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Pubs Of The Past

  • Thread starter Thread starter Stitcher
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Does anyone know what happening at the Bagot Arms on the Chester Road? The perimeter of the site is boarded up as one would expect if being demolished. Maybe another block of retirement homes/care home/apartments or.................?
 
Curly said:
Does anyone know what happening at the Bagot Arms on the Chester Road? The perimeter of the site is boarded up as one would expect if being demolished. Maybe another block of retirement homes/care home/apartments or.................?
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Well we started using it at 17, so if it is going to run as a retirement home...dual purpose, could finish up there (Now you'll tell me the pub part wont be operating)
Bob
 
Williamstreeter said:
SolC Welcome I can well understand the reasoning about Lillie not being able to take the pub over, years ago women could not take on HP . I know that only too well from experience , my mother tried to enter into a HP agreement with Civic Radio on Easy Row for my first record player in the 60's she had a terrible job, namely because my parents were separated . Also a very close friend of some years ago ran a pub on Holloway Head due to marital strife he had to leave that pub , he applied for another public house not far away , was refused because of no female relative, he had to get his mother involved with a new licence and got the pub . It became a very successful enterprise , so I presume they were partners in a roundabout way
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Makes one appreciate how lucky we are that it's so easy to do these things these days - especially as a woman!
 
Phil said:
SolC

According to Kelly's trade directory the last licensee for the Beer Retailer (I don't think it was ever a fully licenced pub) was Lilly Freeman in 1909 (listed in 1910). It was at 91 Bradford Street and if they haven't changed the numbering that would have put it between Alcester Street and Lombard Street. After closing as a beer house it became a Fruiterer (whatever that was) run by a Mr William Lodge. In fact if I have the right location I think in the mid 60's it became a hairdressers shop owner by a mate of mine.
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Hi Phil

Thank you so much for this info! (I have so much love for this page.) How interesting that it listed Lilly as the licensee - I wonder why it closed? When you say it wasn't a fully licensed pub, what does this mean please? Would it have just been an off-licence? Or were they only allowed to sell beer and not wine/spirits?

What IS a fruiterer? :confused: Also, you friend doesn't have photos of the building does he/she?

Thanks, again, so much for this!
 
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Not a fully licenced pub meant that it was originally licenced only to sell beer and cider on the premises. I understand that on occasion they could ask for an additional licence for other items, but most did not. From my experience of Kellys, fruiterer and greengrocer were often used somewhat indiscriminately, fruiterer sounding more posh. Often the same shop could be described as either at different times.
With regard to the end of the pub, the cuttings below show that the licence was not renewed. This was the result of the deliberate thinning out of pubs that was occurring in the late 1900s and up to the end of WW1, referred to in one cutting as the 1904 Act. Interestingly it does list compensation which was to be paid (£1401) to someone for loss of the licence. Who this was would depend on who actually owned the pub. It would seem from the same cutting that the closure would have been in the last week in december 1909.

birm Gazette.1.3.1909. redundant pubs.jpgBirm Gazette.12.11.1909. redundant pubs.jpg
 
Mike

Can you work out where exactly the pub was because I have an idea I might have a photo of the place if indeed it was the premises that my mate turned unto a mens hairdressers in the mid 60's. The photo is before he converted it and looks to be in the 1950's.

If I am right that's the shop on the left of the bus as we look at it.

Camp Hill Bradford Street from City [1].JPG
 
Phil. Iliffe & sons were 89 & 90 Bradford St in the 1955 Kellys, as shown on the c1950 map. I suspect that your mates place was no 90, and 91 had gone by then. This would seem to agree with the c1889 map, where I have marked no 91 in red.

map c 1889 showing position of 91 Bradford St.jpgmap c 1950 showing 89-90 Bradford st.jpg
 
Mike that looks right to me, well at least I was in the general area. Whenever I try to locate anywhere I seem to fall foul of renumbering. I looked at it and I thought that the methodist chapel was number 91, so I gave up thinking possibly there had been a renumbering at sometime. Do they not number churches?
 
I believe the date proposed by Phil, in post# 1423 is more, or less, spot on. The car and van seem to be of the era. The buses are all post war except CVP 160, but the newest bus (second in line) could be a 1952/3 model. The bus CVP 160 (1060) is a 1937 vehicle but was renovated in 1948. It was one of 40 pre-WW2 buses taken out of storage and put back into service in the late 1950's and withdrawn in 1960. It is on the Moseley Road route which replaced trams in October 1949.
 
Looking at the 1950 map, post #1424, it drew my attention to the many manufacturing premises that there once were to be found in Birmingham. I have noticed this before, in the many maps that grace the pages of BHF, but enlisted little relevance - other than the places marked which answered a posters enquiry.
However, I decided to list them, as shown on the map.
Works for filing systems, basket ware,metal and metal finishing, plating, printing, joinery, hairgrips; there was also a brass foundry (which seems to have covered a large area), a food products and two warehouses. A ruin is mentioned and The Spotted Dog Pub. A search, here, did not reveal the pub.
This seems to be the place, somewhere not demolished.
http://www.spotteddog.co.uk/
 
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mikejee said:
Not a fully licenced pub meant that it was originally licenced only to sell beer and cider on the premises. I understand that on occasion they could ask for an additional licence for other items, but most did not. From my experience of Kellys, fruiterer and greengrocer were often used somewhat indiscriminately, fruiterer sounding more posh. Often the same shop could be described as either at different times.
With regard to the end of the pub, the cuttings below show that the licence was not renewed. This was the result of the deliberate thinning out of pubs that was occurring in the late 1900s and up to the end of WW1, referred to in one cutting as the 1904 Act. Interestingly it does list compensation which was to be paid (£1401) to someone for loss of the licence. Who this was would depend on who actually owned the pub. It would seem from the same cutting that the closure would have been in the last week in december 1909.

View attachment 128843View attachment 128844
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Wow! Thanks (again) so much for this Mike. This has definitely helped with my research!
 
mikejee said:
Phil. Iliffe & sons were 89 & 90 Bradford St in the 1955 Kellys, as shown on the c1950 map. I suspect that your mates place was no 90, and 91 had gone by then. This would seem to agree with the c1889 map, where I have marked no 91 in red.

View attachment 128857View attachment 128858
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Hi Mike

I've only just seen this! This is awesome! Would you be able to point out 22 Bradford Street on a map like this at all?

Thanks

Solanche
 
Only approximately. The map below is from c1889 . The blue line in front of the buildings shows the position of nos 21-26. Therefore no 22 would be approximately in the position of the red blob

map c 1889 showing position of 22 bradford st.jpg
 
Good Evening, I am looking for any photos of the Green Man pub in Deritend. I believe it was near St Johns Church. My family worked from a yard behind there and I can't seem to find any photo's of that side of the road, more or less opposite Gibb Street. Any information and/or photos of that particular area gratefully appreciated folks!
TIA

Deb
 
It was not that close to St Johns, and not really opposite Gibb St. Anyway here is a map c 1889 showing The Green Man.
map c 1889 showing green man in deritend.jpg
 
Thanks mikejee, I see what you mean about its location. Do you or anyone reading this happen to have any photographs of that side of the street, there never seems to be any when I have looked. I have seen one that shows some shops just by the recess off the street (to the left of the Green Man) but never any further up, here's hoping.
Deb
 
The Bagot Arms seen behind hoardings near Pype Hayes Park and Tyburn. Apparently it will become a Bar & Grill soon.

From Chester Road.





From Tyburn Road.

 
thanks ell...judging by the speed they build todays buildings the new bar and grill should be open by next week..:rolleyes:

lyn
 
Not sure about that, or how long the hoardings were up. Don't recall seeing them last month when I last went to Pype Hayes Park. Don't know the area well. Wonder if it would like one of those Buffet restaurants?
 
ell i was being a tad sarcastic about the time it will take to rebuild and open lol.....very good chance it will be a buffet restaurant but begs the question if it could not survive as a food serving pub what makes them think a similar place will...beats me but we shall see

lyn
 
Stitcher said:
View attachment 61831
No. one is The Unicorn on the corner of Holloway Head and Speaking Stile Walk. 1964.


lk.jpeg


No. two is The Roebuck on the corner of St. Martin's St. and William St. 1965.


jh~1.jpeg



No. three is The Shakesperian on the corner of Great Colmore St. and Cregoe St. 1965.
ll.jpeg
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The Roebuck what a stunning building
 
Andy from Panks said:
The Roebuck what a stunning building
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I remember both pub 1 and pub 2 from when I lived in William St , if for any reason the chippies in both William St and Bishopsgate St were closed we used the one in St Martins St . the first two chippies the proprietors were brothers albeit trading separately . So we had to walk past The Roebuck
 
Stitcher said:
ss~2.jpeg


This is the corner of Granville Street and Broad Street and the pub is called 'The Granville'. It was built in 1923, more recently the pub was re-named as 'The Westward Ho!' but in later years it reverted back to The Granville.View attachment 62573



de.jpeg


This is another shot of The Granville in 1964.
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Great views, The Granville was opposite Bush House which lay back from Broad St and was the Housing Dept. offices.
 
Nico

Since the crest on the Bagot pub sign is the same as that of the Bagot family of Staffordshire who came to England in 1066 with the Norman Conquest I would say that there is a good chance it was named after them. Though what the local connection would be I have no idea.
 
Nico

I was just reading this about Pype Hayes Hall which explains the connection I was looking for.

"The late owner of the house was Sir Walter Bagot who was elected as an M.P and whose grandson was to become the first Lord Bagot. The family were also to embrace clerical connections when the Rev Walter Bagot became the house owner. He was the intimate friend of the poet William Cowper, who had written extensively to the clergyman, Robert Southsay, the writer, and came to stay at the house in order to study and record Cowpers Letters when he was writing a Biography of the celebrated English poet. The Bagots stayed at The Hall until 1908 when it was sold to James Rollason a local manufacturer who lived there until 1919. In that year it was sold to Birmingham Corporation who converted it into a Convalescent Home, and the grounds into a Public Park. Until the late 1980's Pype Hayes Hall held the distinction of being the oldest lived in house in Erdington".
 
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