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Midland Red Early Days

I used to ride those old West Brom busses from Snow Hill to Handswrth every week day. Although they were old and beat up in the early fifties they could really move and the drivers just seemed to want to get out of Brum as fast as possible. Although there were other Birmingham busses that also could have been taken from the front of Snow Hill we always jumped on the West Broms when one was there. Jumped was the operative word...they did not hang around.
I always thought that they were old Birmingham Daimlers repainted but apparently not the case...they were just old at that point.
 
Here is a Flickr slide show of excellent pictures (by Gary S Crutchley) of the Black Country Living Museum. It's wonderful for me, as I am unable to visit. I hope others will also find it interesting. :)

[As a sweetener, Midland Red D9 5342 is featured!]
 
That show certainly gives the flavour of the Museum. Incidentally, the switchboard with a packet of woodbines lodged between two switches is on Derby trolleybus 237, the owner (a member of the transport group) said he remembers seeing such items when the trolleys were in service in Derby!
 
On the subject of horses being electrocuted by the Lorain tramway system of Wolverhampton, Pete Baggett has this to say:

"There are several tales of horses being electrocuted by live studs, but on investigation none have actually proved to be true. However it is known that the Corporation did pay compensation to the Great Western Railway. All these tales come from a single incident where a horse dropped dead in Piper's Row on 24 May 1902, but it was not that uncommon for horses to drop dead in the street, as they tended to be very badly overworked."

Also from Pete Baggett, here are the start and end dates of the Midlands trolleybus systems:

Birmingham: 27 November 1922 - 30 June 1951.
Derby: 9 January 1932 - 9 September 1967.
Nottingham: 10 April 1927 - 30 June 1966.
Notts and Derby: 7 January 1932 - 25 April 1953.
Walsall: 22 July 1931 - 3 October 1970.
Wolverhampton: 29 October 1923 - 5 March 1967.
 
Lloyd said:
... the switchboard with a packet of woodbines lodged between two switches is on Derby trolleybus 237, the owner (a member of the transport group) said he remembers seeing such items when the trolleys were in service in Derby!
Click to expand...

A nice authentic touch! The Black Country Living Museum must be very costly to keep running. Though they seem to be quite expert at securing grants, etc.
 
On the subject of Walsall, here is a fine picture of ex-Midland Red 4995 (reg 2995HA 1962 BMMO D9 with Carlyle H40/32RD body withdrawn 1973) on service 118 to Walsall via Great Barr. It is "seen at Walsall in August 1973 after acquisition by WMPTE", and is indeed wearing "West Midlands" fleetname transfers, though still in red livery. Actually, August 1973 sounds a little early: the WMPTE transfer occurred on 3 December 1973. This handsome all-MR bus was withdrawn by WMPTE in January 1976 and was sold to Bird (Stratford-upon-Avon) for scrap in March of that year.
 
You are right there Thylacine, the 118 was still in Midland Red hands until 3/12/1973. Operated by Sheepcote Street garage( with odd peak workings by Digbeth Garage during the 1960's).
 
I've made a major correction and addition to post #298 on the Heaton steam carriage. Please note that the picture attached to that post is NOT of the Heaton carriage.
 
William Henry James's Steam Carriages (1824-1832).

[Steam is leaking into the MRED thread again. Perhaps someone should call a plumber! ;)]

[The mention in the new post #298 of "Mr James" as the source of some of the design features of the Heaton steam carriage, has led to the discovery of yet another Birmingham steam carriage pioneer:]

Mr William Henry James of Birmingham, "a gentleman of superior mechanical talents", patented on 15 May 1824 "an improved method of constructing steam carriages", in which the rear wheels were driven independently, a faciltiy which was employed to aid in steering. James also specified a "four wheel drive" option for use "upon roads having steep ascents". On 5 March 1825 he patented a tubular boiler which was "decidedly the most effective machine of its kind". In about 1827 James "commenced the construction of steam carriages", but was limited by a shortage of funds. On 5 March 1829 "some friends" (of Luke Hebert) assisted at a trial of the "James Mark 1" steam carriage, which carried 15 passengers at speeds of 12-15 mph over a "rough-gravelled road" in Epping Forest. The trial was marred by the failure of one of the twin boilers. In November 1829 the "James Mark 2" steam carriage (actually a "steam drag" designed to tow a second carriage) was trialled. "This carriage was only taken out of the yard (where it was built) three times: on one of these occasions the writer [Hebert] accompanied it three miles, which it performed in twelve minutes; after which a joint of the induction pipe failed ...; this accident, of course, soon brought the carriage to a stop. Every person who witnessed this experiment was perfectly convinced of the feasibility of the scheme, and that nothing was wanting but a little more experience in discovering and remedying the weak points, which practice alone could effect." Shortage of funds and support appear to have curtailed Mr James’s steam carriage venture. On 15 August 1832 James patented a high-pressure boiler which featured a "heart-pump".

[Based on Hebert 1836, which contains three figures (reproduced below) and much additional technical detail. The first two pictures form part of James's 1824 patent. The third is of the "James Mark 2" steam carriage of 1829, which has an uncanny resemblance to the primaeval omnibus (fourth picture) that George Shillibeer introduced in London that very year! It would be nice to know more about William Henry James of Birmingham. HELP PLEASE! :). Note added: William Henry James (March 1796 - 16 December1873) has his own page at Graces Guide, which also has the "full monte" of the Hebert article (so I've re-invented the wheel!). In fact, the excellent Graces Guide website has the entire "Railways" article from Luke Hebert's Engineers' & Mechanics' Encyclopaedia (1839 edition): it is divided into topics and fully indexed. Clearly there's much of interest to the railway enthusiast, but many steam road carriage pioneers are included: Church, Dance, Field, Gurney, Hancock, Heaton, James, Macerone, Ogle, Squire, Summers, Trevithick.]
 
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The "Church" Controversy 1833.

[Note added: since making this original post I have discovered an e-book of the magazine in which the "Impartial" letter first appeared. It was Mechanics' Magazine Museum Registry Journal and Gazette (MMMRJG, No 533, 26 October 1833). It turns out that this letter was the first in a remarkable series of letters to MMMRJG on the subject of the "Church" steam carriage. I have added those letters to this post for interested readers to have them all together. I hope readers agree that though our friend Dr William Church comes in for some quite vitriolic crtiicism, the whole series of letters provides a fascinating insight into the British "Steam Scene" of the 1830s. Letter all transcribed and posted 12 July 2010: it's in a small font because it's so big.]

Letter 1. MMMRJG (No 533, 26 October 1833).

Dr Church's Steam Carriage.

Sir, — I have observed a great deal said in your valuable Journal, of late, about the steam carriage of the Messrs Heaton Brothers of this place; but never a single word about that of Dr Church, also of this town, though it is not only of much older date, but, in the opinion of good judges, offers as fair a promise as any of accomplishing the important object in view, namely, that of substituting steam for horse-power on common roads. In the able article on "Inland Transport", in the Edinburgh Review, said to have been written by Dr Lardner, Dr Church's carriage is spoken of as one of the likeliest to be attended with success. Feeling persuaded that you can have no wish but to make the claims of every competitor in this arduous field of mechanical discovery equally known to your numerous readers, and attributing, therefore, to accident entirely, your past neglect of those of Dr Church, I forward with this a drawing of his engine, in the hope that it may be favored with an early place in your pages, along with the following explanatory particulars. The drawing, I should observe, is a reduced copy from a very handsome engraving, recently published here by an artist of the name of Lane.

In the cases of Gurney, Heaton Brothers, and also, I believe, Sir Charles Dance, there is one carriage to carry the engine, and another the passengers. These locomotive machines, in short, are drags, merely meant to be used in the same way as Jonathan Hall in the infancy of steam navigation proposed to use steam tugs. Dr Church, on the contrary, has but one carriage for both machinery and passengers. The one represented in the drawing is built to carry fifty passengers. The wheels are about six inches broad in the tire and eight feet in diameter.

The crank shaft, worked by the cylinders, is connected by endless chains with the axles of the hind wheels of the carriage, and each wheel has a separate axle. The spokes of the wheels are so constructed as to operate like springs to the whole machine — that is, to give and take according to the inequalities of the road. The boiler consists of a series of double tubes, one within the other, placed in a vertical position around a circular fire-place, and communicating with it; the heated air passes through these tubes, which are every where surrounded with water. The tubes are in the form of syphons, to counteract the injurious effects of unequal expansion. The draught is produced by a fanner worked by the engine, and the furnace is made to consume its own smoke.

In conclusion, I have only to add, that, if there be anything to boast of in the patronage and support of a public company, Dr Church has more to say for himself in this respect than the Messrs Heaton; for whereas they have but very late issued proposals for such a company, while it is a considerable time since a company was actually formed for the purpose of working Dr Church’s carriages, not only on the road between London and Birmingham, but between Birmingham, Manchester, and Liverpool.

I remain, sir, your obedient servant,
Impartial.
Birmingham, 3 October 1833.

Letter 2. MMMRJG (No 534, 2 November 1833).

Interim Notices.

Dr Church's Steam Carriage. Sir, — Your correspondent "Impartial" states that the "very handsome engraving of Dr Church's steam-carriage is published by an artist of the name of Lane". — It should be "Allen". Your inserting this correction will much oblige, yours, very
repectfully, J Collins for Josiah Allen. — Birmingham, 28 October 1833.

Letter 3. MMMRJG (No 535, 9 November 1833).

Steamers versus Schemers.
"Save me from my Friends"

Sir. — I read with much surprise the letter in your Magazine, bearing the inappropriate signature of "Impartial", complaining of the neglect which Dr Church has experienced at our hands. I was surprised at the whole tenor of the communication, but particularly at the superficial and inaccurate statements which it contains. "Impartial" appears to be very partial to Dr Church, and exceedingly jealous of the triumphant success of Messrs Heaton Brothers; he complains that so much has been said about their steam carriage, but never a word about Dr Church's. I answer this complaint by admitting that a good deal has been said about Messrs Heaton Brothers, and justly, since they have done considerably more as yet than any of their competitors. Dr Church has done nothing — and therefore nothing has been said about him.

The strongest argument that "Impartial" seems able to bring forward in behalf of Dr Church, is the opinion of the writer of that unfortunate article on "Inland Transport", which appeared some time since in the Edinburgh Review, "who considered it one of the likeliest to be attended with success". Up to this time, however, the facts have by no means borne out the writer's friendly opinion, and such being the case, reference to it is extremely unfortunate. I shall not comment upon "the opinion of good judges", till their goodness is satisfactorily proved; for they may be good judges of horse-flesh, and yet know very little about steam coaches. Can "Impartial" tell us candidly, how many steamers Dr Church has constructed that have proved failures, and have been laid aside for more likely ones? Will he also please to say, how much the one now in hand resembles the handsome engraving by Mr Allen.

On reference to this engraving — and yours is a fair copy — it will at once be seen, that "Impartial" is sadly out in his description of the wheels, which are not there shown to be eight feet high, or else they are very much wider in the tire [sic] than six inches! They were at first rollers. Perhaps "Impartial" will inform us whether Dr Church has not altogether given up the use of rollers, and adopted the more rational form of a wheel; also, if he has not at length discovered, what a very small portion of mechanical knowledge would have told him long since, that wheels constructed "with spokes to operate like springs", though very pretty in theory, are not quite the thing in practice.

"Impartial" winds up his extraordinary communication by saying — "that if there be anything to boast of in the patronage and support of a public company, Dr Church has more to say for himself, in this respect, than the Messrs Heaton; for whereas they have but very lately issued proposals for such a company, it is a considerable time since a company was actually formed for the purpose of working Dr Church's carriages, not only on the road between London and Birmingham, but between Birmingham, Manchester and Liverpool". Now, Sir, can any thing be more unkind to Dr Church than this invidious comparison, which only proves that Dr Church, a considerable time since, actually formed a company to work steam-carriages which he has not yet been able to construct; while Messrs Heaton Brothers, instead of "trying to eat their fish before 'tis safely taken", have, in a more becoming manner, constructed and demonstrated the capabilities of their engine, and then formed a company to work steam-carriages so constructed. So far as the public are concerned, therefore, Messrs Heaton Brothers certainly have the best claims to patronage.

When Dr Church shall have made six journeys between Birmingham and Wolverhampton in one day, and ascended the Bromsgrove lickey hill [sic] — then "Impartial" may put the Doctor's machine on a level with the ingenious Heatons'; then also may Dr Church emerge from that neglect which at present is kindness to him. Messrs Heaton Brothers, by their unparallelled performances, have placed themselves at the head of steam locomotionists, but there are many others to whom Dr Church must be content for the present to yield undisputed precedence.

In my humble opinion, Dr Church must clip the wings of his flighty imagination, descend to more moderate plans, and confine his extravagant notions within more rational dimensions, before his attempts can have any chance of realising that practical success and utility I wish him from the bottom of my heart most sincerely. I regret that an officious friend of Dr Church's should have extorted this much. I have no partiality either for one inventor or another, and I know quite as well what each are doing as the young gentleman ("Impartial") himself. Truth being my sole object, I could not in justice suffer the letter in question to pass unnoticed: may I hope the next communication may be more creditable to the writer, and more worthy of so ominous a signature.

I am, Sir,
Very respectfully yours,
William Baddeley.
26 October 1833.

Letter 4. MMMRJG (No 536, 16 November 1833).

Please go here for this letter.
 
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Non-Fanboy Hebert on Dr Church 1836.

[Technical writer Luke Hebert was certainly not a Dr Church "fanboy"! From Hebert 1836:]

The locomotive steam carriage, contrived by Dr W H Church, of Birmingham, now comes under observation. His first patent for locomotion is dated 9 February 1832; in this the principal novelties claimed are as follows: — First, the frame-work, which is not to be mortised together in the usual way, but united together by "L", "T", flat, and other shaped iron plates or bars, bolted on each side of the wood work, to obtain strength. This frame-work, well trussed and braced, encloses a space between a hind and fore body of the carriage, and of the same height as the latter, and is to contain the engine, boiler, etc. The boiler consists of a series of vertical tubes, placed side by side, into each of which is introduced a pipe that passes through, and is secured at the bottom of the boiler tube; the interior pipe constitutes the flue; each of them first passes up through a boiler tube, and is then bent syphon-wise, and passed down another till it reaches as low, or lower, than the bottom of the fire-place, whence it passes off into a general flue in communication with an exhausting apparatus. Some other complications of tubes form a part of the arrangement, which our limits forbid us to describe. Two fans are employed, one to blow in air, and the other to draw it our; they are worked as usual, by straps from the crank shaft. The wheels of the carriage are constructed with the view of rendering them to a certain degree elastic, in two different ways: first, the felloes are made of several successive layers of broad wooden hoops, and these are covered with a thin iron tire, having lateral straps to bind the hoops together; second, these binding-straps are connected by hinge joints, to a kind of flat steel springs, somewhat curved, which form the spokes of the wheels. These spring spokes are intended to obviate the necessity, in a great measure, of the ordinary springs, and the elasticity of the periphery is designed that the yielding of the circle shall prevent the wheel from turning without propelling! Dr Church, however, proposes, in addition to spring felloes, spring spokes, and the ordinary springs, to employ air springs, and for that purpose provides two or more cylinders, made fast to the body of the carriage, in a vertical position, closed at top, and furnished with a piston, with packing similar to the cap-leather packing of the hydraulic press: this piston is kept covered with oil, to preserve it in good order, and a piston-rod connects it with the supporting frame of the carriage. Motion is communicated by two steam cylinders made to oscillate, being suspended on the ends of the eduction and induction pipes over the crank shaft. The crank shaft and driving-wheel axle are connected together by means of chains passing about pitched pulleys; and there are two pairs of these pulleys, of different sizes with respect to each other, by which the power may be varied, by shifting the motion from one pair to the other, by means of clutch boxes.

Several successive patents have been taken by Dr Church for improvements connected with locomotive carriages; but we regret to state that we have hitherto met with nothing in his arrangements which the eulogies of the press led us to hope for; but, on the contrary, most of the contrivances appear to us to be rather retrogressions than improvements in practical science. The very stale and unprofitable idea of propelling upon spheroidal wheels (made so by compression), and thus converting, in effect, a hard level surface into a constant hill, we should never have suspected to emanate from the mature and philosophic mind of the patentee.

It has been stated in the public papers, that Dr Church's carriage has recently been tried in the streets of Birmingham, and that it performed very steadily; how far the arrangements in that carriage correspond with the description contained in the patents, we are not informed; but we suspect there must have been a radical reform to enable the machine to work at all. A beautiful print of Dr Church's carriage was published in Birmingham by an artist named Lane, a copy of which is given in the Mechanics' Magazine, No 533. [See post #884.]
 
New Thread: Birmingham Steam Buses 1824-1910.

Folks, I have started a Birmingham Steam Buses 1824-1910 thread :1309:. So all future discussion on the subject can go there, and I will shortly post a chronology with links to the various posts on MRED. In the mean time, there's a "colouring competition"! ;)
 
Courtesy of Carl Chinn in last Saturdays Birmingham Mail, here is an unidentifyed Midland Red making it's way through the Gun Quarter near the Dog & Partridge pub in Lench Street.
 
Thanks, Mike, that's a very interesting picture. I'm sure Lloyd can identify it for us (I can't read the registration so I'm helpless!).
 
Sorry, I can't read it either, and save for saying it's an SOS 'M' type (curved rather than angled side panels) and that Lench St is now an L shaped cul-de-sac in a redeveloped area of the city, can't really help.
The road probably used to continue to the bottom end of Steelhouse Lane, following the line of this narrow roadway (looking straight ahead) from the Queensway into the Children's (formerly the General) Hospital grounds, but what, if any, route it was on is beyond me.
 
The new Digbeth coach Station in its 'Early Days' (Feb 2010). This walk begins at the junction of Bradford St and Mill Lane, where Church's cycle shop aptly used to be, and passes down Mill Lane (so named becase a water mill once stood here, fed by a stream between the Manor House Moat (vis Moat Row) and the R. Rea.
Remember the 'new' office block is built on the frame of the old 1950s "Spencer House" offices of the BMMO.

[video=youtube;CAKF-e8YIxo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAKF-e8YIxo[/video]
 
Thanks for that, Lloyd. So it opened this year (how out of touch I am). Very smart! It's good that the frame at least of Spencer House survives. And I like the "Midland Red" steel fence / sculpture.
 
Frightening look at the proposed redevelopment of the Digbeth area, between St Martins and the Coach Station: and as we knew it.

[video=youtube;Q20YWffZrQY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q20YWffZrQY&feature=related[/video]
 
Re: A Midland Red One!

Lloyd said:
... Hereford bus station office. The station was built on the site of a former prison and this building had been the Govenor's house ...
Click to expand...

Fortunately this lovely old building is listed :):

HEREFORD

SO5140SW COMMERCIAL ROAD 683-1/8/138 (South East side) 22/10/73 Bus Station Offices
(Formerly Listed as: COMMERCIAL ROAD Omnibus Station Offices)

II

Prison Governor's house, now offices. Part of gaol complex built to designs of John Nash. Early C19. Ashlar sandstone; hand-cut slate roof, hipped to right, with gables; 2 stone stacks to ridge, 2 to right end. 2-unit, lobby-entry plan.

EXTERIOR: 2 storeys; symmetrical 4-window range: 2/2 sashes in round-headed arches with keyed, moulded architraves; moulded and corbelled stone eaves. Rusticated ground floor with rusticated keyed arches to doors and windows: entrances to right, with half-glazed, round-headed doors in moulded cases; plate-glass windows in moulded round-headed cases, to left. Stucco pilaster to left. Glass verandah on cast-iron pillars continuing over C20 brick shelter to left returned side. Rear has remnant of early C19 brick wall on chamfered stone plinth, to right; 5-window range: louvred windows and doors in similar arches, but reduced in size. Left-hand element, with C20 door to far left, prominent, with roughcast, probably to brick.

HISTORY: the house was part of the County Gaol, (gaol building now gone), which was erected in 1797 at a cost of £18,646.

Listing NGR: SO5144340228.
 
The pictures of the single deckers...Lench St. and The Bull Ring are similar but the radiators look a little different. Dates maybe about 30s/ 40s perhaps maybe that can be confirmed. I rode on one of those in the late 40s/very early 50s I am pretty sure. I can't think that they were in regular service by then but maybe used for outings. I remember being dissapointed when I was waiting as a boy with my father for the busses to arrive to take us and the rest of his fishing club to Jean's Bank in Arley. In days when swoosh coaches were begining to appear; around the corner came three of those ancient (at that time) single deckers. The drivers were decked out in smart uniforms and caps. The busses chugged along and delivered us to our destination and back again without incident and all in all it was a pleasant outing...on harder seats maybe. I am not totally sure at this point but I think that we had to walk back up the hill at Arley though...and get on the busses at the top. I think that the drivers stayed with the busses at the mandatory pub stop on the way home.
 
Lloyd said:
Frightening look at the proposed redevelopment of the Digbeth area, between St Martins and the Coach Station: and as we knew it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that Lloyd. I wasn't exactly frightened, but my heart did sink when I realised that this could be any city in the world nowadays. Globalisation of architecture! :shocked:

Lovely picture of BCT tram, Midland Red bus (M?), lorrry and pedestrians in a snowy old Digbeth setting.
 
I think the bus is an IM6 type - note the conductor (or inspector) riding half off the entrance step in typical 'publicity photo' fashion in the St Martins (Digbeth) photo.
 
Woo-hoo!

I can't resist exercising "bragging rights". The MRED thread (12,592) has overtaken respected rival MRaD (Midland Red at Digbeth - 12,536) and is now in second place on the "views" chart (in the "Buses" section). Woo-hoo! (Sorry :rolleyes:). But I doubt if we'll ever catch the eminent and venerable Birmingham buses, which is cruising along at nearly 27,000 views).
 
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