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What Happened To The Lake House In Boldmere

I know this is a little off track but in 1871 Benjamin is listed with his wife Sarah and niece Rebecca (aged 22) at New Oscott. In 1881 Sarah has gone )I assume died) and a Rebecca is listed as wife (aged 32). Is this the same Rebecca?? Did Sarah and Rebecca bring money to the marriages to enable Lake House to be built?
 
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Janice - I'm just going down that route and have a lot more things to try. I believe it is the same Rebecca as I found a marriage in 1872 in West Bromwich. Just looking to see if I can find out which church. I'm sure Cardean17 will confirm or put me right.

Cardean17, I came past Lakehouse Road today and noticed that the three houses built on the site of the Lakehouse and fronting on to Chester Road are of a different style to those actually in Lakehouse Road. Not sure if this is significant or not. Perhaps they were built by a different company? Would this explain your conflicting dates? They appear to be of an older style.
 
Hi To all...Lady Penelope is correct I have all the information regarding the dates for the people etc, my main quest is to find what happened to the Lake House.. It was there from around 1826 to around 1935. As I have now read Benjamin's will I can fill in some more pieces for our family, though as always its opened up some more debate. Basically Sarah (wife No1) died in 1872 and is buried in the crypt in St Michaels Church. Rebecca was the niece that became wife No2. They had two children one died at five days old and the other became a well know figure in our family and my mothers recollections of the house came from her. Interestingly the Will (though my wife is going over it fully) states that Rebecca can live off the proceeds of his personal estate provided she doesn't remarry (which she does in 1886 three years after he dies) upon which everything goes to his daughter who had already been left the house and land and it apparently was rented out after his death. She couldn't take full control until she reached 21. However I need to do more work because I'm sure that William Randle purchased the house as he is shown as living in it from 1887, or perhaps he rented. To be honest I think it was bought and William passed it Minnie May Randle who sold it for redevelopment. The next bit is difficult as the family Chinese whispers (some of which I have totally blown apart) state that his daughter (Elizabeth Holloway) married becoming Elizabeth Tilley, and her husband gambled all of the value of the house etc away, and he died a pauper. However she remarries to become Elizabeth Spencer, but when she dies still has a reasonable sum of money left so that's where I am at the moment. Regardless of the human input I would so love to see a picture or even a plan of the house....fingers crossed and thanks again to everyone. Lady P, yes the three houses are different and if you look at number 334 (the right hand one) you can see the remains of the circular drive...
 
That's all fascinating but a lot to take in. I think I found Elizabeth on the next census in Balsall Heath, aged 16 and living 'on own means' as a boarder. There may have been other tenants / owners of the Lake House. I also found Minnie Mary living with the Moores on Sutton Road, Erdington in 1922 (Electoral Roll). I will have another look at the circular drive.
 
Spot on...if you take a look on Google maps for Lake House Road and click on the satellite image then zoom in over the three houses and you will see what is left of the circular drive which you can see on the 1913 map
 
Cardean17 said:
Interestingly the Will (though my wife is going over it fully) states that Rebecca can live off the proceeds of his personal estate provided she doesn't remarry (which she does in 1886 three years after he dies) upon which everything goes to his daughter who had already been left the house and land and it apparently was rented out after his death. She couldn't take full control until she reached 21. However I need to do more work because I'm sure that William Randle purchased the house as he is shown as living in it from 1887, or perhaps he rented.
Click to expand...
Is it not possible that there were trustees for Elizabeth who decided to sell the house on her behalf to William Randle?
 
pjmburns said:
Is it not possible that there were trustees for Elizabeth who decided to sell the house on her behalf to William Randle?
Click to expand...
Yes very possible my wife is going through the will which at the moment which is quite long and we should be able to figure it out soon..I'm guessing that was the case as W. Randle is living in it when she was only 11 years old..Watch this space
 
Pedrocut, your post #42 explains why William Randle's widow ended up living at York Lodge, she was with her parents, the Moores. Straying from topic again but York Lodge was one of the large houses on Sutton Road which were demolished in the 1960's to build the Lyndhurst Council Estate.

I believe (although I will have to check) that Mrs Randle's brother died in his thirties so if there were no other children she may have inherited York Lodge which together with the proceeds from Lakehouse would explain why she left such a large amount of money in her will.

I may be wrong but I don't think that the Benjamin Holloway in your post #43 is the Lakehouse Man. Warley is a considerable distance away from Boldmere to exhibit your kidney beans. Although he did have large gardens!

Cardean17, I realise that this is at the wrong end of the investigation but, Like Janice, I'm still wondering where he got his money from to buy such a large property.

I think I'm going to go and see if I can find out from any of the residents how old the three houses are, the ones that are actually built on the Lakehouse site. What we could do with looking at is rate books for the period 1920 to 1945, surely these will give owner's and tenant's details.
 
Morturn, your post #38 - I think the dairy was nearer to Sycamore Road but I'll have a look next time I go past. There's a sort of yard still there I think.
 
Pedrocut..Hi I can state for a fact that it was not our Benjamin Holloway and the show because he was serving in the cavalry in India up until 1869.
Lady Penelope: Yes that is a big question but it is now looking like that wasn't all he had as there seems to be reference to other properties in the will.
My better half has nearly finished the will and we now know a bit more...will post when finished
 
Have you looked at Benjamin’s involvement during his stay in India?

Could Benjamin have been in this homecoming?

“When the order came to send the Queen's Bays (2nd Dragoon Guards) home to England in 1869 nearly one hundred men elected to stay in India. They were split up and posted to seven different British cavalry regiments that were there already. The remainder gave up their horses and embarked on the 'Malabar' on 31 Dec 1869. They landed at Suez, travelled by train from Cairo to Alexandra and arrived at Portsmouth on 31 Jan 1870.”
 
Hi Pedrocut..Yes I'm sure it was his return home as he had spent 33 years in the army and he retired in 1869 as a Captain on half pay..so it fits....
 
I was discussing the Lake House over breakfast this morning at St Michael's. Not sure if it's significant but apparently, before the Crimean War, officers had to buy their commissions and they weren't cheap.

Looking forward to the contents of the will!
 
Just a theory...William Randle died in 1920 and Lake House was getting old. Minnie Randle wanted somewhere close but more modern. She died in 1941 at Sandy Bank, Pilkington Avenue, Wylde Green. On the 1937 Map only half of Pilkington Avenue had been cut, and it does not exist on the 1913 Map.

In 1938 there is an advert for a maid, apply Mrs Randle, 37 Pilkington Avenue, Wylde Green.

Notice I said more modern and not smaller, see 37 today on Google!

B6FE1B2B-4C46-4E84-B591-086C8A8D87B8.jpeg
 
Hi Penelope..Benjamin joined the 15th Hussars in 1836 and was a private he rose through the ordinary ranks to Troop Sergeant Major (and would have looked like the picture I have posted of Troop SM of the 15th at the time when he was) he then made it to Regimental Sergeant Major. Then he became a quartermaster which were picked from the most senior NCO's and given a commission. He did this for two years and then was moved to the 2nd Dragoon Guards as quartermaster. His service record shows that he was commissioned without purchase, so he did it on merit and time served, and thus remains the question mark of the money for the Lake House. We thought maybe his first wife Sarah Horne may have had the money.

Pedrocut: Thanks for the info. I think the house that you mention in Pilkington avenue is the one I looked at on google satellite and it is still standing. It ironically has a circular drive and very much looks how I imagine the Lake House to have been. Don't know when it was built but perhaps the more modern as you mention may have been building that house in the image of the Lake House (I'm probably getting carried away now). I think you are on the right track though as the Lake House would have been old and the chance to make some money selling the land and the house to develop was probably a good option for Minnie May Randle. So you can see why I am on this crusade as all this means there must have been plans or drawings or something somewhere...thanks again
 

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ps Sorry I just spotted the file Pedrocut uploaded and yes that is the house I looked at on Google if go satellite again on it and go over head you can see the similarities of the drive
 
It might be I'm prepared to trying anything to get to the bottom of it. Do you know if they have online information as down here in Devon I am limited and appreciate the help that everyone is giving
 
Yes, Cardean17, I think that Sarah Horne is worth looking at. I've been trying to work out who Rebecca Turner was 'attached' to. Was she niece to Benjamin or Sarah or was it an enumerator's error and she was actually a 'nurse' to Sarah?

I definitely like Benjamin a lot more now that you have detailed his army history!

Another piece to add to the jigsaw - I called at the three houses this morning. Firstly, let me say how helpful the occupants were and at the first one I was told that they were tenants and so didn't know anything of the history but that the other two were owner-occupiers so may be able to help. Next door they were out but at the third house the family asked me in and told me as much as they knew. The father thought that the houses dated from 1937 or thereabouts. I hadn't prompted him with the date - he said he seemed to remember seeing it, maybe on the deeds. Also, there were two houses (first on the right in Lakehouse Road) which were built on the original gardens of these three properties but not until later. So there are three sets of dates to look at - 1. The three properties on Chester Road, 2. The houses in Lakehouse Road and the two later houses.
He seemed to remember that the builder's name was George and that he was maybe Greek.
His daughter (also very interested and helpful) said that she thought that the house had a 'name' so this may be worth looking for too.
We have exchanged email addresses and I have promised to keep them informed of our progress and my progress with this part of Boldmere as a whole.
I will try to get to see the occupants of the middle house as they may know a little more.
 
Hi Lady Penelope: You are doing amazingly well and I really do appreciate it. All the information you gathered about the three houses seems to back up everything I thought and that the house was there. Looking at the original maps I think the first house on the right in Lakehouse Road would be in the gardens/ land of the Lake House and thus in the gardens of the newer houses you visited.
I suppose it it possible that Sarah could have been a nurse but I would still bet she was the niece as I have checked on all the websites and they show her as niece. I will try and look into this a bit more. Just another fanciful thought, looking at the maps the house appears to have an outbuilding attached with land below, and as he was a cavalry officer I am wondering if it was a stable and he had his own horse/s there?

We haven't quite finished the will, however we now know that Benjamin left the house and land to Elizabeth his daughter in trust. So it would appear that the trustees made the decision to sell the estate once Rebecca Holloway (Turner) remarried. Initially Benjamin stated that the house was to be leased out for the best possible price within six months of him passing, and proceeds were to be passed to Rebecca and Elizabeth provided that Rebecca doesn't remarry or lead an immoral life. So as she marries again in 1886 three years later, and Elizabeth being only 10. we assume the trustees sold the property, hence one year later William Randle appearing in it. There is more to check however and I will keep you posted.

Dean
 
I don't think it is Lady P but Lady Sherlock!! I must say I like the idea of "nurse" - it bothered me that he married a niece. If Sarah was ill before she died it is likely she had a nurse.
 
Fascinated by the words 'or lead an immoral life'. Wonder how the trustees were going to judge or police that! Quite an unusual clause would you think?
It's quite possible that Benjamin would have had a horse. All the big houses on the Chester Road had coach houses the entrances to some of which can still be seen. I notice the absence of servants or a housekeeper, but maybe they had daily help. The train came to Boldmere in 1862 so access to both Lichfield and Birmingham would have been easy, plus the stations in between.
 
Rebecca is also listed as "assistant" on the 1871 census. At least, that is what I think it says. It would be interesting to know if she has an occupation on the marriage cert to Benjamin.
 
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