• Welcome to this forum . We are a worldwide group with a common interest in Birmingham and its history. While here, please follow a few simple rules. We ask that you respect other members, thank those who have helped you and please keep your contributions on-topic with the thread.

    We do hope you enjoy your visit. BHF Admin Team

Hare and Hounds, Kingstanding

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
the cottages and the paper shop which used to be a cottage are fine viv...

marc please keep your memories coming this is what this forum is about...most of us on here hold fond memories of the houses and streets we lived in and most of them are gone now...i cant recall who told me about the tunnel but i will try and find some old locals and see if i can get anymore info...in the meantime if you have any old photos of the time you spent at the pub we would love to see them...

lyn
 

Vivienne14

Super Moderator
Staff member
If you were at the H&H until 1982 Marc you must have been living there when I had a memorable visit to the pub. My aunt and nan (originally from Birmingham) came over to visit us from the USA. It must have been about 1974. My aunt, my nan, my mum, and I all went for a drink in the H&H together before my aunt and nan went back to the States. My nan commented about how remarkable it was that, sitting around the table, were 4 generations of women of our family having a drink together. Well it was the one and only time it happened, but when anyone mentions the H&H I always go back to that memory.

You might remember my mum (Nora) who worked across the road at the Candy Stores junction of Tresham and Kingstanding Road.

I started a thread on Cranbourne Rd School so I'll see if I can find it. Might bring back more memories for you! Viv.
 

Marc

knowlegable brummie
If you were at the H&H until 1982 Marc you must have been living there when I had a memorable visit to the pub. My aunt and nan (originally from Birmingham) came over to visit us from the USA. It must have been about 1974. My aunt, my nan, my mum, and I all went for a drink in the H&H together before my aunt and nan went back to the States. My nan commented about how remarkable it was that, sitting around the table, were 4 generations of women of our family having a drink together. Well it was the one and only time it happened, but when anyone mentions the H&H I always go back to that memory.

You might remember my mum (Nora) who worked across the road at the Candy Stores junction of Tresham and Kingstanding Road.

I started a thread on Cranbourne Rd School so I'll see if I can find it. Might bring back more memories for you! Viv.
Oh my Vivienne, I remember than night quite well, it was the first time I had ever met real true life Americans lol. They were so warm and friendly and they even had plenty of time to talk to us young scamps :0)

We were sitting in the Bar on the right hand side as you would enter the pub. They stayed after hours till late and I'm sure a gentleman with them had links with the LAPD but I may be confusing him with someone else.

You know, I can still see us all sitting there chatting and how warm they were, especially one of the older ladies. I'm sure too that they knew my Mother and Father pretty well but exactly how well, I do not know. Amazing!
 

Vivienne14

Super Moderator
Staff member
Meant to say three generations not 4! I'd expect my mum knew your mom and dad as she knew everyone around the shops etc at that point of Kingsatanding Road. She could usually be found chatting with shopkeepers, neighbours etc. We lived in Atlantic Road. Viv.
 

Marc

knowlegable brummie
Meant to say three generations not 4! I'd expect my mum knew your mom and dad as she knew everyone around the shops etc at that point of Kingsatanding Road. She could usually be found chatting with shopkeepers, neighbours etc. We lived in Atlantic Road. Viv.

I must have known your Mom Viv, I used to go into that shop all the time, spending my Dads stash of silver 5 pences and sixpenses.
Can you remeber the LAPD link? The one gentleman gave me an LAPD tie bar which I still have and which I wore throughout my service as a Policeman.
 

Marc

knowlegable brummie
We may even have some photos somewhere of their visit. I'm sure I've seen one or two in the family vaults.
 

Vivienne14

Super Moderator
Staff member
No, sorry Marc, but I'm sure my mom would have remembered it. If there was anything going on there she'd have known about it.

All your 6d's went to a good cause in the Candy Stores. The owners (Mr &Mrs Stanworth) were the first people we knew to have a COLOUR TV. I went round there to watch it (they lived above the shop) and the first thing I saw in colour was 'Family at War'. Was mesmerised by it. So thanks for spending all your dads cash in there! Viv.
 

Marc

knowlegable brummie
Does anyone remember a girl called Paula who also had a younger sister who lived in the houses backing onto the rear of the pub and the bowling green? I can't remember if she went to Kingsthorne or not. She would be 50 something now.
 

Vivienne14

Super Moderator
Staff member
Be good to see photos Marc. I'm sure my dad would have known about it if there was a connection. My aunt and nan went to live in Hollywood in the 1950s, but regularly came back to Birmingham in the summer. Americans/LAPD being on our doorstep would certainly have been of interest. LAPD covered Hollywood, seems quite a coincidence!

Mind you, my aunt used to tell me that when she was in Birmingham people would ask her things like :"do you know so-and-so from New York?" She'd always be amazed at the lack of knowledge of the vastness of the US. Viv.
 

Marc

knowlegable brummie
For anyone interested and for future posterity, here a layout guide to when I lived at the pub.room layout Hare & Hounds past.jpg

I also remember that the Bungalow next door always had a beautiful back garden, unlike ours which was huge and difficult to maintain especially as we didn't even have a law mower.

I do recall finding hundreds of old clay pipes in the back garden surrounding the green. Presumably from back in it's hey day.
The cellars were also huge downstairs and very very creepy. The was a long long wide corridor arrangement underneath the pub that lead out to the underground servery. That's what people may have called the tunnel.
When we left we left behind a pair of real Bulls horns and a Kudu skull with long horns. Heaven knows where they ended up.
My Father was effectively forced out of the trade on an early ill health pension. He had been one of the only Landlords able to control the patrons through being firm but fair. Whilst Dad ran the pub, profits increased for the first time in decades until a new area manager arrived. Then suddenly the stocks began to show dramatic shorts despite weekly stock takes and Mom and Dad buying several bottles of spirits every week to help make up the losses.
The cause of this was either theft by staff and/or customers, or simply the brewery wanting to get my Dad out early to put in a new manager along with a refit but mainly to avoid paying him a full pension which was due within just a few years.

Sadly, he was forced to leave due to a heart attack brought on by the stress of the low stocks. ( I had personally seen one member of staff drinking from the optics before the bar opened) No names mentioned, but as they had to move out quickly into a normal semi detached house, we had to leave behind so many belongings including clothes, furniture, personal items including medals and various things my parents had collected during their time in the trade including Grandfather and Gran Mother clocks etc.
(Apologies if my punctuation and paragraphs are bad but I'm just writing this straight down as it comes from memory).

We moved to Sutton Coldfield where Dad lived till he was 83 and Mom 84 but Dad was almost 10 years older than Mom.

I will try to dig out some photos but I don't have many. I do have pics of the Barmen Jerry and Bill Bailey along with a photo of Dolly who worked the OAP's club in the lounge along with the lovely Elsie.

I also vividly remember the gorgeous older woman :) Pat of whom I had a huge crush (Embarrassed smile) and her husband whos name surpasses me at present. (Possibly John, they used to live off Kingstanding Road up past Hawthorne Road somewhere, near a small row of shops.

I'll try to set all this out in some resemblance of order at a later date. At the moment I'm lying in my sick bed recalling all these fond memories. I don't really know if they are of interest to anyone, or just meaningless ramblings but one day, perhaps in a few decades and if this great community is still thriving, my dribble may be of some use to someone. I mean that in the nicest possible way. I'm sure I will add more whilst I have the strength to write, so please excuse me if my posts gone on a little. I apologise in advance.
 

Marc

knowlegable brummie
No, sorry Marc, but I'm sure my mom would have remembered it. If there was anything going on there she'd have known about it.

All your 6d's went to a good cause in the Candy Stores. The owners (Mr &Mrs Stanworth) were the first people we knew to have a COLOUR TV. I went round there to watch it (they lived above the shop) and the first thing I saw in colour was 'Family at War'. Was mesmerised by it. So thanks for spending all your dads cash in there! Viv.
Hey Viv, we had to use Radio Rentals to hire our first enormous Colour Tv inside a huge wooden sliding door piece of furniture with a long cable on the remote control hehe.

Atlantic Road to me at that time was where the posh people lived Viv. I used to have a schoolmate who lived there, she went to Perry Common and I can see her face now. She was posh but once again her name has dropped from my memory.
 

Marc

knowlegable brummie
Be good to see photos Marc. I'm sure my dad would have known about it if there was a connection. My aunt and nan went to live in Hollywood in the 1950s, but regularly came back to Birmingham in the summer. Americans/LAPD being on our doorstep would certainly have been of interest. LAPD covered Hollywood, seems quite a coincidence!

Mind you, my aunt used to tell me that when she was in Birmingham people would ask her things like :"do you know so-and-so from New York?" She'd always be amazed at the lack of knowledge of the vastness of the US. Viv.

So there is a Los Angeles link. I'm sure the man I spoke to had links or even worked for the department at some stage. We may never know, but amazing to recall that night. Were you there with them Viv when they came into to the pub?
I know my Mother Joanne was most excited to welcome them over.
You know, thinking back I'm sure she said we were related to someone in the group and that they now only rarely come back to the UK. I do recall that they had 1000% American accents.

So, in 1982 I was 17, I'm almost sure the visit was earlier than that?
 

Vivienne14

Super Moderator
Staff member
How good to hear your memories Marc. I know people will be interested to hear about your time there from the point of view of those knowing the area, hearing about what it was like for a youngster living in a pub, the historical aspects and many more aspects ....... So keep 'em coming. And thanks it's certainly jogging my memory too. Hope you feel better soon.

Oh and no, we weren't posh. But some neighbours certainly had other ideas! Viv.
 

Vivienne14

Super Moderator
Staff member
Yes I was with my aunt and nan. My aunt had a definite American accent and was a very glamorous lady. My nan didn't have much of an American accent as she didn't spend so much time in the US. For many years she spent winter out there and came back to stay in Birmingham for the summer. Don't know why except it was probably to do with the climate; don't think she liked British winters. Eventually she settled back in Birmingham. The date would have been about mid-1970s when we, the '3 generations', came to the H&H. Definitely wasn't in the 80s as I'd moved away by then. Viv.
 

Marc

knowlegable brummie
So there is a Los Angeles link. I'm sure the man I spoke to had links or even worked for the department at some stage. We may never know, but amazing to recall that night. Were you there with them Viv when they came into to the pub?
I know my Mother Joanne was most excited to welcome them over.
You know, thinking back I'm sure she said we were related to someone in the group and that they now only rarely come back to the UK. I do recall that they had 1000% American accents.

So, in 1982 I was 17, I'm almost sure the visit was earlier than that?

Edit ...Sorry Viv, you said 1974 which is about right. I was a mere 9 years of age haha
 

Vivienne14

Super Moderator
Staff member
Marc, just occurred to me our visit would have been in June/ July/ August time. They'd usually be out of the U.K. by September. And I think it was daytime or possibly early evening when it was still light. I remember the sunlight pouring through the pub windows, viv.
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
The cellars were also huge downstairs and very very creepy. The was a long long wide corridor arrangement underneath the pub that lead out to the underground servery. That's what people may have called the tunnel.

hi marc just quoting the above bit from you and yes i bet this is where the story about the tunnel comes from..its strange that you mentioned finding loads of old clay pipes in the back garden....my brother who lives some roads away in plumstead road has over the years also dug up many pipes...

lyn
 

Vivienne14

Super Moderator
Staff member
I can fully understand clusters of clay pipes in the H&H (former Greyhound) grounds, but as you say, not as far away as Plumstead Road Lyn. All of the area pre-1920/30s was farmland with agricultural-related buildings, a few mills and water services. Maybe there was previously a farm or farm buildings on the ground that's now Plumstead Road. Could it be connected with Warren Farm/Pool(e)? I expect they'd have to be buildings where groups of men congregated (although we do know of course that women were also known to smoke a pipe). So my guess is Plumstead Road is on top of Warren/Pool(e) Farm land. Think we need a map and a separate thread perhaps?

And wonder if there's any chance of a kind person posting photos of the finds maybe? Viv.
 

mikejee

Super Moderator
Staff member
Clay pipes are often found in rubbish sumps, and these were not controlled and could be anywhere back around 1900.
 
Top