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Gosta Green Through Duddeston

Phil. Good morning to you, I was about to post some maps which are as you describe. I feel positive that your cross is where number 9 should be.
The date in question is 1873 and Aston Road and I am sure you have got the right place.
I do know that sometimes a street will change, ie Coleman Street did run from Dartmouth Street to Henry Street but on another map it ran from Windsor Street to Bloomsbury Street. In my day it just ran from Windsor Street to Henry Street. I believe in what you say Phil and only just pondered over whether it was a miss print on the map about Aston Street going past Gosta Green to Bagot Street.
Thank You for your post Phil.
 
Lynn, as was pointed out you will never find a 'Betting Shop' or 'Bookies' in the Kelly's before about 1960 ish.
Before then they were illegal. There's thread abour 'Bookies' and a story (post #6) about my brother being a 'Runner' for George Silk
https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/index.php?posts/164/

I just found this:
1960: Game on for British betting shops
The government has given the go-ahead for betting shops to open for business from 1 May next year.

The move follows the introduction of the new Betting and Gaming Act.
The aim is to do away with archaic, restrictive and often inconsistent laws on gambling.
And from 1 January 1961 gambling for small sums will be legal for games of skill such as bridge.
As the Daily Telegraph newspaper's leader writer points out: "Weekly bridge clubs, meeting in the local hotel, will no longer have to settle up in the bus shelter."
And pubs will be allowed to introduce slot machines.
Off the streets
The government hopes legalising betting shops will take gambling off the streets and end the practice of bookmakers sending "runners" to collect from punters. At the moment, anyone who wants to place a bet on the horses has to demonstrate they have enough credit to set up an account with a bookmaker and do their dealings by telephone.
Click to expand...

Pom :angel:
 
thanks for that pom. yes dad still talks now about running to puts bets on for his dad on the quiet. what fun they had in those days. lol lyn
 
Perhaps this will help, or not. Attached is the entry for Aston st in Whites 1873 directory(probably means 1872), which seems to go from 42 Stafford St to Gosta Green, and no 9 is golden lion yard and occupied by thomas shaw, victualler.
mike

1873_astonst.jpg
1873_astonst2.jpg
1873_astonst3.jpg
​
 
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Sorry, got me streets & roads mixed up. The same directory gives no 9 Aston Road as being George Walker ,tobacconist, 10 buildings before Holt st if you are going from Gosta Green
mike
 
Heres a pub in Nechells / Vauhall I don't remember. The photo was taken in 1959 so although I was too young to drink at the time, I must have passed it a thousand times.

Its the Globe that stood on the corner of Barrack St and Vauxhall Rd opposite the Co op Dairy. You can see a lorry with the milk churns parked outside having done their delivery I suppose the driver and his mate were inside having a liquid lunch. All that sort of delivery is done by tanker these days I imagine.

Phil

NechellsGlobeBarrackSt-VauxhallRd1959.jpg
 
Phil. A lovely photograph of the Globe at Barrack Street corner. I shall have to go out and buy myself a laminator and do some print outs.
Thank you for restored memories Phil.
 
Ernie,

Here's another one for you, looks like it was taken whilst they were building the tower blocks down by Loxton St School its dated 1954. You can just make out part of Bloomsbury St Library and Bloomsbury St School. As usual you can't miss Saltley Gasworks in the background.

Phil

NechellsGreatListerSt1954-1.jpg
 
Phil. I left Loxton Street school at the end of 1953 and did not get down that end after that. I still pop in to thje library when I am down that way.
Another great Photograph.
 
Enrnie

You might know some of these lads then, they were the 51-52 football team from Loxton Street School.

Phil

NechellsLoxtonStPrimarySchoolFootballTeam1951-52.jpg
 
Phil. I had seen the photo before and could not recognize anyone I am sorry to say. Looking at it more closely this time I see on the board I can make out Primary School. I went to Loxton Street Secondry Modern school at the age of 11.
I also did not recogize any of the teachers, they were over the wall so to speak.
THANK YOU for the posting anyway.
 
I came across this, not sure if it was posted before or that it can be seen clearly.
Saltley Washwood heath road .jpg
Click on original then click again to enlarge.
 
Ernie,

I haven't seen it before, its very plain and easily readable and with your permission I have taken a copy for possible future use.

Whilst we are in the locality of Saltley, have you see either of these two photo's before. Adderley Park and Adderley Park library. I remember the park well and also I remember the library.

One thing you can say about the Victorians was, "they built well and to last". The only thing they didn't reckon on was people would come along and tear them down just to put some horrible edifice in its place.

Phil

SaltleyAdderleyParkLibrary1965.jpg
....
SaltleyAdderleyParkLibrary1913.jpg
 
Phil. I do remember Adderley Park quite well, Hams Road circling round and rising at the back with all the houses overlooking the park. I shall see if I can post a little more about the park tomorrow.
SORRY I may have got confused with Vauxhall Gardens.
 
Ernie

I await your comments on Adderley Park in anticipation, On another matter completely, early on the thread you posted a pic of Silks Café. You said at the time that you didn't remember it being on Great Lister St.

I came across the same photo in a book I am reading and the information is, George Silks Coffee House, Henry St was opened by his father c1934 and had previously been a grocers shop and a public house. In the 1960's he opened a bookies next to the café, but that would have been after you left the area. The photo was taken in 1967.

I checked it out on Kelly's and Silks was at 108 Henry St on the west side on or near to the junction with Coleman St.

Here is another photo, of slightly better quality than the one you posted.

Phil

NechellsSilksBookiesandCafeHenryStColmanSt1967.jpg
 
hi ya pmc, was,nt the cafe by the corner of Rupert st by the cast iron toilets? and you mentioned bookies i keep asking if anyone remembers billy weir the bokkie in cromwell st and know one comes back with anything?? regards dereklcg
 
Phil. Your photograph, if it is just past the bus stop in Great Lister Street I am a little forgetful of it being there, but I think Silk's may have been around the corner in Henry Street across the road from the Cast Iron toilets in the Cul-de-sac. It was very interesting what was there before Silk's Cafe at the corner of Coleman Street and Henry Street. I should like to know more if there is any more.
Derek. Hope we are not confusing each other.
 
Derek,

I have to be honest and say that I don't know. All I can tell you is when that photo was supposed to have been taken in 1967 (which I have to be honest seems rather late to me, I thought it was all flattened by then) it was stated to be in Henry Street.

I checked the address in Kelly's and that was correct, but the latest copy I have is 1950.

Knowing that a lot of these photo's have the wrong details on them I wouldn't be surprised if it was an earlier photo, it does seems more likely to me. It is entirely possible that after his shop was demolished in about 1964-65 that he moved to Great Lister St.

I'm sorry but I have no recollection of a Billy Weir Bookmakers in Cromwell St and my Kelly's directories do not run that late.

Phil
 
As far as I can remember Silk's went from the corner of Coleman Street and Henry Street to just around the corner in Great Lister Street by the bus stop to town, then the next move was across the road into the Cul-de-sac of Henry Street. I am unsure of anything else.
 
pmc1947 said:
Derek,

I have to be honest and say that I don't know. All I can tell you is when that photo was supposed to have been taken in 1967 (which I have to be honest seems rather late to me, I thought it was all flattened by then) it was stated to be in Henry Street.

I checked the address in Kelly's and that was correct, but the latest copy I have is 1950.

Knowing that a lot of these photo's have the wrong details on them I wouldn't be surprised if it was an earlier photo, it does seems more likely to me. It is entirely possible that after his shop was demolished in about 1964-65 that he moved to Great Lister St.

I'm sorry but I have no recollection of a Billy Weir Bookmakers in Cromwell St and my Kelly's directories do not run that late.

Phil
Click to expand...
hi phill,it may be me we were all young then and not much mattered,where we lived and such you did and that was that,i lived as you probably have seen in Cromwell
st just off grt lister st almost opp st Mathews church.
we had a bookies runner used to stand on the corner and billy weir was a couple of doors away from us at number 3 i used to fetch his fags from butts tobacconists in grt lister st,you would think it would be remembered by someone? it may turn up one day my sister can relate to the what i,m saying never mind. cheers mate catch you later regards derek.
 
1956. George T Silk coffee rooms 66-67 Gt Lister St
1964 G,T, Silk cafe and Turf commission agent 226 Gt Lister St.
Mike
 
Mikejee & Ernie

The 1950’s copy of Kelly’s that I have cites 66-67 Great Lister St as Mrs Deborah Wilson Greengrocer and 108 Henry St as George Silk Dining Rooms. It is obvious that sometime between 1950 and 1957 Silks moved to Great Lister St. I think at that time Ernie was just moving out of the area, and during that period I moved in. I have to be honest I have no personal memory of Silks Café.

I have to say it does not surprise me that another topographical book has got things wrong. You would think as this one “Developing Birmingham 1889 to 1989” having been produced by Birmingham City Council Development Department. The people responsible for tearing the heart out our city, they might have got thing right.

As there is a little write up about Henry St, I will reproduce it here for Ernie’s benefit, as I have already acknowledged the publication and it is only a tiny part of the book and I do not intend to reproduce it verbatim and it is a mixture of my words and theirs. I am sure they won’t mind.

This supposedly describes Henry St in 1967, but I am sure it had gone by then.

“ To town planners a street is only a line on a map, but to people who live in that street, it is something more. For some many generations have grown up in that street. Henry Street is such a street, ordinary with paint peeling off the houses and children squatting in the doorways. But it has memories.

You can walk into Silks Coffee shop, and you will revive some of those memories from George Silk the owner who took over from his father who opened the shop 43 years ago (from the date of the book publication). It had previously been a public house and a grocers shop.

Pigeon racing was a favourite sport of men in Henry Street in the days when George’s father kept the café. 200 to 300 fanciers would collect outside his shop every Sunday morning to cheer home their birds at the end of the weekly race from The Fox & Goose Washwood Heath.

A rat pit was another sports attraction the sport minded residents of Henry Street. People in Henry St would stick together. When the men had a game of cards on the footpath they always posted a sentry to watch out for the police. When they were spotted approaching each man dived for shelter in the nearest house, be it his own house or not.

Perhaps Henry St can be summed up in the words of George Silks mother. We always believed in being good neighbours. Some of the folks may have been a bit rough and ready but they helped each other in times of trouble. We just did not like being interfered with by strangers.”

In my opinion a bit of a fanciful description, but I do think it has merit and holds a few truths, I hope you enjoy it Ernie.

Phil
 
I enjoyed reading it as well Thanks Phil. Hadn't come accross the book you mentioned before.
Mike
 
Phil. Just got around to noticing the great photo on post No.513, thats fabulous thanks. I used to live in Queens Tower, and also went to Loxton St. School. So thanks again mate. Barry.
 
Phil. I am very pleased you posted it, if I can get to the library I shall see what I can find in Kelly's listings for that area. My gran was living there all those years ago ( I am particularity interested in anything before 1914) as it would help the area come alive again. My Grandfather kept pidgeons around the 1930's and I knew a number of people who kept them in the 1940's. It was a popular pastime in my day. Racers, Tumblers in days gone by, can anyone add to the list ?
 
Phil. Late 1955 to early 1956 George Silk was at 66 -67 Great Lister Street as I used the cafe. I moved away late 1956. It was sometime after this date that they moved across the road to the Henry Street Cul-de-sac.
 
mikejee said:
I enjoyed reading it as well Thanks Phil. Hadn't come accross the book you mentioned before.
Mike
Click to expand...


Mike

The book Birmingham City Council 1889 to 1989 a 100 years of City Planning. Produced in 1989 by Birmingham City Council Development Department.

If you can get hold of a copy either by purchasing or by borrowing from your local library, then do so. Apart from some obvious errors and there are one or two, it is a very interesting book.

Phil
 
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