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Birmingham Steam Buses 1824-1910.

The London Gazette (22 March and 6 September 1842) has notices concerning a "fiat of bankruptcy" (of 12 April 1841) against Bartholomew Redfern.
 
Re: William Robinson Kettle (WRK).

The London Gazette has notices mentioning WRK in 1847-1851, in which he is appointed as trustee or arbitrator in connection with bankruptcies.

WRK (with Benjamin Wakefield and William Crosher) was granted patent number 9210 (24 December 1841) relating to "the manufacture of bolts to be used for building and other purposes". This may not be our WRK; his place of residence is not given.

Note added 3 August 2010: R B Prosser's Birmingham Inventors and Inventions (1881 / 1970) supplies further information on this patent, confirming that the co-patentee is indeed our WRK:
William Robinson Kettle, Waterloo Street, Accountant, Benjamin Wakefield, Ryland Street North, Civil Engineer, and William Crosher, Cumberland Street, Screw Maker, "Expanding bolts for connecting wooden framework together".​
 
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Good morning (or is it evening to you?) Thylacine. Despite much searching, I can't find the elusive Mr Kettle on a census. He's gone right off the boil (Sorry :D)
 
Well it's early evening here, Lloyd. And being winter it's almost dark already.

I wonder how William Robinson Kettle managed to elude the census collectors all his life? :rolleyes:
 
Re: Associates of Dr Church 1832-1837.

Thylacine said:
Here's a list of those involved in the Dr William Church steam carriage venture (through the London and Birmingham Steam Carriage Co (LBSC)) in the period 1832-1837. Some are better known than others, but information from directories, censi, etc will be very welcome (in other words: HELP PLEASE! but no hurry :)):

Edwin Vernon Blyth (factor, merchant, LBSC director, bankrupt 17 November 1835 and/or 1855).
Samuel Aspinwall Goddard (gunmaker, LBSC director, owner of the Church "Surprise" railway locomotive 1840; author and pamphleteer; exhibitor of guns at Great Exhibition 1851; co-patentee with Church of a cannon 1853 - see next post; petitioner of Parliament concerning the cannon 1868).
Mr Harrison (LBSC engineer; sorry that's all of his name that I know).
W R Kettle (accountant, LBSC secretary, auditor of Birmingham Corporation accounts 1855).
Joseph Phipson (button and military ornament maker, dealer, chapman, LBSC director, bankrupt 17 December 1836).
Bartholomew Redfern (gunmaker 1 Caroline Street, LBSC director, Edgbaston councillor 1838).
John Rotton (banker, LBSC director).
Joshua Scholefield (1774/5–4 July 1844; banker, LBSC director, MP).
Joseph Stock (LBSC director).
Henry Van Wart (25 September 1784 - 15 February 1873; American merchant 23 Summer Row, banker, LBSC director, Edgbaston alderman 1838).
Benjamin Wakefield (born 1800 Mow Cop; LBSC engineer).
Click to expand...

Reads like a list of the great & good of Birmingham around this time - an undoubtedly powerful Board with our first MP, auditors, bankers, councillors and aldermen + original steampunk Johnny Rotten :0312:
 
John Rotton, Banker (shame its an o rather than an e, but never mind)

1815-18 Rotton John, brass founder, Belmont Row
1823 No entry
1829-30 Rottons, Smith; and Scholefield, bankers,52, Bull-st.

1833 Rottons and Scholefield, bankers, 52,Bull-St.—Res. of J. Rotton,Sparkbrook
1839-41 Rotton and Scholefield, stamped and cast brass founders, Belmont road
1845 Rotton, John, 86 Belmont Row, there is a John Cross , brassfounder at 27,
Belmont row, but no Rotton brassfounder
1849 Rotton, John, 86 Belmont Row. No John Rotton in business, though there are several Rottons, including a Harry (Rotton banker) and a Thomas , whom is a brass founder screw manufacturer. I do particularly like (presumably not the same one leading a double life ):
Rotton Rev. John Edward W., senior curate of St. Martin's, 93, Bathrow buildings.
Rev. Johnny Rotton, curate of St Martins does have a ring to it. Could be the title of a TV series

1852 Rotton, John, 86 Belmont Row
1855 No John Rotton listed. The only Rotton whose private address is listed is Henry (the Rotton banker)


Joshua Scholefield. You can see from above there probably is a connection with Rotton

1815-18 Scholefield, Redfern and Co. merchants, Square
1815-18 Scholefield Joshua, Temple Row
1823 Scholefield Joshua, Edgbaston
1823-29 Scholefield and Taylor, merchants, Minories
1833-41 Scholefield Joshua and Son, merchants,Minories.—Residence of J.
Scholefield,the Grove, Edgbaston, and of C. C.Scholefield, 1, Old Square
1845 The firm is still at the Minories & C.C. Scholefield is at same address, but Joshua is not listed at a private address., but from you list he dies in 1844, so that is not surprising
Mike
 
Joseph Stock

1816 & 1818 No Stocks listed
1823 Stock Joseph, lead and glass merchant, 15, Cannon-street, Resid.- Crescent
1829 Stock and Sharp, lead and glass merchants,16 Cannon-st.-Resid. of Mr.
Stock, Selly-hill; and of Mr. Sharp,Erdington Slade
1833 Stock and Sharp, lead and glass merchants,15, Cannon st Residence of Mr.
Stock, Bourn-brook, and of Mr.Sharp, Erdington Slade
1839-41 Stock & Sharp,. glass and lead merchants. Cannon St
1845 Stock Joseph & Sharp William, plumbers, brass founders & manufacturers of
gas fittings, etc. 35 Upper Temple st. & glass & lead merchants, 15 Cannon st
1845 Stock, J. esq, Stirchley st, Kings Norton

Mike
 
Thanks indeed, Mike, for your further elucidation of these early 19th century Birmingham "metal men" and bankers. "Where there's muck there's brass", as the Yorkshire saying goes. ;)
 
Benjamin Wakefield

1845 Wakefield Benjamin, described as beer retailer & machinist engineer & general tool.maker, 127 Livery St.in name list, but not as beer retailer in street list at 127 Livery St. There are no Wakefields in Birminghm listed as beer retailers, though there is a Mrs Penelope Wakefield at the Swan Hotel, High St, bull Ring
1849 Wakefield Benjamin, engineer, machinist & tool maker, 60 Constitution hill,
& 34 Warstone lane
1849 Wakefield Benjamin, machinist & tool maker,127 Livery St
1855-62 Wakefield Benjamin, General machinist & tool maker, & patent iron coach
door plate manufacturer, 35 Harford st
1867 Wakefield,Benjamin , machinist, 65½ Constitution Hill
1867 Wakefield,Benjamin , machinist, 73 Brearley St West
1872 No Benjamin listed
Mike
 
1861 census has Benjamin Wakefield age 61. machinist, born Wolverhampton, Staffordshire at 34 Harford Street, with
wife Hannah, 61, b. Stourbridge
sons John, 32; Joseph H, 19; William H, 18;
daughter Hannah, 27.
All the children born Birmingham: all the sons machinists.

At no. 35 is Nathaniel Wall, Gold chain maker; nos 36/7 seems to be the St Georges Inn (Mary Atkins, licenced victualler) and no 38 may be the house attached as those theere are listed as Mary's relatives.
 
LBSC Junior Engineer Benjamin Wakefield.

Thanks for that research, Mike and Lloyd!

Here's the genealogical information posted earlier on BSB which first brought the name to our attention (just to get everything on the same page of the hymn book):
"My 2 x gt grandad Benjamin Wakefield ws born at Brieryhurst Farm, Mow Cop in 1800. The family had been in this part of Staffs as far back as 1680s, poss earlier. Earlier Wakefields included Benjamin (my 4 x gt gdad) who married Elizabeth HAMMERSLEY in 1780, Joseph and Hannah Wakefield (5 x gt gprts) and Nathan Wakefield and Mary GOODFELLOW (6 x gt grprnts) Benjamin my 2 x gt gdad married Hannah HILL in Aston Birmingham in 1823. He was an engineer and worked on Dr Church's steam coach (1833) which ran between London and B'ham at the amazing speed of 14mph!! I have traced nearly all of the family but still trying to find descendants of Benj's son John who started a Lamp Manufacturing business in 1880 which was still going in the 1960s. Would love to hear from anyone researching this family and happy to share what I have found to date. Penny"​
His birth year fits in with the 1861 census, but Mow Cop is a fair way from Wolverhampton (perhaps where the birth was registered: though were births registered in 1800?). Everything else appears to fit in with what Mike and Lloyd have discovered, but where was he prior to 1845?
 
Last one of the list

Henry Van Wart

1815 Van Wart Henry, Esq. merchant, Lady Wood-lane, warehouse, Newhall-street
1818 Van Wart Henry, merchant, Britannia Buildings
1823 Van Wart Henry, Calthorpe St
1823-73 Van Wart, Son & Co, merchants, 23 Summer Row
1849-73 Van Wart Henry, J.P. The Shrubbery, 95 Hagley road
In the 1873 directory “(mort)” is put against Henry’s name at his home address.
The Van Wart Co, seems to have included William ( a son?). George Van Wart lived a the Shrubbery also . He was a wine & spirit merchant
In later years there was also a Harry (presumably another son.)
 
Re: LBSC Junior Engineer Benjamin Wakefield.

Thylacine said:
...
His birth year fits in with the 1861 census, but Mow Cop is a fair way from Wolverhampton (perhaps where the birth was registered: though were births registered in 1800?). Everything else appears to fit in with what Mike and Lloyd have discovered, but where was he prior to 1845?
Click to expand...

Births weren't registered but Baptism's, if performed, were and these sometimes can capture the birth date also. It is quite common for the mother to travel back to her family for the birth of the first (and maybe subsequent) born - better to be around your family and with their experience (and possibly midwife - doctors being out of the question but for the very rich)
 
I wondered if an area of Wolverhampton had been called Mow Cop (Cop from the Dutch/South African 'Kop' meaning hill - Low hill, or Snow hill perhaps) gut no, there is even today a Brieryhurst Farm, Mow Lane, Mow Cop.
The answer must be that Benjamin had moved to Birmingham in search of work - there aren't many opportunities out there in the wilds of northern Staffordshire.
But why put 'Wolverhampton' as place of birth in the census - if that was the same man.

The Benjamin Wakefield I found earlier (post #384) is listed in the 1851 census where he puts "Stafford, Wollaston" as place of birth. He is a machinist "Employing 3 men".
Wollaston is North West of Stourbridge, on the Bridgnorrth Road (route of the Kinver Light Railway).


Hmm, now I find that Mow Cop, Staffordshire is in 'Woostanton' registration district. A Hannah Wakefield's birth was registered there in 1837...
 
Nice picture of Brieryhurst Farm, Lloyd! With the ubiquitous "wheely bin". Which reminds me of my only joke (i e the only one I know; I didn't make it up):
Council officer knocks on door. Occupant opens door.
Occupant: Yes?
Officer: Where's your bin?
Occupant: I've been on holiday.
Officer: No, where's your wheely bin?
Occupant: Well I've really been in jail, but I'm telling people I've been on holiday.​
[Sorry! ;)]
 
Thanks for the humorous interlude, gentlemen! Did I see our kid Kong in the first video clip? (Sorry, lost the thread there!).

I'm a Mercian patriot myself: things have really gone downhill since the days of King Offa (r 757 - 796).

[Where's that Midland Red Acme "Thunderer"? ;)]
 
Lloyd you are the undisputed you-tube king - thanks. Didn't realise Flanders & Swann were so rad - somehow I don't think it would get televised these days...
 
Found a summary of Heaton Brothers Steam Vehicle exploits in Upton (so no references but may aid the search):

Summer of 1833 did the return to Wolverhampton twice in one day (thinks: 6 times sounds a tad optimistic) and followed up with round trip to Coventry (thinks: must have been busy with Steam machines this year). However, contractual small print caught up with them as the shares had been issued on the basis of averaging 8mph in the trials which it marginally failed to do so the venture was wound up and the experiment abandoned
 
In the 2005 annual review of the Institute of Mechanical Engineers (IMechE) is the following paragraph on the 'Information Services' page:
"Significant additions to the IMechE historical collections were made in 2005. These included busts of George and Robert Stephenson by the Victorian sculptor EW Wyon, and Heaton Brothers steam-carriage drawings and Henry W Dickinson notebooks donated by the Newcomen Society."
 
Thylacine said:
Thanks, Molesworth! Upton?
Click to expand...

Chris Upton's "A History of Birmingham" (1993, 1997). He worked in the Central Library, lectured in Aston & Birmingham Uni's and wrote for the Birmingham Post. Catch phrase "It's important to know where you came from and when the last bus back leaves"

He also briefly mentions Church (successful runs to Coventry and over the Lickeys in 1833 but fell victim to low quality roads and its own low speeds), and Lunar society discussions (William Small writing to James Watt in 1768 hoping to soon travel "in a fiery chariot of your invention" and William Murdoch's demo model that frightened the Vicar).

Lloyd - looks a useful and intriguing find. I attach a sketch from The Engineer's And Mechanic's Encyclopaedia

In other Heaton news - I attach an engraving of the Rolling Mill in Heaton's Mint in 1862 as it seems atmospheric
 
Aidan said:
... I attach a sketch from The Engineer's And Mechanic's Encyclopaedia ...
Click to expand...

Good (English) morning, gentlemen!

Molesworth, I had previously posted (MRED post #298) that alleged picture of the "Heaton". But I decided on the basis of the e-text of the 1836 edition of Luke Hebert's Engineer's and Mechanic's Encyclopaedia (pp 530 et seq), that the picture is actually of a Rawe and Boase patent steam carriage of 19 July 1830 (the text of the 1849 edition of Hebert that you linked to being corrupted). I've just been through the matter again carefully, and still believe that that picture is NOT of the "Heaton". But I would appreciate a second opinion. You have to start reading at the bottom of page 530 and continue to page 535.

Penfold's reference to the 2005 IMechE acquisition of "Heaton Brothers steam-carriage drawings" sounds like a more promising source of "Heaton" pictures. I wonder if we would be able to gain access to them?
 
Chin up, Molesworth - I have found the whole "Steam Carriages" chapter of "The Engineer's and Mechanic's Encyclopaedia" a fascinating and answer-providing read. Elevate yourself to "Swot of the class" position - albeit temporarily.
 
Thanks for helping to clear that up, Molesworth! That e-book of Hebert's 1849 edition is a great find (particularly as archive.org has the spelling "encyclopeadia" - their indexing system needs a lot of work!). Everything from the 1802 "Trevithick" to the 1843 "Hills" is described, and many are illustrated (but NOT the "Church" or the "Heaton" - d'oh! :().

Here's the IMechE website. Their "Heaton" drawings should be in their library or archive. Someone (not mentioning any names, Molesworth! ;)) might be willing to contact them (laying on the flannel) to inquire if they might be willing to supply to the honourable BHF BSB classroom a scan of said drawings. If they want money, we might have a "whip round" :rolleyes:.
 
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