four more pics to put on of retirements. Pete rekons the photo's should enlarge like the ones on the Barr Beacon thread. Have a look at how good they have turned out. Have to wait till his lordship has got ten minutes as that is his thing. I havn't got a clue. Bye. Jean.:(
 
Thanks for those, Jean, great pictures. I hope you get some identifications.

(By the way, the first two expand but the second two for some reason don't).

Chris
 
Some happy designers in Autumn 1961. It amounts to about a year's salary per head - or a couple of Austin Minis - and so it's little wonder they are looking pleased.

Chris
 
Hi Folks,
Just found this site and thread. Thought I would post a photo of one bit of Kynock history that is alive and well. Hope it works,
Fred

View attachment 14459 Edit. Attachment not working.
 
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