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Victoria Square - uncovering an old road

I have a theory that part of the old road may still exist, when the roadway was uncovered it was noted that the roadway in the direction of the Queen Victoria Statue came to a stop, (this I assume because of previous works ) but the road going in the opposite direction (towards the old Post Office) was still in place the general theory ( held by me and a fellow photographer) is that the road headed in the direction of Pinfold street and became a part of the same at some point this would mean that the road under the pavement is still in position? but the rest was lost when the built the Post Office (or before?)

I have no idea if this theory will ever be proved (or disproved) I did look at the work in Pinfold Street to see if there were any signs of the road but none was found, it may mean that the road ran a parallel course to the present Pinfold St this would mean that there will be next to nothing of the road still extant, but I still hold out hope that a part is still there next to the old Post Office any thoughts?
 
The Archivist did take photos of the road and we did see his little Red and White stick and this was used, when photographing the road It may appear in one of my photos (but not published on the web )


sospiri said:
A short section, maybe only a yard, would have sufficed to illustrate the construction, but we will have to make do with photographs, even though there were no overhead ones that were to scale as far as we know.

Maurice
Click to expand...
 
With the Centenary Square dig, I did assist with the history. That was a major site for uncovering the private canal basins and the Winfield Works. Pinfold Street is only a short section of road that formed a junction with others. In fact this junction became the top of New Street (80), Ann Street, Paradise Street and Pinfold Street. On the corner where this bit of road remained was No 1 Pinfold Street, the Coach & Horses
 
Looking at this old photo of The Coach & Horses, the top of Pinfold Street looks to be in a slightly different position back then to that of today.

City Pinfold St Coach & Horses Stores.JPG
 
Lyn

The map would have to be older before the Central Post Office was built in 1891, as the map being overlayed shows it as being built, but the photo I put up precedes that.
 
oops of course it would phil...my only excuse for the error is its down to the heat:D
 
It looks like there will be a concrete block? where the road was I would have preferred the road my self such is life
 
Shall copy references to the Coach & Horses to the Pinfold Street thread. A nice addition to that thread. Viv.
 
A thought did strike me in that they have now started to break up the road a bit further up from the uncovered roadway, I wonder what the possibility is that there may be another old road one can always hope, I await with interest to see the outcome
 
Thanks horesencart, good to see that you and others are keeping a watchful eye and making photographic records of these sites. As we've seen in just the last week, recent finds can so quickly disappear forever. Viv.
 
Just as a postscript, I attach a copy of the rate map. The Birmingham rate maps date from the 1860's and are useful to show house numbers. The stretch of road uncovered and now lost is on the part near the Coach & Horses and probably ended near the sewer shown:
Birmingham 4.jpg

Rate Map No 125
 
No difficulty finding that spot again then - uncovering it may be a little more difficult! :)

Maurice
 
sospiri said:
No difficulty finding that spot again then - uncovering it may be a little more difficult! :)

Maurice
Click to expand...

agreed maurice but on the plus side at least we have seen the old road and it has been documented and photographed...think thats the best we will get these days...tis a shame though that not even a few of the old cobbles were saved...

lyn
 
Agreed, Lyn, and at least we know that it was there as our members have seen it! I must say I never expected it to me much older, but the maps we have have been more or less verified. Stay cool! :)

Maurice
 
I did not look at the spoil heap ? today where the road was dumped, I must have a look tomorrow to see if it is still there? every now and again a lorry comes in to move any spoil heap , according to another photographer he says that a load of concrete was tipped onto the Spoil heap covering the old road,

Astoness said:
agreed maurice but on the plus side at least we have seen the old road and it has been documented and photographed...think thats the best we will get these days...tis a shame though that not even a few of the old cobbles were saved...

lyn
Click to expand...
 
Horsencart,

I think the chances of sorting any wheat from the chaff have now gone & I'm sure the archaeologists would have removed anything of real historical value. Time to move onto your next project! :)

Maurice
 
And that will be the demolition of the the former Market Hall, and work done on the new HS2 railway Station, following the progress of the building of the Tramway, following the progress of the building of the fountain just of Broad St (The Golden Boys will soon? be lifted into their new position), and in between taking photos of stuff that happens in Brum (and the Midlands) and of course some time in the future the aim/hope/wish is to take photos of Brum before during and after any changes, my photos go back to 1978, (and I am only 21 and a few months)



sospiri said:
Horsencart,

I think the chances of sorting any wheat from the chaff have now gone & I'm sure the archaeologists would have removed anything of real historical value. Time to move onto your next project! :)

Maurice
Click to expand...
 
As they say, yeah, yeah, yeah.....!!!!! :) :) :)

I know much better than that, even though you may not realise it!

But I look forward to seeing many more photographs from both you and Ell and oithers and seeing what they reveal of Brum of old.

Maurice :)
 
Looking at this old photo of the demoliDemolition of Christchurch.JPG tion old Christ Church makes me wonder if it was anything to do with it.
 
As you will know work on the Tramway continues at its own space, I did notice today that they are digging up the pavement outside the Post Office I would like to know how deep they are going to go because if you look at this photo between the Bucket of the machine and the sheet of steel this would have been the projected roadway (trust me on this) this then raises a number of questions are the going to dig in that area?, are they going to go deep enough?, and is the roadway still there? time will tell
https://flic.kr/p/QRv6Ra
 
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The good news that it appears a part of the old roadway still in the ground the bad news is It may not last for much longer, I have taken a number of photos of the roadway? in this photo you will see a yellow pipe it is sitting on the old roadway I suspect that when they laid the pipe rathe than dig up the road they set the pipe down on the roadway, to the right of the photo you will see an old power cable this appears to be over more of the old roadway, part of the problem is that they are using a big lorry with a very large vacuum to move the earth so much of the old roadway has been vacuumed I do not know, here is the photo and more will appear as soon as I edit them
https://flic.kr/p/2dmGJBP
 
thanks for the update horsencart...very interesting..what with all the work going on in the city i suspect that there will be more surprises to uncover

lyn
 
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