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Bull Ring 1960s - 1980s

Oisin

gone but not forgotten
I'm guessing these are classed as "Old Brum" since the Bull Ring has been redeveloped since they were taken. I came across them in my archive of slides taken in 1992...

BullRing10a.jpg


BullRing09a.jpg


BullRing08a.jpg


BullRing07a.jpg


BullRing01a.jpg


BullRing03a.jpg


I think this bloke with the barra musta bin workin' on the lump as he wasn't too happy about having his picture taken. ::)
 
Or he hadn't sold any Flowers ;D Great photo's at for the time. What camera did you have then Oisin
 
Alf, I think it was an old Practica manual SLR with TTL metering. If I remember correctly I used a 70-200mm zoom and a 28mm lens for those shots.
 
My father used to have over 200 handcarts of all shapes and sizes for the barrow boys in the Bull Ring and lathe handcarts for the Rag and Bone men (Tatters) Basket carriages for the fish market and a few specialist barrows for the Jewellery quarter and window cleaners the rate was 10d or a shilling this was in the late forties early fifties His yard was in Sherlock street where I was born I can still remember the noise from the meat market in Cheapside my Dad is still alive and kicking and living in Ireland, we later moved to Hockley I went to school at Benson road then Handsworth New Road and left in 1961 the recession in the Bull Ring stalls instead of handcarts we then moved to Hereford and changed the business to farm equipment etc
 
Cromwell, do you mean the 'hawkers badge' the arm-band that they used to draw the 'pitch' they had for the day?


Micko I remember your fathers yard in Sherlock St, forgot the name though.
 
Nice collection Cromwell.

Do  you remember the arm badge I was talking about? there was always a policeman in attendance.
 
Did you work the markets Nick ? I was a barrow boy at the age of 15.....at Daniels before that RF Willis
dont remember the arm bands as I did not sell but supplied the fruit and Veg to the traders..5 in the morning till midday.....
Rowan I will have a look to see if I have a pic as I often use to work in the Fish market after I finished to do a bit of fiddling (taking a fish out of a box and packing it with ice ) much like pumping the bacon up with water today
 
Never worked in the market, but I worked in Pershore Street, and used to see the barrow 'boys' in the café there.
 
When I get round to it I will start a thread about the Markets of Brum as I have a lot of material.... thats if someone else don't take it up
 
I'll look forward to that Cromwell. Worked on the fringes for a couple of years in Upper Dean Street.
 
Cromwell a great selection of badges there !!!   I used to live nextdoor to the Vickerstaffs - they were butchers stalls/shops in the markets - I am sure they still trade (sons perhaps now though??)

Loved the photos of the markets too!! I used to love wondering around the markets helping my mum shop for fresh fruit and veggies!!
 
Hi Brummie Nick my fathers yard was 7 sherlock street his name was George O'Donnell I remember an old Lady used to come into the yard for a barrow and take the money out of her stocking her name was Liz Round a real brummie character. my Dad used to signwrite the barrows sometimes with the customer name like Francis Nicholls , RF Willis, Baragwaneth he also used to make his own wheels (Wheelwright) regards Micko
 
Micko, I certainly remember the Baragwaneths, the Pryke's, Francis Nicholls I worked for. I remember the lorries that Baragwaneths had. They used Scammell three wheelers for some of their fleet.
 
My memories of the Bull Ring in the 1990s are all very negative, I'm afraid. The only positive memories I have really are from early childhood, before the roof of the Market Hall and several nearby buildings were destroyed by bombs. But far worse damage was inflicted after WW2 by the City Council, and I was party to it.
By 1941, when so much of the Bull Ring had been destroyed, Herbert Manzoni the all-powerful City Engineer and Surveyor, had decreed that everything should be demolished to make way for an Inner Ring Road and some distributor roads into the city centre. The remaining space could be used for building modern buildings, as in his view there was nothing worth keeping. His concept was hailed by many as heroic and brave.
In practice it wasn't quite like that. For one thing, The Markets and Fairs Committee and the chief officer of the Markets Department were strongly opposed to the removal of the remains of the old Market Hall, minus its roof, and in the end a ridiculous compromised was reached, where the walls of the last two bays at the west end of the Market Hall were demolished, and a new 'contemporary' facade of asbestos would be erected, while the site would become a long roundabout, with traffic running all round it. So the new road was planned like that, but it was obvious that the market hall couldn't work, and a new site was proposed in the bottom right-hand corner, Spiceal St and Edgbaston St. It was at that time that I came into the scene in 1957, eventually taking over from an older architect colleague who so hated the job that he left (as did I a year later). I remember starting off detailed work for the fish market, and very preliminary work for that awful Midland Red bus station which as far as I know is now a derelict cavern.
We have to bear in mind that at that time, this country was broke, but other countries in a much worse state managed to do better.
Looking back, I think Manzoni has a lot to answer for in using so much money to destroy so much good material to achieve so little. But I believed in some of the ideas at the time.
Peter
 
Peter, you being "in on the ground floor" as it were for the redevelopment of Birmingham in the late l950's would have given you a very different outlook
on various areas of the City than some of Brummie citizens of that era and I can understand somewhat how you would not agree with the direction the architecture of the city was going at that point and rightly so when you
look at how things have turned out. i.e. pull most of it down and start again!

We lost so many key buildings in the city in WW2 through bombing and fire damage and the redevelopment of the city led by Sir Herbert Manzoni, who was endorsed by the Council in a big way, and was, therefore, as City Engineer and Surveyor, free to carry out his somewhat disasterous plans for the city. He certainly has a lot to answer for because, as you say, he swept away a workable situation and replaced it by a mostly unpopular and unworkable plan for the city centre according to many people.

I remember when I worked at Francis Nicholls in Upper Dean Street when the demolition started all around that area and the streets were all closed off as the buildings went down one by one. I can still remember how it looked with buildings, many half demolished in street after street ...dreadful and unreal. It seemed to me to be a very over ambitous scheme which when finished had so many flaws.

In l959 I went to work at Robert M. Douglas in George Road, Erdington and spent the first year working for Mr. Douglas helping him with his farms and animal care correspondence for his estate Dunstall Hall in Barton-under-Needwood. After that work was removed to his home estate offices, I became a "floating" junior secretary which meant I worked for many departments of that company, Estimating, Law, Accounting, Design, Soil Mechanics, etc. It was a real eye opener for me. My Mother worked in the RMD Asphalt & Paving section of the company also at George Road at the same time.

At that time, the Birmingham Post & Mail Building was being developed and I remember writing many letters to John Madin, Architect who designed that building, on behalf of RMD. John Madin didn't get half as much recognition in Birmingham as Sir Herbert Manzoni even though he designed several key buildings in Birmingham, the Post & Mail Building for one, the Chamber of Commerce building, for which he won an award, some residential properties on the Calthorpe Estate, one of which is for sale for 875 thousand pounds and a few churches. Perhaps his recognition was less because another of his buildings was the Central Library which has never been very popular especially after knowing the building it replaced. I am not sure if Douglas's built the Post & Mail Building or not but I remember key personnel from Douglas's meeting with John Madin at that time and recall letters about the placing of the printing presses deep in the basement as the building went up around them. I seem to remember Robert Douglas attending the topping off ceremony at the Post & Mail Building. That building is gone now, of course. John Madin was still alive in 2005 at 81 years of age. It must be very sad for him to have his premier buildings slated for demolition in his lifetime. The John Madin Design Group and Partnership is still in business.

I don't recall Herbert Manzoni coming to George Road, but his son Michael Manzoni, a civil engineer himself worked at Douglas' for many years and oversaw some key building projects in Birmingham. He was a little
full of himself when he was around at George Road. He spent a lot of time at various site offices but he was generally liked by the office people who worked for him both on site and at George Road. I liked him I remember. Sadly, he died a couple of years ago from an asbestos related illness which he is thought to have contracted through his work over the years. He was 76 years old when he died.
 
Market photo
Unfortunately this photo has been lost.


Postied; many thanks again for posting the photo.

Hubby was out tonight so I left the picture on the screen......he recognised the folk straight away.

Going from left to right; Tony Craig; (2nd from the left cant recall)

next; is David Herbert (his uncle whom he worked for 1960/63)
next; Ted Arkley. All the men are in white coats and stallholders,fish and poultry.

He recalls many names from those years.
 
Its amazing how one picture can evoke so many memories, both good and bad, Its very true, " One mans trash is another mans treasure"
More than happy to have been of service.
 
60's bull ring

Hi

There was a previous thread on the New Bull Ring.
Have enclosed a wonderfull picture from another
Collection.
It shows the original post War befor the New 60's
Make over. That huge New Market and all those
massive escalators. Do you remember the escalator
that took you up to New Steet/High Street. For some
reson it was takenaway and the place never felt right.

Mike
 
My dad was a mobile greengrocer but used to go to the Birmingham markets (not exactly sure where) to buy his stocks - he died in 1968 but I can remember telling us he had to go to court re swearing at one of the market police - them wanting him to move his van - he said there was no where for him to go as they were all queued - would love to find out if he was fined etc.... may I add he had 4 girls and never swore in front of us - so I would not imagine it was anything like the swear words heard today
 
Something i remember in the Bull Ring been with my nan in the 60's. An elephant(i think) rubbish bin it sucked your rubbish through its trunk. As a small child i thought it was great.
 
I'm really grateful for the help I've had on here for my undergraduate research into the Bullring during the 60's - 80's. Got another request - does anyone remember the advert for the Bullring Shopping Centre?

It started off 'in da bullring shopping centre, there are smiles on every face' or something along those lines. I can remember the tune, but I'd love to find a sound clip of the actual advert. Though I think I may be hoping for too much!

Cheers
Donna x
 
I am sure it was Terry Savalas (splg?) the "Who loves ya baby" lolly sucking US detective that spoke over the advert.
 
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