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Pavements and walkways

dennis

master brummie
I was having a conversation this evening
with my son,and he seems to think that he has
somewhere in B'ham,saw iron curbstones,
does anyone know of such things? myself,
I don't remember seeing any, but that don't prove anything
I wonder if he is getting mixed up with the tram lines???
 
Dennis, I think there were some Iron kerbstones in Digbeth, I think they were mainly on corners as vehicles kept "clipping" the concrete kerbs and breaking them. O0
 
Dennis, have you been to the Black Country Museum ? if not it tells the story of the Iron kerbstones and you can go inside  the house that is made of cast iron panels. Wonderful place you can even see the 3 links from the Titanic anchor chain that were taken off to test but when the Titanic sank were thrown to one side. All made in the Black Country
I have a photo somewere of a lady from the USA sitting on the Three links from the Titanic who was a friend who I took there.
Walking up to the Old Fairground the road on each side has got the wrought iron kerbstones
And a little bit of addiional info anyone over 60 gets to go in free for a year after they go in once
Which is well worth it
 
HI CROMWELL, YOU ARE RIGHT WE DID HAVE IRON CURB STONE,S THEY WAS USED AROND ASTON , IN THE 194O, TO THE EARLY 195O,S BY MID FIFTY,S THEY CHANGED I CAN REMEMBER THEM WHEN I WAS A LITTLE WIPPER/ SNAPPER,;; LIVING AT 5/92 LICHFIELD ROAD, JUST AFTER THE WAR , MY UNCLE BILL USED TO BE A CURB LATER FOR THE CORPERATION THEN AS WELL , FOR MANY YEARS, BEFORE HE GOT MARRIED TO MY AUNT MAURD IN WHITE HOUSE STREET ASTON,,INCIDENTLY CROMWELL,;;;CAN YOU TELL ME ,HIS FLOWER GIRL STILL AROUND,,I HAVEN,T SEEN OR HEARD FROM HER ON SITE SINCE LAST YEAR, BEST WISHES ASTONIAN ,;; PS , KEEP THE GOOD WORK UP ;;;
 
There is a spiral walkway Suffolk Queensway/Holliday st and also one in Aston/Heatlands (can anyone pinpoint the road for me?)
So are there any other spiral walkways in Brum?
 
You must be thinking of the pedestrian access at the beginning of the A38M / Jct Lichfield Road just below the matalan island that allows pedestrians to come out behind the polics motor vehicle depot corner Rocky lane / Lichfiled Rd.

The other you mention is outside what was Stanier House, the former Railway Offices Holliday St / Queensway.
 
Spiral walkways is a brilliant idea.
A fine sense of occasion.
Is it not astounding the billions spent on building and zilch.
Along of course with murals.
Such an immiserate paucity.
Yet more billions spent on formal disciplined training in further-higher education.
 
Petrified kidney pavements


These were pavements made up of cobbles shaped like kidneys, usually replacing old dirt walkways. The 1899 photo below shows the last of this type of pavement at the corner of Livery and Water Streets. They were not popular.


In a "Ramble Round Old Birmingham" (George A Selgin) we're told the kidney-shaped (or egg- shaped) cobbles were very unpopular in the Town as they made walking particularly uncomfortable. The book also tells us that, around St. Philip's churchyard, we should : "Look down and you'll notice we're standing on cement flags - a small experimental patch only to be sure, but one that bodes well for the eventual wholesale disappearance of those lousy petrified kidneys "


Even The Metropolitan in 1837 (volume 18, page 82) was damning about Birmingham's pavements as "a town abhorred by those afflicted with corns, for the streets are paved with petrified kidneys"


And not much progress had been made by 1853 with the kidneys still proving to be a town headache. The Birmingham Post of 5/10/1853 printed a letter from 'W. L' of Great Colmore Street expressing concern about the slow progress of replacing petrified kidney pavements with blue bricks - or 'Rowley Rags'. (extracted from the 'Birmingham Post 150 year ago thread' see post #1066 here https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=39848&page=72).

Viv
 

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Viv
I have saved an extract from a post on this forum with memories of Ansells Brewery (though have not got a link) which says:

The cellars in Ansells brewery,were used as an hospital during the war,air raid shelters were split up all over the place (mine was in Victoria Rd the house is still there),one direct hit on a large air raid shelter (Avenue Rd.I think)resulted in 50 deaths.
Portland St.was left cobbled longer than other streets,because the drays used to queue there before loading up in the brewery,and they could keep their footing better on the cobbles,also, Portland St.is the 2nd.steepest street in Brum.

Not sure if he was referring to Portland or Upper Portland St (or both)
 
I have just remembered a cobbled pavement in place today, but am not sure if it was always cobbled and has been retained (and possibly relaid), or was perhaps put in for effect. It is in Clement St in front of the building featured in the WDYTYA program on Martin Shaw's ancestors.

clement_st_cobbles.jpg
 
I remember the programme Mike. As I recall, the cobbles inside the courtyard seemed as originally laid to me. But not sure about the ones outside. These are all likely to disappear fast if health and safety regs are applied. Compensation claims could make them a thing of the past.


These glass bricks letting light into cellars always interested me. Many are still around today but they often have broken glass panes and patched up. Viv..




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Lots of cobbles in Lionel Street, mostly laid to cross pavements to dropped kerbs for vehicle access. One photo shows cobbles overlaid with Tarmac which has worn away. No idea whether these cobbles are quite old or modern replacements. But how do you tell? Viv.
 

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Frequently pavements and pathways were laid with tiles/pavers from locally produced clays. The south west has many surviving examples, usually a cream/yellowish colour which is about four inches square.
Cobbles are very durable and were the feature of many roads and driveways particularly dating from the days of horse-drawn carts which usually had metal tyres on the wooden wheels. Vivienne mentions the tarmac overlay which has worn away. Tarmac cannot withstand too much heavy wear especially where vehicles turn or brake. We are all to familiar with road potholes! :eek: Most cobbles I think are old ones, I remember the hill in the Bull Ring leading up to High Street having cobbles and could be a real problem for traffic when wet, but there are many places in the UK where 'heritage' areas have had new or replacement cobbles laid.
There are many pics here and elsewhere which show cobbles laid either side and between tramway tracks. I have always believed this was for easy maintenance and sound track stability. Maybe someone has another answer?
The other highly durable brick was the industrial blue. This was often used on corners of gateways where carts etc. were likely to scrape the corners; they were less susceptible to breakage than the more customary red clay bricks. There were also the industrial blue paving tiles, some with a surface design others simply plain. These were often found in busy domestic back yards, industrial premises yards and many railway platforms. I guess there are lots of these tiles still beneath recent applications of tarmac. I
 
One of my ancestors came to Birmingham from Buckinghamshire, on the census he's called a "paviour"!
It must have been hard work.
When my mother had new garden path we brought the old "blue-bricks" here to re-lay. I was born in that house so it's nice to have them!
My husband was telling me he saw a horse and cart slide on wet cobbles in the Bull Ring.
rosie.
 
Hi ROSIE
That was a regular thing with the horses on those blue bricks, in the old days
Especialy with the old big shire horses of Ansells brewery
and it was always on the upper portland street which was a steep hill when the wagon drivers used to fetch there horse down
From vicarage road stables they would walk them down to the back yard entrance of the brewery with all there rosssettes on and
there brass wares on them it was the same when walking back up the hill back to the stables at the end of there shift
It was bad for them in the winter months with rain and snow very deep indeed
as a little kid i used to follow them up and down to the stables
more often than not when they fetched themfrom the stables when they came out of the the stables onto vicarage road
they would mount by the care takers garden wall and the care taker and his wife would give them a peice of bread
then the driver would walk them down portland street to the brewery gates some times they would walk across the road to lower
portland street and which was at the top of wainwright street aston across from the brewery gates
to the water troth and give them water before loading up with the barralls and crates of beers to be delivered
i would wait for them they was beatiful huge shire horse to look at
have a nice day rosie ,, best wishes Alan,, Astonian,,,,
 
I remember the programme Mike. As I recall, the cobbles inside the courtyard seemed as originally laid to me. But not sure about the ones outside. These are all likely to disappear fast if health and safety regs are applied. Compensation claims could make them a thing of the past.


These glass bricks letting light into cellars always interested me. Many are still around today but they often have broken glass panes and patched up. Viv..




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ot. glass bricks. that reminded me of the carry on film. mr dan dan looking up and watching some one walking over them, saying he recognised them
 
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