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Birmingham Steam Buses 1824-1910.

Looking for the names above;
1823 Barwell John, metal dealer, 69, Hospital-street, and 184, Liverystreet
1833-45 Barwell John, metal dealer, 7 Church St, Bread St
1849 Barwell John, wholesale metal dealer & agent to Sims,Willyams, Nevill & Co. copper smelters, 7 Church street (home) & 48 Bread street
1855-58 Barwell John & Son, wholesale metal dealers & brass makers, & agents to the Vieille Montagne Zinc Co., 28, Pickford street, Lower Fazeley street. Home 22 terrace, Summer hill
1862-97 Barwell & Sons ,Copper and spelter merchants & brass manufacturers (& later malleable ironfouners), 28 Pickford St. The firm seems, at first at least, to consist of Charles (Verulam Place, small heath), ohn (Camden house, summer hill ) & William (Brighton place. Moseley road).
1899-1913 Barwell Ltd copper, spelter & metal merchants & ingot brass makers , 25-32 Pickford St
There is another Barwells Lts, which seems to have descended from the James Barwell empire) this in 1921 is listed together with the metal merchants,
1921 Barwells Limited, copper, spelter & metal merchants & ingot brass makers, 25 to 32 Pickford street (T A " Metals,Birmingham ; " TN's 2,145 & 2,146 Central) & bolt &nut manufacturers, Hockley works, Brookfield road. T A" Barwell, Birmingham ; " T N 104 Centra
1932 The firm seems to have disappeared,though there is a charles Barwell, brass tube maker and and a James Barwell plumbers brass founders at different addresses
(There is also a John Barwell, button manufacturer, appears 1833 . but in one directory he and the metal dealer are listed as different homes, so must be different)
A William Barwell might be his father or brother and also a James, brassfounder and brass cock maker.. Also another William appears later and it seems rather complicated
Will look for other later
Mike
 
Aidan said:
... search of Berrows & Bimingham Daily Post for Heaton but nothing turned up ...
Click to expand...

Thanks, Molesworth! We can't always "strike it lucky". The main claim to fame of these gentlemen might be their brief involvement with the "romance of steam". :grinsmile:
 
John Blakemore

1815- 45 Blakemore John, tailor, 98, Navigation-street (no of house not given 1815 & 1818)
1823 Blakemore Thomas and John, victuallers, 88, Holloway-head
Blakemore Thomas and John, brace bit and tool chest makers, 88, Holloway-head
( A Thomas Blakemore was a tailor in 1815 & 1818, & (another ?) was a toolmaker in 1815 and there was a victualler & gunmaker Thomas in 1818)
1829 Blackmore. John (but I think this is a misprint and no of house) Brass bit &
coffin maker, 8 Holloway Head
1833 Blakemore, John, shopkeeper 37 Tennant St
No listing of a John Blakemore in 1849.
Mike
 
1861 census:
23 Summer Hill Terrace;
James Barwell, age 43, Brass Founder employing 27 men, 20 boys
Sarah A Barwell, age 35
Sarah M Barwell, age 12, daughter
Edward Barwell, age 9, son
Arthur Barwell, age 8, son
Mary H Barwell, age 6, daughter
Ada M Barwell, age 4, daughter
Maria E Barwell, age 3, daughter
Frank H Barwell, age 2, son
Herbert Barwell, age 2mths, son
Emma Webber, Emma Garbett, Emily Keene, Mary Sparks, servants.

The next entry is:
20 Summer Hill Terrace:
John Barwell, age 67, dealer in metals
Mary A Barwell, age 60, wife
Mary A Barwell, age 40, daughter
Sarah A Taylor, Charlotte Cooper, servants.
 
Jesse Greaves

1815-1818 Greaves Jesse, Islington
1823 Greaves Jesse 26 Bath Row
1841 Greaves Mr. Jesse, 109 Broad st, Isliugton
The 1841 census list Jesse (65), with wife Susannah (55) with Charlotte Smith (20) & Elizabeth Watton(?) (18), these presumably being servants.
There were a number of firms named greaves, that Jesse could have been responsible for creating, Printer, spectacle makers , gun barrel borers, but no indication which (if any) had an association with him
Mike
 
Thanks, Mike and Lloyd, for the continuing directory and census magic. The mist is lifting from the HSC "pro tem" board. ;)
 
Peter Gould Website Infected!

I was going to search Peter Gould's wwwdotpetergoulddotcodotuk/local_transport_history/ website for SGSBs, but Google informs me that it has been infected with "malware" (due to the wwwdottransportbannersdotcom component). DON'T GO TO THESE LINKS.

Is there any way of informing Peter so that he can disinfect his site? It would be sad indeed if we were to lose his excellent fleet histories and lists. :(
 
Henry Gimblett (no Grimblett found)
1815 Gimblet John and Henry, Property Tax Office, Cherry-.street,(spelling as given)
1818 Gimblett Henry, appraiser, auctioneer, &c. Cherry-street
1823-35 Gimblett Henry, appraiser, auctioneer, land surveyor, general agent, and dealer in copper and brass, 35, Cherry-street
1839-41 Gimblett Henry, auctioneer, appraiser, and general agent , 34, Cherry st.
1845-49 Gimblett Henry, auctioneer, appraiser & agent to the Pelican Life.34, Cherry st
From 1845 there is a John Henry Gimblett, (who is son ), solicitor. 34 Cannon St
1855 lists only his home address , 3 Westborne Rd, so presumably he has retired.
1859 Lists home at Westbourne road, but also 34 cannon St (which is his son’s work address. Henry gives no occupation for this address however
He is not listed in 1862 and his son John is listed as Elizabeth’s (Henry’s wife) executor (thought this was a bit unusual in a directory entry unless Elizabeth was very, very rich). Against no 3 westbourne road is “Henry Gimblett, executors of “
So it looks like henry & elizabeth died very closely together.
1841 Census Henry (50) auctioneer, Elizabeth (45), John Henry (18, articled cleerk and a servant
1851 On census only Henry, Elizabeth and servant
Mike
 
Henry Merry

1815 Merry Joseph & Son, cut brad and military ornament makers, Cherry-street

1818-23 Merry J. and H. picture frame and military ornament manuf,42 Cherry-street
1829-33 Merry H. and T. brass founders, and picture frame and military ornament
manufrs. 41, Cherry-st.
1839 Merry Theophilus and Henry, German silver warehouse, 40, Cherry st
1839-41 Merry, Phipson, and Parker, military ornament, gilt and plated button manufacturers, 41, Cherry street
1845 Merry Henry & Theophilus, chemical works, Sherborne wharf, Sherborne st. & metal rolling mills, Lower Fazeley st
1845 Merry, Phipson & Parker, manufacturers of military ornaments, gilt & plated buttons, 42 Cherry st
1849 Merry Mrs. Mary (late H. & T. Merry), cobalt and nickel refiner, and
german silver manufacturer, Sherborne streetwharf; house, 19, Gough street
Mike
 
And thanks for Henry Merry, Mike. It's interesting that Merry took bankrupt former LBSC director Joseph Phipson as a partner 1839-1845. These Birmingham steam and metal men stuck together! ;) Great work!
 
Richard Tangye Manuscript and Signature.

It is very rare to come across the handwriting and signature of one of the historical personages who come into the beam of our searchlight. Here [picture 1] is a manuscript letter of Richard Tangye (complete with signature) to one Sir Robert Edgcumbe. It is dated 30 June 1899, when Tangye was 65 years old. I discovered it at the front of the archive.org e-book version of Tangye's The Two Protectors (London: S W Partridge, 1899). I suspect that his correspondent is Sir (Edward) Robert Pearce Edgcumbe (13 March 1851 - 29 September 1929), a fellow historian and travel writer, who was elected Mayor of Dorchester in 1890 and was a director of the ill-starred Weymouth Old Bank [picture 2].

[I'm thrilled with this find, which somehow puts us "in touch" with the grand old Birmingham "steam and metal man". Next: a Dr Church laundry list! ;)]

[Note added: Molesworth has already posted a picture of Richard Tangye, complete with signature!]
 
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Newsflash: BSB Enters Top Ten.

The BSB class will be proud to learn that we today entered the TOP TEN in the "BHF/Birmingham Transport/Transport/The Buses" forum (by "views").

Cynics might remark: "So what? Most of the other threads are old and inactive. It's no big deal."

But I reckon it's something to be pleased about, especially after beginning just over a week ago. BSB is at "full steam ahead", overtaking those that are still in the race, and cruising past those that have "fallen by the wayside". We're obviously generating a good deal of interest. And we're learning a lot ourselves, while having a lot of fun in the process.

High quality co-operative research. Well done everybody! :cool:
 
Robert Packer
1815-18 Packer Robert Branstone-street
1823 Packer Robert, New Tennant-street, Edgbaston
1829-30 Packer Robert, iron merchant, agent to Fox,Williams, and Co. and to Messrs.
Daubuz, and Co. tin and copper.smelters, 29, Upper Priory.Residence Frederick-street
1833 Packer Robert, iron merchant and agent to Fox, Williams and Co. and Daubuz
& Co. tin and copper smelters, 44,Edmund-st.— Resid. Frederick-st.
1839 & 1841 Nothing listed. Therefore he must have died or moved away from Birmingham

Joseph Pickard

1815-18 Pickard Joseph, tool maker, Thomas-street
1829 Pickard Joseph, die forger, tool maker, and wood turner, 16, Old Thomas-st.
1830 Pickard Joseph, die forger, tool maker, and wood turner, 14, Thomas-st
1833 Pickard Joseph, lathe, stamp, press and die maker, 14, Thomas-st.
1839-41 Pickard Joseph, die forger and tool maker, Thomas street'

Also (sons ?)
1823 Pickard, Thomas, tool maker , Thomas St
1829-30 Pickard Thos. steel and iron tool maker,14, Thomas-st.
1829 Pickard Wm. lathe, stamp, press and die makers, 14, Thomas-st.

And
1815- 18 Pickard T. M, die sinker, Lichfield-street
1823 Pickard T. M, die sinker and engraver, 92, Lichfield-street
1829- 33 Pickard T. M. Sheffield &Lancashire tool and general ironmongery warehouse,75,Bull-st.
1839-41 Pickard Thomas Morris., ironmonger, cutler, &c, 75, Bull street
Then in 1845 there is just ;
Pickard John, appraiser, die forger, & general tool & wiregauges manufacturer, 19 Thomas st
Pickard Thomas Morris, sheffield & lancashire general file,tool, steel, cutlery, & furnishing ironmongery warehouse 75 Bull st
Pickard Mr. J., 81 Great Brook St
There seems a preponderance of metal trade people in the list, which, I suppose isn’t surprising, seeing as it is birmingham
Mike
 
Thanks for Packer and Pickard, Mike!

Yes, the Heaton venture seems to have been dominated by "metal men". The investors in the Church venture, on the other hand, appear to have been "bank men" (except for Joseph Phipson, who was in the metal trade; and there are many Church backers who we haven't yet investigated: I'll post a list of candidates later).

The brothers Heaton were themselves "metal men", starting out in the 1820s as wire button shank makers, and diversifying into a wide range of metal manufacture. The were based at "Shadwell Street Mills". They have been investigated on another thread somewhere, which I will try to locate: we don't want to re-invent the wheel!

I would like to know how the brothers Heaton (John, William, George and Reuben) were related to Birmingham Mint founder Ralph Heaton II (1794 - October 1862). And if its not too much trouble, birth and death dates for the brothers Heaton would be useful. In your own good time, Mike, and thanks again for your valuable assistance. :)
 
Associates of Dr Church 1832-1837.

Here's a list of those involved in the Dr William Church steam carriage venture (through the London and Birmingham Steam Carriage Co (LBSC)) in the period 1832-1837. Some are better known than others, but information from directories, censi, etc will be very welcome (in other words: HELP PLEASE! but no hurry :)):

Edwin Vernon Blyth (factor, merchant, LBSC director, bankrupt 17 November 1835 and/or 1855).
Samuel Aspinwall Goddard (gunmaker, LBSC director, owner of the Church "Surprise" railway locomotive 1840; author and pamphleteer; exhibitor of guns at Great Exhibition 1851; co-patentee with Church of a cannon 1853 - see next post; petitioner of Parliament concerning the cannon 1868).
Mr Harrison (LBSC engineer; sorry that's all of his name that I know).
W R Kettle (accountant, LBSC secretary, auditor of Birmingham Corporation accounts 1855).
Joseph Phipson (button and military ornament maker, dealer, chapman, LBSC director, bankrupt 17 December 1836).
Bartholomew Redfern (gunmaker 1 Caroline Street, LBSC director, Edgbaston councillor 1838).
John Rotton (banker, LBSC director).
Joshua Scholefield (1774/5–4 July 1844; banker, LBSC director, MP).
Joseph Stock (LBSC director).
Henry Van Wart (25 September 1784 - 15 February 1873; American merchant 23 Summer Row, banker, LBSC director, Edgbaston alderman 1838).
Benjamin Wakefield (born 1800 Mow Cop; LBSC engineer).
 
Dr Church Fires His Cannon 1853.

[From The Courier (Hobart, Tasmania) 29 April 1853 "LATEST ENGLISH EXTRACTS":]

The cannon recently shown in Birmingham by Dr Church and Mr S A Goddard has been exhibited at Woolwich Arsenal, to the Select Committee of the Hon Board of Ordnance, and the officers there. The patentees were received and treated in the most courteous manner, and every facility was granted them by Colonel Chambers. The peculiarities of the cannon were examined with much apparent interest, after which it was tried, and gave general satisfaction. A number of rounds were fired with great rapidity, and one of the patentees undertook, with the assistance of one man, to load and fire it twenty-five times in five minutes. He also undertook, with one man, to load and fire a 32-pounder upon the same principle four times in one minute. It is anticipated that a favourable report will be made to the Board of Ordnance.
 
Re: Dr Church Fires His Cannon 1853.

There is listed in the 1841 census a Samuel Goddard, age 40, merchant; at 'Highfield' in or next to Harborne Road, Edgbaston, Birmingham. (Is this the house? Junction of Highfield and Harborne Roads, Edgbaston.)
with him are:
Wife Jasmina, 35;
Daughters Julia (15), Mary (14), Caroline (9), Fanny (7);
Sons Edward (13), William (11), Francis (5 mths);
and three female servants.
 
What connections! Steam, metal, banking, guns, politics, literature: the Birmingham world of the 1830s. Marvellous history!
 
The Works of Samuel Aspinwall Goddard (1796-1886).

LBSC director Samuel Aspinwall Goddard (1796-1886) was a pamphleteer and writer of letters to the press. Here is a list of his known works (mainly from COPAC). Links are provided to known e-text versions.

Miscellaneous Letters on Currency, Free Trade etc. London: Simpkin Marshall & Co, 1847 (46 pp).
Letters to the Edinburgh Chamber of Commerce etc Upon the Monetary System, Embracing a Reply to the Pamphlet of Mr George Combe on the Same Subject. London and Birmingham, 1857 (43 pp).
Reply to Mr Lindsay's Speech at Sunderland, August 1864, on the American Question. Birmingham: E C Osborne, [1864] (16 pp).
The Depression of Business: A Few Words on the Depression of Business. Birmingham: E C Osborne, 1868 (19 pp).
The American Rebellion: Letters on the American Rebellion 1860 to 1865 etc. London: Simpkin Marshall & Co, Birmingham: E C Osborne, Boston: Nichols & Noyes, 1870 (xvi, 583 pp). These letters were mostly originally published in the Birmingham Daily Post. The "American Rebellion" is of course the Civil War.
Extracts From Letters on the American Rebellion. New York: reprinted by William Abbatt, 1912 (22 pp).

[COPAC gives Goddard's birth year as 1796, though he gave age 40 in the 1841 census.]
 
Church-Goddard Gun Forgotten.

The 1853 Church-Goddard breech-loading cannon was soon completely forgotten (until resurrected here in the BSB classroom!). The 1855 breech-loader of Sir William Armstrong (1810-1900) stole the Church-Goddard thunder, and Goddard's 1868 parliamentary petition appears to have achieved nothing. As early as 1865, Alexander L Holley's Treatise on Ordnance and Armor (New York: Van Nostrand; London: Trübner), while full of Armstrong, has not a mention of Church or Goddard.

[Can anyone find anything further on the 1853 Church-Goddard breech-loader, such as details of the patent, or even a picture?]
 
From this page: (Advertising a copy of " Manufacture of Rotating Chambered Breech Loading Fire-Arms] & [Minie Projectiles] & [Wenham & Bentley & Church & Goddard - Fire-Arms & Ordnance] & [Talbot v. Laroche - Photography] & [Newton's Improved Construction of Tenon] &&&&c " [only £193.93 - A$ 331.45 - need any more bedtime reading??])



"to William Church and Samuel Aspinwall Goddard, both of Birmingham, for an improvement or improvements in ordnance. --- [Dated 26th July, 1854.] p. 293-294, wiht an engraved plate(1 figures)."

Sort of confirms SAG's name, too.
 
From this family name history page:
Subject: Goddard
Source: Source: Genealogies of the Families and Descendants of the Early Settlers of Watertown, Massachusetts, Includes Waltham and Weston - by Henry Bond, M.D. Boston, 1860.

Joseph Goddard b. Apr 15, 1761; Justice of the Peace, Brookline from 1811 to 1824; he inherited the old homestead, where he died 184_.
He m. Oct 29, 1785, Mary Aspinwall, born Mar 31, 1765, dau. of Samuel & Sibil Aspinwall of Brookline. She d. Feb 5, 1825 &

(children 1-6 listed, then):

7. Samuel Aspinwall Goddard b. Oct. 4, 1796; m. Sept 4, 1824 at Birmingham, England, where he resided; m. Julia Backope.
Children:
1. Julia Backope Goddard b. July 12, 1825.
2. Mary Louisa May Goddard b. Oct 28, 1826.
3. Edward Delavan Goddard b. Apr 13, 1828.
4. William Henry Goddard.
5. Caroline Elizabeth Grey Goddard.

(children 8-12 [of SAG's parents] listed)
 
To partially answer the question in my previous post, the London Gazette (10 February 1854) concerns patent 203 of William Church and Samuel Aspinwall Goddard for "an improvement in ordnance".

Other London Gazette mentions of Goddard (SAG) are:

4 November 1842: re "fiat of bankruptcy" of 1 November 1842 against SAG and Richard Hill. This matter dragged on until 19 October 1847, with dividends of 4d and 1.0625d in the pound being paid.
6 June 1851: announcement of the withdrawal of SAG on 9 January 1850 from a partnership with William Baker, Job Cutler and Henry Van Wart, trading as The Caledonian Tube Co (Coat Bridge, Lanark).
17 December 1852: re patent 988 for "improvements in the construction of pistols" (also 12 April 1853).
18 August 1854: re patent 1639 of 26 July 1854 to William Church and SAG for "an improvement or improvements in ordnance" (also 5 December 1854; not renewed 30 October 1857).
15 May 1855: re patent 17 "a new or improved fire-arm, a portion of which is applicable to ordnance". (Not renewed 30 April 1858).
28 September 1855: re patent 2015 "a new or improved method of preventing the injurious fouling of the barrels of firearms, and of cleaning the same when fouled".
 
Lloyd said:
... Crest and Arms of the Samuel Aspinwall Goddard (granted 1842) ...
Click to expand...

Great find, Lloyd; I like a nice coat of arms! ;) And granted just as SAG was facing five years of bankruptcy proceedings. I'm open to correction (not having studied Latin since 1965!), but I think the motto translates as: "Stag not Slave".
 
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