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The Royal Air Force

I thought I knew my RAF aircraft but cannot place that bomber in the newspaper advert ? perhaps some one will put me wise ? Eric
 
Hi Eric - I think it is a Hampden Bomber - oldmohawk
hamden.jpg
 
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Lanc_landing_at_Tabora_Tanganyika_1959.jpgThanks OldMohawk. I can quite easily make it out from your pic, but the advert view threw me ! I have flew in some old aircraft, Avro Lancs, Handley Page Hastings, Sunderlands etc but nothing that old. The date on the Lanc pic should read 1950 not 1959 Eric
 
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When I did my National Service(1948- 1950) in the RAF I was stationed at RAF Wig Bay (Stranraer) 57 MU which was a Sunderland maintenance unit, although I was ground staff I was fortunate to enough to be able to "Cadge" a few flights in the Sunderland as there were only basic crews for air testing. On occasions over to Shorts at Belfast. The most memorable was to RAF Calshot In 1950 when the Sunderland was to lead a flypast at the Farnborough Airshow. I remember flying back on the return journey up the middle of England and being able to see the sea on both sides of the aircraft. Over the Sheffield area we were formatted on by a Spitfire, a wonderful sight, then seeing Blackpool Tower, over the Isle Of Man and back Wig Bay. Happy Days!!
Regards Reg
 
roverman, I 'done my time' on Sunderlands on 205/209 Sqdn at RAF Seletar, Singapore 1954/5. It was on Air Sea rescue duties. Incidently that airport, now a civilian airport, still exists nearly 60 years later, and more surprsingly, so do the married quarters where my late Wife and I lived (found that out from Google Earth). Happy carefree days. Eric
 
Whilst looking for something else, I came across this wonderful painting by Dame Laura Knight "Take Off" c.1943. Can anyone tell me please what type of plane this was? And can someone tell me if the airman next to the pilot would be the flight engineer? Viv.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1349092222.537034.jpg
 
Hi Viv,
I saw your post and thought I might know the answer but then saw it was an 'inside' view so maybe I don't.

It looks like a Lancaster and crew positions are:-
Pilot Seated on the left hand side of the cockpit. There was no Co-Pilot
Flight Engineer Seated next to the pilot on a folding seat with a panel in front but also a panel on the right of the fuselage behind the seat.
Navigator Seated at a table facing sidewards to the left of the aircraft and directly behind the pilot.
Bomb Aimer Seated when operating the front gun turret, but positioned in a laying position when bombing.
Wireless Operator Seated on the left facing forward and directly behind the navigator
Mid-Upper Gunner Seated in the mid upper turret, which was also in the unheated section of the fuselage
Rear Gunner Seated in the rear turret.

Looking at the painting, someone is seated to the right of the pilot so he should be the Flight Engineer.
The Navigator can be seen facing left, and the Wireless Operator would be sitting out of view further back on the left.
The 'mystery' is the Flight Sergeant adjusting something on the Engineer's second panel, he can't be the Flight Engineer because he is sat next to the pilot.

So maybe there is some 'artistic licence' and also the searchlight beams would not usually be visible during take-off.
Perhaps cookie273uk might be able to tell us.
oldmohawk
 
That's very helpful Oldmohawk. I do hope it's a Lancaster as my dad was a flight engineer on these. Although, as you say, there's a bit of artistic licence about it, it gives me a good idea of the conditions they had to work in. They look pretty cramped in there, not much room to manoeuvre. Thanks. Viv.
 
Vivienne, Yes, pilot left hand seat and flight engineer to his right, the other 2 members shown are navigator on the left and wireless op on the right. I was a wireless op and it looks a bit like a Sunderland, which I flew in in Singapore 1954, but I do not recognise that radio equipment. I was also on Lancasters in Africal 1949/51 82PR Sqdn and it certainly isn,t a Lanc, that I do know, i am sure somebody will come up with answer. Eric
 
Thanks Eric. Pity it's not a Lancaster, although he did fly on Wellingtons too. Could it be one of those? Have to admit planes all look the same to me - my dads technical expertise certainly didn't rub off much on me! Viv.
 
wireless ops position in Lancaster ac.JPGVivienne, Yes, pilot left hand seat and flight engineer to his right, the other 2 members shown are navigator on the left and wireless op on the right. I was a wireless op and it looks a bit like a Sunderland, which I flew in in Singapore 1954, but I do not recognise that radio equipment. I was also on Lancasters in Africal 1949/51 82PR Sqdn and it certainly isn,t a Lanc, that I do know, i am sure somebody will come up with answer.  Eric have attached internal pic of Lanc showing w/ops position beyond that and to the left was Navigator and directly in front was flt engs position (pilot to his left) Eric
 
Vivienne, the unit with coloured knob was the transmitter, underneath was the receiver, the morse key is on the right, tricky for me as I am left handed, but I adapted. Eric
 
Wow that's fantastic Eric! It would all have been very familiar to my dad. Seems quite roomy by comparison with the Laura Knight painting. See what you mean. My dad had a close shave in one of these. They were on a reconnaisance re-training flight and the Lanc went down in the North Sea off Scotand. Thankfully they were all rescued by a seaplane but it couldn't take the weight of the whole crew so I think they cruised back to Lerwick. Didn't do him any good as he was medically retired out of the RAF. I have a newspaper report somewhere. Must dig it out. I think the site of where the Lanc went down is a listed memorial now. You RAF people really put your lives on the line. Viv.
 
Vivienne, They certainly did put their lives on the line, but not me, I did not enter service until Jun 1948, the war was well and truly over by then, Of all the aircraft I crewed on the Lanc as always been my favourite. Hard to believe it 60 years ago. Happy days Eric
 
My dad loved the RAF too. He was inspired to join at a very young age by his uncle who was a pilot in the RFC in WW1. He too had a lucky escape when the reconnaisance plane he was flying was hit. But he managed to land it with just a gun shot wound to the leg. However the navigator was killed. So my dad must have gone into this with his eyes well and truly open. I don't think my dad ever got over having to retire from the RAF in 1948/9. I'm sure he would have stayed if he'd been able to. Viv.
 
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Hi Folk, I think it Could be a Shorts Stirling, which I believe did have provision for a Co Pilot, also the control levers above the pilots head which appear to be being operated by the Co Pilot look as if it could be a "Shorts" design.

Regards Reg.
 
The Lanc was prone to oil fires and we often came back on 3 engines, a couple of times on 2, but no worries, hard work for the pilot and flight engineer though
 
Very nice detective work all! Thanks, finding it very interesting. Afraid I'd never heard of a Stirling before, so learning new things too. Viv.
 
the Stirling wireless ops position seems identical to Lancasters including same T1154 transmitter and R1155 receiver, both very advanced or their day. Eric
 
These roles will be familiar to you Eric, from an Avro Lancaster. Well a little before your time (WW2) but I'm sure they'll look familiar. Found the photos on Wikipedia. Viv.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1349121663.747458.jpg Wireless Operator
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1349121683.113779.jpg Flight Engineer
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1349121700.701649.jpg Navigator
 
Thanks Mohawk for confirming my thoughts and for posting the link to the "Stirling" , so much detail.
Regards Reg
 
Vivienne, that first pic brings back memories, sat there over 300 times in the 2 years I was with the squadron, purely a peaceful operation, photographing all the british colonies in Africa for mapping purposes and the Lancaster was the ideal a/c, survey height was 22,000 ft, no problem there and,assuming weather OK, sorties were up to 10 hours, as we carried no pay load and just 4 crew no problem there either, it was also my job to change the the film cartridges in the 2 cameras and pass the coffee and sandwiches around, general dogsbody as I had the least to do,but I loved it. Eric
 
82 Squadron Lancaster.JPGVivienne, here is a pic of one of our lancs on survey taken by the RAF Review the 'in house' magazine of the time
 
cookie273uk said:
the Stirling wireless ops position seems identical to Lancasters including same T1154 transmitter and R1155 receiver, both very advanced or their day. Eric
Click to expand...

Quite a few radio hams still have these well loved. by them, Tx and Rx. Many use them especially at special events stations.
 
Thanks Eric. They're bigger planes than I thought, look very substantial. I suppose this type of reconnaisannce is rare now with Google maps, satellite etc. How the world has changed. Viv.
 
Yes Vivienne, 86 foot long and a wingspan of 102 feet, standing 22 foot high (top of tail fins). I am beginning to think I am the only ex-aircrew on the forum, what a pity, it would have been nice to meet others. Can you remember what squadron(s) your Dad was on, and his years of sevice, my Dad was to old, He was 39 when the war started. Eric
 
Hi Eric. I'll jot down what I know so far. (My dad never discussed what he did in the war, and as a youngster I didn't want to know. But now wish I'd asked him). My dad completed his Cambridge University Cadet training in about 1940. By 1941 he was involved in dropping agents and supplies for the French underground. He was on Lancasters in 1944. His accident occurred in 1948. The extract below is the listing from Colin Cummings's "Final Landings". It says 'OCU', but I think he was there for re-training of some sort (not sure about that). I don't actually know the squadron, maybe some of the above gives an indication? I have a newspaper report of the accident, but it doesn't mention the squadron name. I'm trying to copy the newspaper report, but it's proving challenging. Will post when I've sorted it out as you might like to read it. There were 2 Birmingham crew members on the flight. The only other service info I have is he was also based in Lindholme, Yorkshire in I think about 1946/7.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1349269489.606155.jpgImageUploadedByTapatalk1349269839.354269.jpg
4u4u9u6y.jpg
The loss of the aircraft Avro Lancaster III is recorded on the Canmore list of monuments.


Viv.
 
Hi Viv,

if your Dad was involved in operations dropping agents and supplies into occupied France, then chances are he could have been based at RAF Tempsford, which is on the A1 between Biggleswade and St Neots. This airfield was used throughout the War for 'secret' operations. There are numerous publications and websites about it, if you want to find out more. If I remember correctly, aircraft used included Lysanders, Hudsons and Stirlings.

Hope this is of interest,

G
 
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