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Staniforth Street Old Wall

Shelagh

Shelagh
I am not sure if I am in the correct place, I haven't been on for a long while and the site has changed so much. we took our granddaughter to the Unite student flats at no 30 Staniforth st .Inside the ground there is a thick wall, obviously very old it seems to run the length of the flats and is also surrounded by many other sky scrapers, all appear to be student accomodation. Does anyone
know about this wall , or what was there before, it could even be part of a chimney. Or Listed.
Shelagh
ps what is a photo bucket ?
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
hi shelagh thanks for the photo...i have turned it round for you...i went down staniforth st a few days back in search of your wall but could see no way to get a closer look at it..is there an easy way to get in

lyn

wall.jpeg
 

Shelagh

Shelagh
hi shelagh thanks for the photo...i have turned it round for you...i went down staniforth st a few days back in search of your wall but could see no way to get a closer look at it..is there an easy way to get in

lyn

View attachment 108353

The entrance is on Staniforth street. As you come from bagot street it's on the left, opposite the council car park. It's an archway into the unite student accommodation car park. When you enter the arch, there is a path leading to the left and the wall runs alongside the path.
Shelagh
 

pjmburns

master brummie
I think this is part of it but am not sure as the aerial shot was hard to get right. I could not find anything "listed" in the area.
Janice
 

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Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
thanks for the aerial shots janice that is exactly how i saw it...shelagh so i could get to the wall via the car park then ?

lyn
 

pjmburns

master brummie
I have looked on old maps - the wall seems to follow the line of the old buildings and a scrap yard but none seem significant. I wonder if there is a difference in height of the ground and it was left as a retaining wall of some sort. It would be interesting to see plans of the development to see if there is any indication of why the wall was left. Unless it is linked to the Penworks which is the only listed building I found in Moland Street and backing onto the area.
Janice
 
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Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
morning janice..when i took a look a few days back i could actually see the wall but only from the locked gates of the complex on staniforth st...the position looks about right to me.think i would need permission to get any closer to wall..but as you say...why has it been left standing

lyn
 

pjmburns

master brummie
I tried to see if I could find out who the architects were of the flats, or see the planning application to see if it said why. Only had a quick look - planning applications only seem to be online until permission is given and wasn't successful with finding the architects.
On the description of the Pen Works (listed) it does refer to the "slope of the land" and later "the fall of the land" - that is why I wondered if it was retaining soil. No mention of anything else listed on the site.
Janice
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
ok janice thanks for trying to find anything else out about this wall:rolleyes: i dont have time at the min but i think when i have i may go down again and try and speak to someone..its a long shot though unless of course mike maybe able to pinpoint what building the wall belonged to

lyn
 

pjmburns

master brummie
I think I have found out some info - just trying to save documents - it seems it is part of a listed building in Moland Street.
Janice
 

pjmburns

master brummie
Right here goes. This application made in 2013 refers to part of the boundary wall of a building backing on to the site where the flats are. There was a lot of other bits of paperwork but I have saved the ones which help most. Namely a map, press notice and plans. Had problems uploading as they were pdf files and wouldn't open properly. Hope this works.
See what you think.
Janice
 

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Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
great janice...the photo that goes with the plans definately looks like our wall the snippet mentions the pen works but i would have thought the pen works was too far away to see it from staniforth st....if mike could have a look at post 21 maybe he can identify the tower block which shows the wall below it and then overlay on a map to see what building was attached to the wall before demolision but i think we are making some headway now

lyn
 

pjmburns

master brummie
I think the tower block is called Penworks House. I suspect that the original pen works may have been linked to a building long gone or a larger building with only part of it saved but for some reason that wall remained and became part of the listing when the pen works was listed. Guesswork as it is hard to tell how far buildings stretch - on the map it does look as if the new build and the pen works sort of halve the land so it might be possible - it just seemed a huge coincidence if it wasn't our wall.
Janice
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
i agree with you janice....will ask mike to take a look at this thread and see what he can come up with..

lyn
 

mikejee

Super Moderator
Staff member
Have examined the OS maps and overlaid the c1889 map (probably actually about 1884) on Google Earth. Have also examined the directories . The first thing that is apparent is that , unless the Newhall pen works took over some nearby buildings for a short time after WW2, which is very unlikely, the wall has nothing to do with the penworks, and the "Penworks House" is just a name conjured up by some planner because it sounded good and was in an are where there were a number of pen manufactories. Newhall Penworks was, as seen in the . OS map c1921 (Fig.1) a fair distance from the site. In fact the Newhall Penworks was only built in 1907 (https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1391127). Overlaying the large scale OS c 1889 map shows that the wall, or at least the main straight bit with the three supporting columns of brickwork are marked on the 1889 map , as can be seen in Figs 2-5 where the overlay opacity is reduced by differing amounts . Fig 6 shows the c1889 map in closer detail. The c1921 and c1937 maps (Figs.1 & 7) do not show it, though the 1937 map has a space between buildings where it would have been. The c1950 (Fig. 8) and c1970 maps show a wall, but no supporting brick pillars.

I tend to agree with the suggestion that it was just a supporting wall for earth necessary because of the slope of the land. The c1824 Pigott Smith map (Fig 9) shows it would have been possibly a border wall with the land of Josiah Robins but wonder why on earth it was preserved .
 

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  • Fig  8. map c 1950 showing wall. but not supporting brick columns.jpg
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  • Fig. 9. map c 1824 showing about where wall would have been.jpg
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  • Fig.1.map c 1921 moland st Newhall pen works.jpg
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  • Fig.2. overlay of 1889 map of wall.jpg
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  • Fig.6. map c 1889 detail of poss wall.jpg
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  • Fig.7. map c 1937 moland st Newhall pen works.jpg
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