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Birmingham Town Hall

A few snippets to add from Cornish's 1851 "Stranger's Guide Through Birmingham".

The Hall was "esteemed the most spacious room in the kingdom"

It was built with "imperishable marble from the island of Anglesey"

Dimensions given in the book are

Height of basement: 23 feet
Height of column: 36 feet
Diameter of columns: 3 ft 6in

The great room: length 145 feet, breadth 65 feet and height 65 feet. This gave total 'cubical' feet as 600,000.

Finally Cornish's claims the organ cost £3000 - £4000. The organ case was 40 foot wide, 45 feet high and 17 feet deep.

Very impressive! Imagine visiting the place in the 1850's. Viv.
 
The built in situ organ was to be forty feet wide and forty five feet high. The largest diapason metal pipe which is front centre of the organ would be five feet tree inches in circumference and thirty five feet high. This information is just a little of that given on an appeal that was launched in 1833 to raise £2,000 toward the cost of building the organ.

If you click on the photo and enlarge it to its fullest extent you should be able to read the appeal set out underneath the artists impression of the organ.

The second photo is a drawing of the organ after it had been installed and set back in to its specially built new alcove. In my opinion it looks as if there has been a bit of artistic licence as it looks far bigger than I remember it.

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Phil said:
Wendy

I think there has always been a balcony of sorts, as can be seen on this drawing of the premier of Elijah presented by Felix Mendelssohn in 1846.

Phil
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Thanks Phil that has cleared that up!
 
Agree, Phil, there may have been some artistic licence here. I can't remember those proportions either. The figures in the 2nd picture look miniature alongside it. It's interesting that the appeal mentions the TH acoustics: "Without a column or impediment to obstruct the proper vibration of the sound". Not until reading that had I fully appreciated the Hall has no real inner columns or pillars etc. as in buildings of this scale. Viv.
 
Phil said:
A painting or maybe it’s a drawing of the specially erected dais built inside the Town Hall to receive HM Queen Victoria when she visited Birmingham on June 15th 1858 to open Aston Hall & Park.

Also another same of the interior of a packed hall in 1845 before the organ was moved back in to its specially built alcove which was recommended by Felix Mendelssohn after appearing at the Hall twice once in 1837 and again in 1847 to present an oratorio called Elijah written especially for Birmingham. He later in that same year died aged 38.

Phil
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Cornish's Guide to Birmingham 1858 gives an atmospheric description of Queen Victoria's visit to the Town Hall and illustrates the use of the setting in Phil's picture of the throne etc:

"The magnificent building was gorgeously decorated for the occasion. The Royal party entered the Hall admidst the thundering of cannon, the peeling of the national anthem, and the roar of thousands of voices. Her Majesty having taken her place before the throne, the Mayor (Mr. Ratcliff) presented an address on behalf of the Corporation, to which Her Majesty made a gracious reply. An address was also presented to the Prince Consort, and his reply having been received, Her Majesty commanded the Mayor to kneel and touching him with a sword on both shoulders, desired him to rise up "Sir John".

Viv
 
How's this for a seemingly pointless exercise? Back in the 1970s the city's planners discussed whether the Town Hall should be jacked up from it's foundations and turned so that it was directly aligned with Corporation Street!! Hardly the wisest use of council funds ...... :thumbsdown:
 
Frankly, I don't like the town hall and never have done. I think that I have previously stated that 'you have gota luv it' and I suppose that is about right for me...except I don't. It's not exactly an architectural masterpiece for me. How can it be when it is a seeming copy of the Parthenon. All of that went out when the romans developed concrete and wonderful arches and fine building techniques. And yet we have it. From some angles it looks to me like an air raid shelter. What a crime to demolish the old central library and college on Edmund street...and leave this building in place just because it was "the town hall". It stands out a bit better in it's present setting because it has better aspects from the western side...I suppose that is a consolation but we paid dearly for that.
 
totally agree with you about the old central library and the college rupert...its a crying shame we no longer have those fine buildings to admire...

lyn
 
artitecture like Art is a matter of personal choice and I can accept some people may not like the Town Hall, I agree that it is a copy of the parthenon but the Parthenon is such a wonderful classical building and well worth copying, I admire the Louve in Paris, would not mind Brum copying that also, better than, in my humble opinion, all this glass and concrete appearing every where - feel better now I have got that of my chest:D:D Eric
 
I love the Town Hall as well it looks wonderful at night lit up. I went to a concert there last year it was really nice and friendly so much better than the massive NEC. I am just so happy it was saved and restored. A great venue for artists of all sorts.
 
As I understand it, the Parthenon housed a god/godess and the treasury...kept it all safe from marauders in bad times. I don't think that Brum ever had any of this kind of stuff, at least in my time, to put in their version. Only lean pickings.
 
Rupert said:
As I understand it, the Parthenon housed a god/godess and the treasury...kept it all safe from marauders in bad times. I don't think that Brum ever had any of this kind of stuff, at least in my time, to put in their version. Only lean pickings.
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I think we can regard the long line of music festivals held in the Town Hall as 'treasure' as well as the special events it's witnessed such as the 1858 visit of Queen Victoria when she knighted John Ratcliff. :)

Showells Dictionary gives the first music festival held at the Town Hall as 7 - 10 October 1834. 21/- for a reserved seat and 10s 6d for unreserved seats at the morning performances, evenings a bit cheaper 15/- reserved and 8/- unreserved. All to a good cause; to raise funds for the General Hospital. I'm sure a highly valued activity. Viv
 
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OK Viv, treasure in a different way but there aren't a lot of seats in there. How about knocking the walls down and leaving the columns; thusly making for a large covered and outdoor arena. Outdoor seats in Victoria Square for a larger audience. Something like the 'three tenor' events. Perhaps raising and turning the hall to line up with...Colmore row...would make sense then. Oh and remove the slab frontage if it is still there. The war is over.
 
Interesting idea but not so sure Birmingham could justify this given they have the Symphony Hall, now run in partnership as a joint and complementary operation with the Town Hall. I think one of the plus factors for the TH is as Wendy suggests in her earlier post, it's a more intimate venue.

It's original purpose in 1834 was for the performance of music, political speechmaking, public gatherings and the urban community. To some extent it's outlived some of it's original purpose with, for example, less of a 'political speechmaking' function. But from the info on the TH & SH website it appears to be adapting and hoping to attract more community and corporate functions which, I'm sure, can equally be at home there, rather than in some modern, warehouse-like venue. Viv.
 
Viv

Here is a copy of a picture of the opening of the first Triennial music Festival to be held at the Town Hall in 1834. it is a drawing of the Company arriving outside the hall. Next a painting of the Town Hall illuminated by moonlight and gaslight for Wendy, does it look as good as the modern illuminations?

Phil

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Well Rupert,

It is each to his own, personally the only opinion I have of the building is that I would rather look at it than some of the modern stuff that Birmingham seems to delight in erecting these days.

Phil
 
Phil said:
Viv

Here is a copy of the official picture of the opening of the first Triennial music Festival to be held at the Town Hall in 1834. Next is a drawing of the Company arriving outside the hall. Finally a painting of the Town Hall illuminated by moonlight and gaslight for Wendy, does it look as good as the modern illuminations?

Phil
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Excellent painting and drawings Phil. The first drawing gives the impression it was jam packed with people. It was originally built to accommodate 3,000 people. Am I right in thinking the central lower level was for standing only? And the balconies all look like they could contain far more people in the 1830s than today. Here's the seating plan from the THSH site. My calculations make it capable of seating up to 1,051 today, just over a third of the original audience. Now very civilised seating.

https://www.thsh.co.uk/mmlib/includes/sendfile.php?id=272

One of the many changes made to the place was to create a crush hall in 1891. They certainly looked like they needed it! Viv.
 
Just saw the Midlands news with outside broadcast in City centre.
The Town Hall and the Council House looked brilliant,looked BIRMINGHAM.
 
Phil said:
Viv

Here is a copy of the official picture of the opening of the first Triennial music Festival to be held at the Town Hall in 1834. Next is a drawing of the Company arriving outside the hall. Finally a painting of the Town Hall illuminated by moonlight and gaslight for Wendy, does it look as good as the modern illuminations?

Phil
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Phil it looks lovely by gas light and fits the time it now looks equally lovely by flood light!
Viv I commented about the seating which Phil suggested was a bit of artistic license. The coffee bar is lovely as is the bar and when attending performances the artists often come down and join you at the bar.
I am sorry Rupert feels so strongly about the Town Hall but then again so do I but I love it!.
 
Just trying to get you conversing about something other than the weather. It worked. You can describe this tombstone to antiquity in other ways but beauty is not one of them I would think. Maybe Imposing or Gothic or Built or something. Lighting can make any pigs pudding look great, it's only columns, but does not change the reality. Perhaps the lower facing could be made a bit more presentable. Heck the inside resembles the old fish market except for the roof. We rave on about the old fish market but that too was gruesome but we became used to it and accostomed to it being there and finally missed it when it was gone. Methinks it would still be gone even if the roof had not burned off. The City Arcade was a different matter though and this combined with Union Passage and other parts could have been a honycomb of element free shops. The concept was great and it did not have to be ditched just because it was bombed. The good could have been kept and expanded upon. I guess people just wanted something better but ended up with just new.
 
To me it's encouraging that we can discuss a building with such emotion. A strength of this forum is recording the range of views, in a civilised manner where no-one gets hurt. :cry: :) Viv.
 
I think most people love the TH, I started a post a couple of years ago about my singing in the Youth Choir. It was there also that my Grandfather was presented with his silver medal in 1908, for helping in the attempted rescue of fellow miners at Hamstead Colliery.
Well done Rupert !!
 
A few snippets about the Town Hall from the Arcana of Science & Art Journal 1835 (an annual register of inventions etc) to help us visualise a little its construction:

"The structure is of bricks, which were made on the spot, of the earth excavated for the foundation. The walls are faced with Angelsea marble, of which material the columns and their accessories are composed. The stones were cut and worked by machinery with steam power, and the columns were fluted by the same means, an invention it is understood, of one of the contractors ..... "

"Another ingenious contrivance, consisting of a species of craning lever beam on rollers, was applied for the purpose of hoisting the framed tie-beams and principals of the roof from the ground up to the walls"




The article also mentions that the Hall could accommodate between 3,000 and 4,000 people sitting and 10,000 standing! Viv.
 
Here is a Epitaph in St. Paul church yard to 2 builders killed building the Town Hall. It is a segment of one of the Town Hall pillars....
 
I found that thanks to one of the books on Birmingham I've got (Birmingham Up Town).


Memorial for Birmingham Town Hall accident victims by ell brown, on Flickr
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ell-r-brown/5317734386/
It is in memory of John Heap and William Badger. They were killed on January 26 1833. John Heap was 38 and William Badger was 26.
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It is Grade II listed as Lower Part Of A Fluted Column.

Intended for the town hall during the building of which, in 1833, John Heap and William Badger were killed and to whom it was erected as a monument.
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Like the photos John. Good to see the area around the Town Hall put to good use.

A bit of info about the accident. During construction, on January 26, 1833, Heap and Badger, two workers were lifting roof beams onto the roof and were killed when a 70 foot crane constructed to install the roof trusses broke. The pulley block failed and the lifting equipment smashed into the scaffolding that the men stood on. John Heap died instantly and Win. Badger died a few days later from his injuries. The pillar base memorial in St. Philip's churchyard was made by one of the workmen. Viv
 
They are always using Victoria Square for various events. Recently it was used for Armed Forces Day. Think a Food Festival was on before that. At the moment there are Table Tennis Ping Pong tables in various squares across the city centre. And of course the Frankfurt Christmas Market each year.
 
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