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Gun Trade Factories

Re: gun trade fatories

I am appalled at this suggestion to obliterate the name Gun Quarter, generations of my family worked in this trade from at least 1841 the first census record I have, down to my dad as a boy running errands for the gunsmiths, carrying parts from one small workshop to another, and fetching dinners for the men in his lunchtime from school. I agree that a petition should be started to overrule this senseless decision, and I would be only too eager to sign it.
 
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I don't think that the Crockodile Works is the name of the area. Surely it is just the name of a retained old industrial 'relic building' located in Newtown and as some of the recent photo's show...nicely done. From looking on GE the Gun Quarter area also seems to be retaining and refurbishing some of the old factories...themselves probably not having made guns for years. Still if you look at some of the old photo's of decrepid Gun Quarter buildings on here, even in their heyday, then what is the loss? Since the housing there has little or nothing to do with manufacturing guns now; why not abide by the wishes of the current residents. Do they not have a stake in the procedings? I am sure that you will agree that they do. You can't put all local names under one theme but if that is the case well, whilst always appreciating the history of the Black Country, I never liked the name much and this has nothing to do with racial connotations...just sounded like a grimey place. My family came from there.
I read somewhere, a while back, that East Birmingham was the most depressed area in the UK. The Washwood Heath area I think. Heartlands you say. Did the naming give it a boost?
Surely we can be nostalgic about the past but we do not have to be stuck in it. We can appreciate the history and maintain keynotes...at the same time looking to the future which I suspect has absolutely nothing to do with the past at this point. I don't think renaming the Bull Ring is on the cards is it? Even though it refers to baiting unfortunate animals. Anyway if this is up for grabs...then since the Midland Red had a big pressence there...well...how about Red Square...nah.
 
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just been told that its in the birmingham mail today that its the people of newtown who want the name gun quarter removed because of all the gun crime that is in the area...wel alll i can say is if the police cant stop the gun crime down there how on earth do they think can changing the name of the area will..???.they say they dont want to be labelled....im afraid the area has been known for the gun crime for 20 years now so what difference will it make...what a very silly idea....
 
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Re: gun trade fatories

Although I don't agree with removing the name Gun Quarter, I suspect it is because visitors, and those that do not know Birmingham's history might think it is a new name associtated with the criminal underworld. The Gun Quarter is obviously larger than I thought it was, I thought it was the area around Loveday Street/Colmore Circus etc, and there are few residents there. Perhaps it stretches further back than I thought. Perhaps Gun Manufacturing Quarter - a re-name might be a better move than to remove the historical base we are all familiar with, or Old Gun Quarter. Would a petition to the Council help?
 
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Rupert said:
Is there a gun quarter still present there? Most of it seems to be redeveloped for housing...the seedy back garden premisses no longer there. Anyway..what if the name was 'the slave market'...would there be the same nostalgia for keeping that also. I doubt it. I can understand residents not wanting to live in a gun quarter.
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Westley Richards who have made guns in Birmingham since 1812 have a new purpose built factory in Pritchett Street on the corner of Newtown Row. There is also the Proof House still very much in operation. I like Shorties idea of The Old Gun Quarter.
 
Re: gun trade fatories

Wendy said:
Westley Richards who have made guns in Birmingham since 1812 have a new purpose built factory in Pritchett Street on the corner of Newtown Row. There is also the Proof House still very much in operation. I like Shorties idea of The Old Gun Quarter.
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I agree Wendy The Old Gun Quarter sound Perfect to me.We have St Chads as a landmark but the area of St Georges has gone from when we new it.Take what was once the Italian Quarter and is now Eastside how boring is this? And I cant comment on the buildings that are being erected in that area. Dek
 
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Wendy, the gun barrel proof house is nowhere near the gun quarter. This building is located on the canal just below Curzon St. Station and as you say still in business. Maybe a half way between the current gun quarter and an old old gun quarter that may have been located in Deritend. I am suprised that the Quarter is considered to reach as far as New Town. Is the 'Gun Quarter' a mailing address? If so surely the mailing address for Newtown would be Newtown. You read 'wiki' too seemingly and it indicates that only air pistols are produced for the home market now. Maybe they still make fine shotguns also for sportsmen. When no guns are being manufactured there...surely the word quarter is gone.
 
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I have just sent an email to the Birmingham Mail giving my opinion of the name change and suggesting a wider consultation is made so that the whole of Birmingham can have a say in the hope that this historic part of our heritage is saved. The address is below if anyone else wishes to make their views known (as requested) is [email protected]
 
Re: gun trade fatories

Why don't we educate people to these areas, surely Birmingham City Council could use these area and their history in some form of promotion. Keep the area names, but let people know what was their and why it was so called. You never know when people know the area has a historical link they may appreciate the heritage.
 
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Rupert, I understand what you say about the quarter is gone, but what you possibly don't know is that the Council is trying to erase all of Birmingham's past - not sure if it deliberate, but it certainly seems like it. Birmingham was known as the 'City of 1000 Trades' and it is simply that history which should be retained. If you remove Birmingham's history by deleting all the pointers to those lost (or slmost lost) trades, what will our children and grandchildren have to remind them? Sheffield seems proud of its heavy metal and industrial past - you can see a demonstration of spoon polishing in Sheffield, but Birmingham? No! I personally think more should be made of our heritage than is done now and I am sure that I am not the only one. BCC seems only interested in the retail trade. Inappropriate and sad.
 
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I cant ever remember Birmingham cuoncill responding favorably to a petition by just 50 people. It seems to me this is a case of them trying to be seen as modern pc body to please powers that be. Maybe they will rename Small Heath, Area size challenged Heath.
 
Re: gun trade fatories

Why St Georges and St Chads anyway. I have looked at the parish map for St Georges Newtown and the boundary is the canal so it does not cover the area I think of as the Gun Quarter. What was the name of the Gun Quarter church which was knocked down to build the Ringway?

As for the Proof House, I look out for it every time I pass on the train as I find the trophy of arms over the door facinating.
View attachment 69832Thumbnail may not enlarge as I have taken it from their website.
 
Re: gun trade fatories

DavidGrain said:
Why St Georges and St Chads anyway. I have looked at the parish map for St Georges Newtown and the boundary is the canal so it does not cover the area I think of as the Gun Quarter. What was the name of the Gun Quarter church which was knocked down to build the Ringway?

As for the Proof House, I look out for it every time I pass on the train as I find the trophy of arms over the door facinating.
View attachment 69832Thumbnail may not enlarge as I have taken it from their website.
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The church was St Mary's Wittall Street my gt grandparents were married there. The railings of the church are still visable by the childrens hospital.
 
Re: gun trade fatories

I agree with everything that has been said here, but I think the point is (and I think,which everyone is frightened to say) that the people who are making the decisions are not necessarily Birmingham born and bred or know or care too much about the cultural heritage of the area. When you have a large influx of immigrants to a small area like a city , some quite rightly, will stand for local office, and local Goverment, this can be a conflict of local interests and or understanding.
paul
 
Re: gun trade fatories

Wendy said:
The church was St Mary's Wittall Street my gt grandparents were married there. The railings of the church are still visable by the childrens hospital.
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Hi Wendy although this may be the church David is thinking of it was demolished long before the Ringway was built in saying that I can,t think of another church in that area.Dek
 
Re: gun trade fatories

I don't see this as a big deal. It's just the word 'gun' is it not. Why not call it St Mary's or perhaps there is another St Mary's...it does not matter that this church is no longer there and quarters seem to move around a bit. After they are gone, the name does not have to remain behind. What about if this area now became an area that produced fine lace and textiles. Would it still have to be called the gun quarter and not the textile quarter. When we are all gone then no-one will care but the history will not be lost for those doing research. Name or no name. The sad thing is that it 'is' all history and there has been little manufacturing to move forward with. This fact is not exclusive to this area.
 
Re: gun trade fatories

Thanks Wendy and Dek. I may have just assumed it was demolished for the Ringway as I did not know when it was demolished. Cities develop in concentric rings and I know that much of Birmingham's Georgian properties were lost with the Ringway. Talking of changing the names in the area; Is Printing House Street still relevant if the Post and Mail have moved out?
 
Re: gun trade fatories

The relevance is the street name and the local knowledge of that particular street. No need to change that. A quarter can mean anything or nothing and is only a general location. (there seems to be various ideas as to where the Gun Quarter area extended to) This all brings to mind a name change in Canada...Berlin (I think it was) changed it's name to Kitchener for obvious reasons at the time. Some of these old factories moved to much better accomodation on the outskirts and are still in business. I seem to remember the Crocodile Works being one of them from here but am not sure.
 
Re: gun trade fatories

Yes St Mary's was demolished in the 1920's and there were a lot of people buried there who lost their lives in the munitions factories. I suppose we can go round and round in circles on this topic but now it seems the council have made their minds up. Oh well I feel sorry for the families who started these manufacturers William Tranter springs to mind.
 
Re: gun trade fatories

hi wend i guess you are right about going round and round in circles but the thing is even if they get rid of the name the gun quarter we who know it as that will always call it so and its still written in the history books as being known by this name....cant re write all those can they... so in years to come folk will be reading all about how ie st chads was formally know as the gun quarter..oh and yes i also think its a total lack of respect by the council for those who worked and lost lives in this great industry...shame on them....

lyn
 
Re: gun trade fatories

Dont they realise that it will still be called the Gun quarter, known for the using of them, not for making them. So sad.

Lynne.
 
Re: gun trade fatories

I could not agree more I am disgusted and have sent my views to Birmingham Council and hope that more people do the same to save our proud heritage
 
Re: gun trade fatories

CAN ANYONE REMEMBER IF THERE WAS A GUNSMITH ON MOSELEY ROAD IN THE 1960s.MY BROTHER WORKED THERE WHEN HE LEFT SCHOOL.
 
Re: gun trade fatories

Sandra
From 1964 kellys

GUN IMPLEMENT MKRS.

Parker Alfred J. Ltd, 348 Moseley rd 12 ​


​
 
Re: gun trade fatories

St Mary's was demolished (I think I am right) in 1927. Such a pity, it must have been a truly wonderful sight, built to hold a congregation of 1,700.
 
Re: gun trade fatories

Walked by that factory on Moseley Road many a time in the early to late 70's,if i recall correctly it had a light blue,and white frontage,often wondered if they still made arms there even then.
 
Re: gun trade fatories

For those people who do not want Birminghnam associated with gun manufacturing, I wonder if they ever rode on a BSA bike made by the Birmingham Small Arms Company with their trade mark of three rifles
 
Re: gun trade fatories

oldroddy said:
Walked by that factory on Moseley Road many a time in the early to late 70's,if i recall correctly it had a light blue,and white frontage,often wondered if they still made arms there even then.
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My late father in law was working there in 2000 and it was then owned by a lady. They were making guns there up until the new laws on firearms came in after Dunblane. Obviously orders dried up and they went into the refurbishment of existing sporting guns. I think they eventually closed.
 
One of the earlier threads mentioned something about the "old decrepit factories that weren't much loss anyway".
 
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