Newspapers : From Birmingham Post 150 years ago

[Vivienne14]

Very interesting account of wakes and ales. Didn't realise that was where the word 'Ales' came form. Apart from moves to stop what could often turn into a raucous few days, more modern controls such as the school curriculum put a final end to Wakes Weeks (as well as the decline in manufacturing of course). Paid holidays would have been a welcome outcome though.

Risky bus journeys is an interesting one too. No control at this point over routes etc so dangerous driving to capture the customers before the competition must have been common. Viv.

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[mikejee]

The writer of the contribution on wakes has a piece in wikipedia which is quite interesting ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Toulmin_Smith ). His book on English Guilds, including the Holy cross, Lenches and St John in birmingham ) is a free pdf at https://socserv2.socsci.mcmaster.ca/econ/ugcm/3ll3/smithtoulmin/EnglishGilds.pdf. I assume, from the fact that he is writing to the Birmingham Post, that he returned to Birmingham at some point, though this might not necessarily be so.

 

[Vivienne14]

Thanks Mike. You do wonder what Toulmin Smith would have made of today's highly centralised government. The Gilds book is very, very thorough! Hadn't really appreciated the extent of a Gilds activities. And as well as being a religious, craft or social support system for communities, it's interesting how they seem to have carried out the similar role which later municipal corporations took on. Looks like some of the principles for local government came from them. The problem we've inherited however, is the power of local governments over its communities. Doesn't always work for the best and inevitably brings politics too much into play. Viv.


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[mikejee]

30.9.1864
A description of the Onion Fair, which then was held by St Martins

 

[paul stacey]

A very interesting piece Mike, a great description of a fair, seemingly hardly changed since the medieval period, except for some modern innovations, also it must have been one of the very earliest miners strikes ever mentioned. I thought at this time before general emancipation it was illegal to strike, or have any type of union recognition. Paul

 

[mikejee]

There was a lot in the papers at the time about the strike paul. , and it became quite violent at times, devices with gunpowder being used on at least ones "scab's" house.It caused a lot of arguement, though I havene't read much of the pieces on it

 

[paul stacey]

Thanks Mike, thats very interesting, I will try to find something on line that goes into more detail. Paul

 

[mikejee]

1.10.1864
Fires at Dale end and Holloway head

 

[Vivienne14]

Anyone know why these articles name the insurance company? Seen it several times before and wondering if there's a reason for it? Viv.


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[DavidGrain]

Viv, At that time the fire brigades were operated by the insurance companies, each company having its own fire engine and fire fighters. Although at the time we are reading about I think we have had newspaper cuttings about the setting up of a Birmingham fire brigade run by the police.

 

[Vivienne14]

Thanks David. Didn't realise the insurance co's had their own fire services. I'd wrongly assumed they were set up independently. Just found this quote from Showells Dictionary on the Birmingham Conservation a Trust site:

“insurance agents offices are so thick on the ground round Bennet’s Hill and Colmore Row, that it has been seriously suggested the latter thoroughfare should he rechristened and be called Insurance Street. It was an agent who had the assurance to propose the change!”

This is a nice piece written about insurance/fire services. What's very surprising is premiums could cost from £2/6d pa to £100 (!!!) pa. Big business.

https://www.birminghamconservationt...early-beginnings-of-birminghams-fire-service/


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[mikejee]

That's what I have understood as well, but have been a bit surprised in several cases to see that it was reported that several company's engines went to the blaze, and I think I remember once seeing that two of them collided on the way. So there must have been some cooperation between the companies.

 

[brummie nick]

Insurance companies issued plaques to be put on the premises to show that you were insured.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fire_insurance_mark

 

[Vivienne14]

So if you didn't have a plaque/insurance who put the fire out?

Viv.


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[mikejee]

3.10,1864

Largest ballroom in the provinces in Heneage St. where would this have been ?
Materials from old Cornish's shop for sale -they didn't waste materials then, and wouldn't think of building a building, only anticipating it would last 40 years at most
Farm St might then have been on the edge of the country, but doesn't sound like it was very idyllic to live there.

 

[Astoness]

crikey mike i wouldnt have imagined a large ballroom in heneage st...i have my 3x gt grandfather in that st from at least 1838 to the 1860s...its in nechells...

thanks mike

lyn

 

[mikejee]

I didn't know Heneage st personally Lyn, but from pictures etc I was surprised also

 

[Astoness]

I didn't know Heneage st personally Lyn, but from pictures etc I was surprised also

same here mike i only know of heneage st through family history...wonder where abouts in the street the ballroom was..ive looked at my map and it was a fair size street by the looks of it..later on i will see if i can find anymore snippets about it...

lyn

 

[Old Boy]

Hi All,

My wifes great uncle John Prout lived in Heneage Street until his death in the 1970s. We visited him many times but I cannot remember anywhere which might have been the site of an old ballroom. I feel that it must have been demolished and the site built on sometime in the 19th century.

Old Boy

 

[Astoness]

Hi All,

My wifes great uncle John Prout lived in Heneage Street until his death in the 1970s. We visited him many times but I cannot remember anywhere which might have been the site of an old ballroom. I feel that it must have been demolished and the site built on sometime in the 19th century.

Old Boy

hi old boy...i tend to agree with you...i really dont know why i found it strange that there would be such a building in heneage st...i just did...forgot to say i also had a rellie there in the 1950s

all the best

lyn

 

[mikejee]

4.10.1864
A few days ago Paul commented on the reports of a miners strike. This report may give him some more information on the dispute,
Sounds like its not just today that people were forecasting the collapse of the medical system .

 

[paul stacey]

Again very interesting news items Mike, it shows that even hospitals using donated charity money had there problems, and also there were unions before general emancipation, which I was't aware of, two very enlightening stories. Paul

 

[Astoness]

i agree paul...these snippets that mike very kindly puts up give us such a great insight into history of bygone years...think i have found out more from these than the books i have read..

lyn

 

[Wendy]

I agree Lyn I love reading these snippets they tell the real story. Thanks Mike.

 

[mikejee]

6.10.1864

Seems like there were people like the BHF even then, interested in old buildings
Birmingham Fairs.

 

[paul stacey]

I find it so interesting to see that even in the mid 19th C, people were interested in, and concerned about their local historic environment and cultural history.Paul

 

[Astonian]

Hi mike and paul
Its very surprising how many people are interested in old building and the history of these property's in our case ,here in Worcestershire
We have loads of historic building with there dates above the building and they are still operational today with well known
Company,s word, is full of history if you come to word you would see scores of people being taken around our streets every day and all day
Different parties of people and the historians strolling along with them stopping at every one and giving the load down of history
We have more than the streets of London ,believe me the place of word, is chopa block with tourists
Its a fantascic place to live even thou I work and run a business in brum,I most certainly would not come back to live that's for sure
I think brum as lost most of its historic building for glass building of offices and is slowly becoming american style

All pubs will banish I wish our friends on the forum with the best of luck with there venture of Aston taveren
Just one of our remaining full of history pub which I will most certainly be visiting when up and running
Best wishes to every one Astonian,,,,,

 

[paul stacey]

Nice to from you Alan. Paul

 

[mikejee]

7.10.1864

Serious explosion at General hospital caused by hunting for a suspected gas leak with a lighted candle !
People have always complained about train punctuality, but this chap does really seem to have a particularly good case.

 

[mikejee]

8.10.1864
Sounds like churches in some areas then practised something a bit like Sharia law.