Brassed Off
master brummie
I worked on the Witton site from 1960 to 1978.
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mike jenks
master brummie
Hi
Latest from the Hub Witton our old plant is going to be a fruit and veg shop.
Not the best ending. The site proposed covers the vast area of the Kynoch Press
Engineering Work Shops Strip Mills A B C ammunition factories.
Have shown Mikes 1966 Map with the picture from the Birmingham Post.
Mike Jenks
Latest from the Hub Witton our old plant is going to be a fruit and veg shop.
Not the best ending. The site proposed covers the vast area of the Kynoch Press
Engineering Work Shops Strip Mills A B C ammunition factories.
Have shown Mikes 1966 Map with the picture from the Birmingham Post.
Mike Jenks
Attachments
Brassed Off
master brummie
That is one heck of an area what are they going to do grow the fruit and veg. there?
Brassed Off
master brummie
Those we have known and loved? -2
When I left the Apprentice School I arrived at the foremans office in Holdford Sheet Mill.
The sight that I saw was a group of men on their hands and knees studying a variety of newspapers, from amongst the smoke (fags were definately OK then) the foreman introduced himself from his knees with greeting " Do you like to have a bet", there was obviously a big horse race on that day and they were all studying the form from all available daily papers.
Not being a betting man then, although I did try it later! I was summarily told to find a certain millwright who would "see to me".
This particular mill had a strong betting structure, so much so that there was a resident "bookies runner" in the mill.
He possessed a leather satchel with a time clock fitted to it, he would place all the bets inside and upon locking it the time was stamped inside letting the bookie know that the bets had been placed prior to that time.
The engineer was a very strict man who was known to not have much of a sense of humour and always liked things done "correctly".
Being a bit nosy I asked the "runner" how did he get away with running his book, he told me to stand and hide in a certain place and keep my eye on his steel cupboard, this cupboard had a slot in the top of it so that items could be posted into it. At the advised time the engineer casually walked to the cupboard and posted an "item" into it, giving the top of said cupboard a couple of "lucky taps", after he had gone the "runner", with a huge grin gave me the thumbs up sign, another outlook on life was learnt!
When I left the Apprentice School I arrived at the foremans office in Holdford Sheet Mill.
The sight that I saw was a group of men on their hands and knees studying a variety of newspapers, from amongst the smoke (fags were definately OK then) the foreman introduced himself from his knees with greeting " Do you like to have a bet", there was obviously a big horse race on that day and they were all studying the form from all available daily papers.
Not being a betting man then, although I did try it later! I was summarily told to find a certain millwright who would "see to me".
This particular mill had a strong betting structure, so much so that there was a resident "bookies runner" in the mill.
He possessed a leather satchel with a time clock fitted to it, he would place all the bets inside and upon locking it the time was stamped inside letting the bookie know that the bets had been placed prior to that time.
The engineer was a very strict man who was known to not have much of a sense of humour and always liked things done "correctly".
Being a bit nosy I asked the "runner" how did he get away with running his book, he told me to stand and hide in a certain place and keep my eye on his steel cupboard, this cupboard had a slot in the top of it so that items could be posted into it. At the advised time the engineer casually walked to the cupboard and posted an "item" into it, giving the top of said cupboard a couple of "lucky taps", after he had gone the "runner", with a huge grin gave me the thumbs up sign, another outlook on life was learnt!
Brassed Off
master brummie
Those we Have Known and Loved - 3
Johnie B was the millwright that most of the lads liked to work with, he was a lot younger in both years and outlook to most of the others, and therefore you could have a laugh with him.
One lesson he taught me was the art of "kidology"
The mill operatives would look for any excuse to stop rolling. The reason for this was that they were paid a standard rate when their mill was undergoing maintenance.
A favourite excuse was that the clutch was slipping on the drive mechanism, it was very hard to disprove this.
JB was called to rectify this problem and took me along, on the way he told me not to say anything but just watch, and agree with all he said.
Having assured the operators that it would take several minutes to sort out the clutch, he removed the cover and proceeded to reach into the gearbox.
After much grumbling and grunting etc. he asked me to pass several spanners and a small hammer.
He calls me over to instruct me in the "finer" art of adjustment. All he did was tap various bits inside the gearbox.
He then asked the operator to try the mill out, and asked if that was a bit better. "Yes" came the reply, to which JB said "Let me give it another tweak", which he pretended to do.
The operators were very pleased that JB had consulted them, and involved them in the required maintenance.
With a smug look we departed, leaving a happy bunch of blokes!
Johnie B was the millwright that most of the lads liked to work with, he was a lot younger in both years and outlook to most of the others, and therefore you could have a laugh with him.
One lesson he taught me was the art of "kidology"
The mill operatives would look for any excuse to stop rolling. The reason for this was that they were paid a standard rate when their mill was undergoing maintenance.
A favourite excuse was that the clutch was slipping on the drive mechanism, it was very hard to disprove this.
JB was called to rectify this problem and took me along, on the way he told me not to say anything but just watch, and agree with all he said.
Having assured the operators that it would take several minutes to sort out the clutch, he removed the cover and proceeded to reach into the gearbox.
After much grumbling and grunting etc. he asked me to pass several spanners and a small hammer.
He calls me over to instruct me in the "finer" art of adjustment. All he did was tap various bits inside the gearbox.
He then asked the operator to try the mill out, and asked if that was a bit better. "Yes" came the reply, to which JB said "Let me give it another tweak", which he pretended to do.
The operators were very pleased that JB had consulted them, and involved them in the required maintenance.
With a smug look we departed, leaving a happy bunch of blokes!
Brassed Off
master brummie
Those we Have Known and loved? - 4
Characters; working in such a huge factory, there were over 14,000 employed on the Witton site there were more than our share of "characters".
Blue Brick; was the nickname of one millwright, and when you asked how such an unusual name came about, one of the others would take you into a part of the dept. and show you a wall. This wall was about 100ft long and 30ft high. "Blue Brick" had been given the job of fixing a sign onto this wall.
The given instruction was "stick it somewhere in the middle". B.B. being a conscientious chap felt that in the middle meant exactly that.
Having duly measured and found the middle, work started. As bad luck proved, this very place had a blue brick exactly there.
These bricks are not only blue in colour but engineering ones and very hard to drill into.
A job that should have taken a few minutes took the best part of an hour to complete.
The foreman wondered what had gone wrong, and thinking he had been skiving asked the millwright for the reason for the amount of time spent doing what was a simple job.
"Ah a blue brick" was the answer, not understanding the foreman went and viewed the wall. Out of the thousands of bricks in that wall there was only one blue brick!
During my time in this dept. I occasionally had to work with Blue Brick. On one job the engineer was supervising.
He asked BB for his rule, a measurement was needed, the engineer was given a hacksaw blade, he looked at it, he looked at me, I shrugged, he turned it over to see if there were any
markings on the other side of it, there were none!
When asked why the "bl**dy" hell he had been given a hacksaw blade instead of a rule, the reply was that you counted the number of teeth per inch on the blade and divided, that way the measurement was found.
With a look of complete amazement and disbelief the engineer wandered off shaking his head.
Characters; working in such a huge factory, there were over 14,000 employed on the Witton site there were more than our share of "characters".
Blue Brick; was the nickname of one millwright, and when you asked how such an unusual name came about, one of the others would take you into a part of the dept. and show you a wall. This wall was about 100ft long and 30ft high. "Blue Brick" had been given the job of fixing a sign onto this wall.
The given instruction was "stick it somewhere in the middle". B.B. being a conscientious chap felt that in the middle meant exactly that.
Having duly measured and found the middle, work started. As bad luck proved, this very place had a blue brick exactly there.
These bricks are not only blue in colour but engineering ones and very hard to drill into.
A job that should have taken a few minutes took the best part of an hour to complete.
The foreman wondered what had gone wrong, and thinking he had been skiving asked the millwright for the reason for the amount of time spent doing what was a simple job.
"Ah a blue brick" was the answer, not understanding the foreman went and viewed the wall. Out of the thousands of bricks in that wall there was only one blue brick!
During my time in this dept. I occasionally had to work with Blue Brick. On one job the engineer was supervising.
He asked BB for his rule, a measurement was needed, the engineer was given a hacksaw blade, he looked at it, he looked at me, I shrugged, he turned it over to see if there were any
markings on the other side of it, there were none!
When asked why the "bl**dy" hell he had been given a hacksaw blade instead of a rule, the reply was that you counted the number of teeth per inch on the blade and divided, that way the measurement was found.
With a look of complete amazement and disbelief the engineer wandered off shaking his head.
Brassed Off
master brummie
Those we have known and loved? - 5
"Corrugated" was well known as being light fingered, he got his nickname from his hair style. It was a series of waves across the top of his head, it reminded us of a sheet of corrugated cardboard or steel as used in air raid shelters, hence the name.
If anything went "missing" it was usually when he had been in the vicinity. The dept. that I worked in used 240 volt electric light bulbs, most of the factory used 120 volt ones.
The electrician found that a number of his stock of bulbs had gone AWOL, he discovered them in Corrugateds coat pocket. I was asked, if and when he was working away from his coat, would I smash the bulbs inside his pocket without him knowing. This I did because others got the blame when he got up to his tricks.
The following day he returned to work, and not word was said, we expected him to come in with his fingers bandaged, there was not a scratch, but no more light bulbs went missing.
Johnny M; was a simple soul, he had served in a mortar unit during the War, and had suffered from a German unit mortaring them in return.
The cruel amongst us said that when they put him back together they left a few bits out.
He could never understand why when he had been told to kill as many Germans as possible. he then found wounded Germans being treated in the same hospital as him!
As a millwrights mate he was at the "beck and call" of the men he worked with, this meant that a variety of harmless tricks were played on him.
Cruel, but this was factory humour in the 1960's. One prank played on him involved a capstan lathe, we had transported it from one end of the factory to the other.
At its destination it was unloaded from the lorry, and placed into position with the help of an overhead crane.
The millwright, with a knowing wink to me, asked John to switch the machine on "to make sure it still works, and we have not broken it during the transporting of it", bearing in mind that it wasn't even wired up. "Bugger me" says the millwright, "it must be broke". There happened to be a few spare bulbs lying in the machine. "Try fitting some new bulbs John, and lets see if we can get it going". new bulbs were fitted,the effect was the same, the machine still didn't work. "Sod this" said the millwright, "let's clear off before anyone finds out we've bust it"
A hasty departure was made with John not twigging what had gone on!
"Corrugated" was well known as being light fingered, he got his nickname from his hair style. It was a series of waves across the top of his head, it reminded us of a sheet of corrugated cardboard or steel as used in air raid shelters, hence the name.
If anything went "missing" it was usually when he had been in the vicinity. The dept. that I worked in used 240 volt electric light bulbs, most of the factory used 120 volt ones.
The electrician found that a number of his stock of bulbs had gone AWOL, he discovered them in Corrugateds coat pocket. I was asked, if and when he was working away from his coat, would I smash the bulbs inside his pocket without him knowing. This I did because others got the blame when he got up to his tricks.
The following day he returned to work, and not word was said, we expected him to come in with his fingers bandaged, there was not a scratch, but no more light bulbs went missing.
Johnny M; was a simple soul, he had served in a mortar unit during the War, and had suffered from a German unit mortaring them in return.
The cruel amongst us said that when they put him back together they left a few bits out.
He could never understand why when he had been told to kill as many Germans as possible. he then found wounded Germans being treated in the same hospital as him!
As a millwrights mate he was at the "beck and call" of the men he worked with, this meant that a variety of harmless tricks were played on him.
Cruel, but this was factory humour in the 1960's. One prank played on him involved a capstan lathe, we had transported it from one end of the factory to the other.
At its destination it was unloaded from the lorry, and placed into position with the help of an overhead crane.
The millwright, with a knowing wink to me, asked John to switch the machine on "to make sure it still works, and we have not broken it during the transporting of it", bearing in mind that it wasn't even wired up. "Bugger me" says the millwright, "it must be broke". There happened to be a few spare bulbs lying in the machine. "Try fitting some new bulbs John, and lets see if we can get it going". new bulbs were fitted,the effect was the same, the machine still didn't work. "Sod this" said the millwright, "let's clear off before anyone finds out we've bust it"
A hasty departure was made with John not twigging what had gone on!
Brassed Off
master brummie
Those we have known and loved? -6
Don C. Had been a POW of the Japanese during the war. He was captured in Singapore and held in Changi Barracks. He ended up working on the notorious railway.
When I was told to work with him , the foreman had me in his office, and said that if Don ever started to talk or sing in a foreign language, I was to excuse myself and let him know.
This occurred on one occasion, and after letting the foreman know, Don was given sick leave. It turned out that it was a Japanese marching song that the prisoners were made to sing when they were being marched to work on the railway!
He was a knowledgeable chap, who was very good on compressors, these being his speciality., as well as vehicle engines.
During my time with him, several months, he told me of the harsh treatment that the Japs had meted out to their prisoners.
Don was fortunate! in the fact that he wasn't very tall, and he was a mechanic by trade. In those days the average Japanese did not have a clue about about engines etc. so he was useful to them. Also being short he didn't physically look down at his captors, they hated tall prisoners who obviously towered over them, and they were given hell.
On one occasion when all the prisoners were on parade, the camp commander inspected his own men, and found one of their uniforms to be not correct. He proceeded to slap the man about the face, and then punch him. Losing complete control he ended up kicking the unfortunate guard onto the ground.
No one dared to show any emotion with regard to the incident, otherwise they would have had the same or worse.
Don said that they then realised just what sort of treatment they the prisoners could expect from their captors.
While on the railway, to help supplement their food rations they devised a way of fishing with explosives.
The prisoners would get into the river and form a line across it, someone upstream would throw the explosive/hand grenade into the water, this would kill some of fish that would then float down to the waiting men.
The Japs would take most of the catch for themselves leaving little for the prisoners.
A way round this was thought out, and several of the men hid a couple of bamboo sticks tied together with with some string for when the fish floated down to them they could spear some of them through, and then stuck the catch into the river bed. This kept them below the surface and could not be seen by the guards. Having marked the river banks previously, they could retrieve their share of the catch later in day.
Don hater all things Japanese and who could blame him after what he had gone through.
He wasn't too keen on the Aussies either! having surrendered Singapore to them, the Japanese air force decided to do a couple of victory rolls over the town.
According to Don some Aussies decided to shoot at them, this led to another bombardment from their already victorious enemy.
Another part of the surrender involved the captured troops being marched to Changi Barracks. On the way there, the "native troops" (non European) were herded off into fields and machine gunned by their captors.
These last couple of snippets were "kosher" according to Don, who tended not to embellish his wartime memories.
Don C. Had been a POW of the Japanese during the war. He was captured in Singapore and held in Changi Barracks. He ended up working on the notorious railway.
When I was told to work with him , the foreman had me in his office, and said that if Don ever started to talk or sing in a foreign language, I was to excuse myself and let him know.
This occurred on one occasion, and after letting the foreman know, Don was given sick leave. It turned out that it was a Japanese marching song that the prisoners were made to sing when they were being marched to work on the railway!
He was a knowledgeable chap, who was very good on compressors, these being his speciality., as well as vehicle engines.
During my time with him, several months, he told me of the harsh treatment that the Japs had meted out to their prisoners.
Don was fortunate! in the fact that he wasn't very tall, and he was a mechanic by trade. In those days the average Japanese did not have a clue about about engines etc. so he was useful to them. Also being short he didn't physically look down at his captors, they hated tall prisoners who obviously towered over them, and they were given hell.
On one occasion when all the prisoners were on parade, the camp commander inspected his own men, and found one of their uniforms to be not correct. He proceeded to slap the man about the face, and then punch him. Losing complete control he ended up kicking the unfortunate guard onto the ground.
No one dared to show any emotion with regard to the incident, otherwise they would have had the same or worse.
Don said that they then realised just what sort of treatment they the prisoners could expect from their captors.
While on the railway, to help supplement their food rations they devised a way of fishing with explosives.
The prisoners would get into the river and form a line across it, someone upstream would throw the explosive/hand grenade into the water, this would kill some of fish that would then float down to the waiting men.
The Japs would take most of the catch for themselves leaving little for the prisoners.
A way round this was thought out, and several of the men hid a couple of bamboo sticks tied together with with some string for when the fish floated down to them they could spear some of them through, and then stuck the catch into the river bed. This kept them below the surface and could not be seen by the guards. Having marked the river banks previously, they could retrieve their share of the catch later in day.
Don hater all things Japanese and who could blame him after what he had gone through.
He wasn't too keen on the Aussies either! having surrendered Singapore to them, the Japanese air force decided to do a couple of victory rolls over the town.
According to Don some Aussies decided to shoot at them, this led to another bombardment from their already victorious enemy.
Another part of the surrender involved the captured troops being marched to Changi Barracks. On the way there, the "native troops" (non European) were herded off into fields and machine gunned by their captors.
These last couple of snippets were "kosher" according to Don, who tended not to embellish his wartime memories.
Brassed Off
master brummie
Those we Have Known and Loved? - 7
Cliff; I met Cliff through our mutual interest in the Villa. Both he and his mother were avid fans, both having a season ticket for many years, mom at the time was well into her 80's, and never missed a game.
He told me of a time when he was serving in the far East, up against the Japanese. On this particular occasion he and his mates were dug into 2fox holes", these are a hole just big enough to hold one man.
Everyone was in an extremely high state of alert because they expected the Japs to try to infiltrate their lines during the night.
To his horror and surprise he felt a tap on his shoulder, it turned out that someone had crawled through to him from the HQ radio tent, he was wanted there ASAP.
Wondering what the devil he was wanted for he joined the messenger and crawled back through the lines with him.
Back at the tent he was sat down, and a pair of head phones were placed on his head. He sat there trying to make sense of what was happening, gradually he listened to what was being broadcast over the headphones. It was Ramond Glendening a BBC sports reporter, commentating on the war time cup final from Villa Park.
It was Villa versus Blackpool, he was allowed to listen to the whole match, at least someone there had got their priorities right, they knew Cliff was an avid Villa fan and decided to give him a treat!
Cliff; I met Cliff through our mutual interest in the Villa. Both he and his mother were avid fans, both having a season ticket for many years, mom at the time was well into her 80's, and never missed a game.
He told me of a time when he was serving in the far East, up against the Japanese. On this particular occasion he and his mates were dug into 2fox holes", these are a hole just big enough to hold one man.
Everyone was in an extremely high state of alert because they expected the Japs to try to infiltrate their lines during the night.
To his horror and surprise he felt a tap on his shoulder, it turned out that someone had crawled through to him from the HQ radio tent, he was wanted there ASAP.
Wondering what the devil he was wanted for he joined the messenger and crawled back through the lines with him.
Back at the tent he was sat down, and a pair of head phones were placed on his head. He sat there trying to make sense of what was happening, gradually he listened to what was being broadcast over the headphones. It was Ramond Glendening a BBC sports reporter, commentating on the war time cup final from Villa Park.
It was Villa versus Blackpool, he was allowed to listen to the whole match, at least someone there had got their priorities right, they knew Cliff was an avid Villa fan and decided to give him a treat!
Brassed Off
master brummie
Those we have known and Loved? -8
Joe C; Was a very slightly built chap, and because of this he had served in the light infantry during the War.
He was very keen on boxing, and given his build, I asked him one day how he was so keen on boxing.
It turned out that he had been an army champion in his day, later a photo was brought in showing Joe in a classic boxing pose, with a massive belt around his waist, what a surprise to us all.
One day I was reading a book during a lunch break, it was about the Allied offensive that dislodged the Japanese and started their retreat.
Joe enquired about the book having seen the title. "Does it mention that it rained a lot" he asked, "yes" was my reply, "have you read the book?" I asked.
"No I was there" he said. Joe then told me that the Allies decided to break with tradition and attack in the monsoon season.
The men were told that once they had the Japs on the run, they must not let them establish any sort of hold again.
"If you do then you will have to get them out of it" they were told.
They did as they were told and chased and harried the Japs, knowing a moments easing up would cost then dearly.
Joe C; Was a very slightly built chap, and because of this he had served in the light infantry during the War.
He was very keen on boxing, and given his build, I asked him one day how he was so keen on boxing.
It turned out that he had been an army champion in his day, later a photo was brought in showing Joe in a classic boxing pose, with a massive belt around his waist, what a surprise to us all.
One day I was reading a book during a lunch break, it was about the Allied offensive that dislodged the Japanese and started their retreat.
Joe enquired about the book having seen the title. "Does it mention that it rained a lot" he asked, "yes" was my reply, "have you read the book?" I asked.
"No I was there" he said. Joe then told me that the Allies decided to break with tradition and attack in the monsoon season.
The men were told that once they had the Japs on the run, they must not let them establish any sort of hold again.
"If you do then you will have to get them out of it" they were told.
They did as they were told and chased and harried the Japs, knowing a moments easing up would cost then dearly.
Brassed Off
master brummie
Those we have Known and Loved? -9
Jack W; Jack was a "card" he was up to every dodge in the book.
he had had an industrial injury and wore a back support, and was therefore on light duties.
Our dept. used to service the lifting hoists and ancillary equipment in a number of mills around the Witton site.
One of Jacks jobs was to oil the lifting blocks that ran on tracks 10 or 12 feet above the floor. To do so a ladder was needed to get up to them.
I went with jack to learn his round in case he was ever absent. With oil can in hand we sauntered along, Jack had only one speed, "gently" in his words, slow in anyone else's.
At each set of blocks Jack glanced around, and not being watched he squirted some oil onto the floor, "not too much" he said, "otherwise you give the game away".
The following week the foreman went with me to make sure I knew the route.
His comment was that "you can always see where Jack's been because of the oil that he always let drip onto the floor after he has done the job".
Mum was the word, I daren't let the truth be known.
Several years later I was on a company course at Holdford House, that required small teams to look out of the window, and judge the work rate of the various people that were working within our view. We had to give marks up to 10 to each person, dependent on our opinion as to their work rate.
All went well and each team handed in their sheets of marks to the instructor.
He looked them over until he came to the team that had given someone only 2 points.
"How on Earth can you give anyone such a low mark", the instructor declared.
The team were at a loss, when one of them spotted the person that they had been given the low score outside in the yard.
The instructor studied the person for a few moments, and declared that they had indeed given the wrong marks. "He doesn't deserve the 2 you gave him, they were far too generous.
The person in question was my old mate Jack, "gently" going about his business. Again I said nowt, letting Jack go on his way "gently".
How did Jack get away with it for so many years? I asked him on many occasions, but he always answered with a wink of the eye.
When his retirement day came I made a point of asking him again. My logic was that whatever he told me would count for little, now that he was no longer an employee.
It worked,it turned out that many years previously, Jack who lived in the countryside, had had a day off, he had taken his dog a walk along a canal towpath.
On the way he had passed a car that was all steamed up, and judging from its motions, there was "activity" going on inside.
Just as he walked past, the window was wiped from the inside and a face appeared.
It happened to be his foreman, who to intents and purposes was a church going man!
Nothing was said then or at any time later, but there was an understanding between them.
Now jack's little secret is between the 3 of us.
Jack W; Jack was a "card" he was up to every dodge in the book.
he had had an industrial injury and wore a back support, and was therefore on light duties.
Our dept. used to service the lifting hoists and ancillary equipment in a number of mills around the Witton site.
One of Jacks jobs was to oil the lifting blocks that ran on tracks 10 or 12 feet above the floor. To do so a ladder was needed to get up to them.
I went with jack to learn his round in case he was ever absent. With oil can in hand we sauntered along, Jack had only one speed, "gently" in his words, slow in anyone else's.
At each set of blocks Jack glanced around, and not being watched he squirted some oil onto the floor, "not too much" he said, "otherwise you give the game away".
The following week the foreman went with me to make sure I knew the route.
His comment was that "you can always see where Jack's been because of the oil that he always let drip onto the floor after he has done the job".
Mum was the word, I daren't let the truth be known.
Several years later I was on a company course at Holdford House, that required small teams to look out of the window, and judge the work rate of the various people that were working within our view. We had to give marks up to 10 to each person, dependent on our opinion as to their work rate.
All went well and each team handed in their sheets of marks to the instructor.
He looked them over until he came to the team that had given someone only 2 points.
"How on Earth can you give anyone such a low mark", the instructor declared.
The team were at a loss, when one of them spotted the person that they had been given the low score outside in the yard.
The instructor studied the person for a few moments, and declared that they had indeed given the wrong marks. "He doesn't deserve the 2 you gave him, they were far too generous.
The person in question was my old mate Jack, "gently" going about his business. Again I said nowt, letting Jack go on his way "gently".
How did Jack get away with it for so many years? I asked him on many occasions, but he always answered with a wink of the eye.
When his retirement day came I made a point of asking him again. My logic was that whatever he told me would count for little, now that he was no longer an employee.
It worked,it turned out that many years previously, Jack who lived in the countryside, had had a day off, he had taken his dog a walk along a canal towpath.
On the way he had passed a car that was all steamed up, and judging from its motions, there was "activity" going on inside.
Just as he walked past, the window was wiped from the inside and a face appeared.
It happened to be his foreman, who to intents and purposes was a church going man!
Nothing was said then or at any time later, but there was an understanding between them.
Now jack's little secret is between the 3 of us.
Pedrocut
Master Barmmie
Should of course have included this link!
https://brownhillsbob.com/2015/09/19/a-view-from-a-bridge/#comment-87791
https://brownhillsbob.com/2015/09/19/a-view-from-a-bridge/#comment-87791
Brassed Off
master brummie
Those we have known and Loved? -10
Bob C; was one of those people who always looked as "old as Gods dog". he appeared to be well beyond his retirement age(65).
He originated from Liverpool, and joined the company just after the war. he was an ex navy/merchant seaman as were most of the men in the Tackle Shop, their work entailed the splicing of lifting slings, and the lifting wires for various cranes across the site.
Many tales and yarns were spun (obviously this being an ex seafaring group) some believable others not.
One day Bob was reminiscing about some tricks he had pulled from when he was at sea. It involved his ship calling in to Brazil, where the crew would purchase some exotic parrots.
The ship would "beat up" the coast to New York where they would sell the birds at a great profit, before sailing off "on the tide" before the birds died of the cold.
The older seamen among us us had not heard these phrases or terms since the day of sailing ships!
Subsequent conversations gave those in the know a pretty good idea that Bob had indeed sailed on ships with sails.
Having come from Liverpool, his home town, we knew that the records office there had been destroyed during the bombing of the city.
Peoples records in the 1940's were very patchy and in some cases hard to verify as to the validity of them.
Several of us thought that a few years had been left off Bob's age so that he could get a job and keep it.
One of Bob's "little habits" was to take a house brick home with him at every possible opportunity.
The reason for this was that he was building a small extension onto his house.
This went on for quite a time, until one day the type of brick the company used to stock was changed to an entirely different one.
The extension had to be finished with odd bricks!
Bob C; was one of those people who always looked as "old as Gods dog". he appeared to be well beyond his retirement age(65).
He originated from Liverpool, and joined the company just after the war. he was an ex navy/merchant seaman as were most of the men in the Tackle Shop, their work entailed the splicing of lifting slings, and the lifting wires for various cranes across the site.
Many tales and yarns were spun (obviously this being an ex seafaring group) some believable others not.
One day Bob was reminiscing about some tricks he had pulled from when he was at sea. It involved his ship calling in to Brazil, where the crew would purchase some exotic parrots.
The ship would "beat up" the coast to New York where they would sell the birds at a great profit, before sailing off "on the tide" before the birds died of the cold.
The older seamen among us us had not heard these phrases or terms since the day of sailing ships!
Subsequent conversations gave those in the know a pretty good idea that Bob had indeed sailed on ships with sails.
Having come from Liverpool, his home town, we knew that the records office there had been destroyed during the bombing of the city.
Peoples records in the 1940's were very patchy and in some cases hard to verify as to the validity of them.
Several of us thought that a few years had been left off Bob's age so that he could get a job and keep it.
One of Bob's "little habits" was to take a house brick home with him at every possible opportunity.
The reason for this was that he was building a small extension onto his house.
This went on for quite a time, until one day the type of brick the company used to stock was changed to an entirely different one.
The extension had to be finished with odd bricks!
Brassed Off
master brummie
Those we have known and loved? -11
Henry; was one of many poles that had stayed in the UK after the war.
During it he had to work for the Germans as slave labour, each family in Poland had to provide one member for this work.
Henry was the only one able to go, because he was so small, and still only a boy, he was given the job of driving a steam roller repairing roads.
Despite this harsh start to his life Henry had a great sense of humour.
David; A young lad who was employed as a labourer, he was habitually late in getting to work on time.
As his foreman I had to ask him for his reasons of the lateness's.
Each time he came out with a different one each time, after a while I started to make a note of of them , to see if he would repeat them, he didn't.
The number of incidents that the bus had on its journey was "impressive".
The manager called me in one day to discuss David's lateness's.
I took along my note book, he was amazed, if not impressed, with the diversity of the excuses, all non provable or otherwise.
Henry; was one of many poles that had stayed in the UK after the war.
During it he had to work for the Germans as slave labour, each family in Poland had to provide one member for this work.
Henry was the only one able to go, because he was so small, and still only a boy, he was given the job of driving a steam roller repairing roads.
Despite this harsh start to his life Henry had a great sense of humour.
David; A young lad who was employed as a labourer, he was habitually late in getting to work on time.
As his foreman I had to ask him for his reasons of the lateness's.
Each time he came out with a different one each time, after a while I started to make a note of of them , to see if he would repeat them, he didn't.
The number of incidents that the bus had on its journey was "impressive".
The manager called me in one day to discuss David's lateness's.
I took along my note book, he was amazed, if not impressed, with the diversity of the excuses, all non provable or otherwise.
Brassed Off
master brummie
Those we have known and loved? - 12
Freddie Feather; Derived his name because he bred budgerigars. Fred was a millwrights mate, and could be a bit vociferous.
Following an illness Fred was put into the stores to help him recover his health.
Knowing that he hated to be caught out by pranks, one was hatched to play on him.
In the stores was a telephone, a call was made to the store man (Fred), purporting to be from the GPO engineers.
It was said that a fault had been reported about the quality of the line from the stores.
The "engineer" asked that a phrase could be repeated back to the "engineer".
"It will sound funny" Fred was told, "but will help us to ascertain the quality of the call at the exchange".
Being in a helpful mood Fred duly agreed.
In the mean time the stores happened to fill up with people that needed to find something that only they could find.
"What shall I do with little Bath bun" was the phrase to be repeated.
The response from the "engineer" was, "stick it up your a**e". At which point everyone in the stores jeered and cat called poor old Fred.
He took a very long time to live that one down.
Freddie Feather; Derived his name because he bred budgerigars. Fred was a millwrights mate, and could be a bit vociferous.
Following an illness Fred was put into the stores to help him recover his health.
Knowing that he hated to be caught out by pranks, one was hatched to play on him.
In the stores was a telephone, a call was made to the store man (Fred), purporting to be from the GPO engineers.
It was said that a fault had been reported about the quality of the line from the stores.
The "engineer" asked that a phrase could be repeated back to the "engineer".
"It will sound funny" Fred was told, "but will help us to ascertain the quality of the call at the exchange".
Being in a helpful mood Fred duly agreed.
In the mean time the stores happened to fill up with people that needed to find something that only they could find.
"What shall I do with little Bath bun" was the phrase to be repeated.
The response from the "engineer" was, "stick it up your a**e". At which point everyone in the stores jeered and cat called poor old Fred.
He took a very long time to live that one down.
Brassed Off
master brummie
Those we have known and loved? - 13
Dennis; was an electricians mate, a very amenable chap, unless he was riled.
On one job Dennis sent the apprentice to the other side of a massive wall, with instruction to pass through a small hole, a cable that they had got to connect up.
Dennis was kneeling down shouting through the hole a variety of threats etc that he was going to heap on lad, if he didn't pass the cable through the hole as instructed.
The cable was poked through and each time Dennis went to grasp it the lad pulled it back.
Beside himself, the abuse was in "full flow", when a voice behind Dennis asked"is everything alright my man".
Without looking round Dennis let forth a string of "profanities" to the enquirer.
Having then turned around Dennis was confronted by the Lord Mayor of Birmingham on his annual visit to the Witton Site.
Thankfully the Mayor saw the funny side of the situation.
But, forever Dennis was known as the man who told the Lord Mayor to"F*** off".
Although they were not "characters". a couple of men were always treated with the greatest of care and respect by all who passed them.
The reason for this was that each day they used to walk carrying a red box.
In this box were a couple of containers, each holding the days supply of extremely high explosive, to be delivered to to Sporting Loading areas, for the shot gun cartridges.
The two men were required in case the one carrying the box fell ill or stumbled.
Thankfully there were never any incidents that we heard of.
Dennis; was an electricians mate, a very amenable chap, unless he was riled.
On one job Dennis sent the apprentice to the other side of a massive wall, with instruction to pass through a small hole, a cable that they had got to connect up.
Dennis was kneeling down shouting through the hole a variety of threats etc that he was going to heap on lad, if he didn't pass the cable through the hole as instructed.
The cable was poked through and each time Dennis went to grasp it the lad pulled it back.
Beside himself, the abuse was in "full flow", when a voice behind Dennis asked"is everything alright my man".
Without looking round Dennis let forth a string of "profanities" to the enquirer.
Having then turned around Dennis was confronted by the Lord Mayor of Birmingham on his annual visit to the Witton Site.
Thankfully the Mayor saw the funny side of the situation.
But, forever Dennis was known as the man who told the Lord Mayor to"F*** off".
Although they were not "characters". a couple of men were always treated with the greatest of care and respect by all who passed them.
The reason for this was that each day they used to walk carrying a red box.
In this box were a couple of containers, each holding the days supply of extremely high explosive, to be delivered to to Sporting Loading areas, for the shot gun cartridges.
The two men were required in case the one carrying the box fell ill or stumbled.
Thankfully there were never any incidents that we heard of.
Brassed Off
master brummie
Those we Have known and Loved? -14
I have tried to put on record some of the people that I knew and worked with in my time at IMI (Kynochs).
In no way have I tried to demean any of them.
The period in the 1960’s was a time when many that were at work in the factories had gone through the horrors of WWII, and one or two through WWI!
I think that I was fortunate to be able to listen in to many conversations between fellow combatants. They seemed able to talk of their experiences with others that had gone through similar ones, when they would probably have kept quiet if their fellow workmate had not been through it themselves.
In the 1960’s it was a time of great industrial upheaval, many have wondered how and why this period was so volatile
My own theory is that having gone through the traumas that war can and did throw at them and to come out alive, they felt that nothing could touch them again. I worked with one millwright who had this “devil may care” attitude, and when I asked him how and why, his answer was “what Jerry and Jap couldn’t do then no one can or will”.
There will never be such diverse workforces as there were in the 60’s, with the newly arrived immigrants from the West Indies as well as the Indian Continent, or such huge factories, IMI Kynochs being one of many in the City of B’ham.
Sadly most if not all of these mentioned are no longer with us, but their stories should be told.
There will no doubt be many other characters and personalities in many other factories that have left us with their thoughts, actions, and memories?
I have tried to put on record some of the people that I knew and worked with in my time at IMI (Kynochs).
In no way have I tried to demean any of them.
The period in the 1960’s was a time when many that were at work in the factories had gone through the horrors of WWII, and one or two through WWI!
I think that I was fortunate to be able to listen in to many conversations between fellow combatants. They seemed able to talk of their experiences with others that had gone through similar ones, when they would probably have kept quiet if their fellow workmate had not been through it themselves.
In the 1960’s it was a time of great industrial upheaval, many have wondered how and why this period was so volatile
My own theory is that having gone through the traumas that war can and did throw at them and to come out alive, they felt that nothing could touch them again. I worked with one millwright who had this “devil may care” attitude, and when I asked him how and why, his answer was “what Jerry and Jap couldn’t do then no one can or will”.
There will never be such diverse workforces as there were in the 60’s, with the newly arrived immigrants from the West Indies as well as the Indian Continent, or such huge factories, IMI Kynochs being one of many in the City of B’ham.
Sadly most if not all of these mentioned are no longer with us, but their stories should be told.
There will no doubt be many other characters and personalities in many other factories that have left us with their thoughts, actions, and memories?
Remember the sound of IMI ammunition testing when we lived in Kingstanding in the 1950s/60s. Viv.
Pedrocut
Master Barmmie
It seems remarkable that the name of Kynoch still endures to the present day with the site of the works at Witton. George Kynoch went to work with Pursall, at Whittall Street, in 1856, and it was in that year that Pursall had bought his firm from a chap called Arrowsmith. Kynoch became a partner and took over around 1862 when the firm became Geo Kynoch, and although it had moved to Witton its business address was Little Hampton Street.
In 1884 it became a limited Company with Kynoch as MD; along with his salary he was given many preferential shares. In 1888 he resigned due to "Ill-health." In 1890 George Kynoch's interest in the firm finished completely with the sale of his shares in the Company, along with the furniture in Hampstead Hall, seemingly to finance his speculation in South Africa.
The Company became Kynoch Ltd in 1897, and remained to around 1926. George Kynoch had only been associated from 1862 until 1888 or 1890; being 26 to 28 years and about 125 years after doing a runner to South Africa.
(Similar to the Staffs Home guard site, but Graces Guide to British Industry slips in a couple of points missed by the Home guard. George Kynoch's "love of speculation" saw the firm in near liquidation in 1870 and being helped out by a Mr Abraham.)
https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/G._Kynoch_and_Co
In 1884 it became a limited Company with Kynoch as MD; along with his salary he was given many preferential shares. In 1888 he resigned due to "Ill-health." In 1890 George Kynoch's interest in the firm finished completely with the sale of his shares in the Company, along with the furniture in Hampstead Hall, seemingly to finance his speculation in South Africa.
The Company became Kynoch Ltd in 1897, and remained to around 1926. George Kynoch had only been associated from 1862 until 1888 or 1890; being 26 to 28 years and about 125 years after doing a runner to South Africa.
(Similar to the Staffs Home guard site, but Graces Guide to British Industry slips in a couple of points missed by the Home guard. George Kynoch's "love of speculation" saw the firm in near liquidation in 1870 and being helped out by a Mr Abraham.)
https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/G._Kynoch_and_Co
Pedrocut
Master Barmmie
On the thread "Witton Then (1939) and Now", and the above post, I made the comment that I was surprised that the name Kynoch had endured even to the present day as George Kynoch had left the firm in 1888. This led me to check out again the thread "Kynoch's or IMI."
This is a very long thread, and I would like to draw together some info so that other can rubbish or correct if it is wrong. There seems that over the years, since the middle of the 1800s, some confusion has crept in. Take for example the never to be trusted Wikipedia....here is the reference to IMI plc...
"The Company was founded by Scottish entrepreneur George Kynoch who opened a percussion cap factory in Witton, West Midlands in 1862, trading as Kynoch...."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMI_plc
1856 George Kynoch joins Messrs Pursall and Philips, percussion cap manufacturers in Whittall Street, after being employed at a Birmingham bank. The firm had already existed before 1856 and owned by a Mr Armstrong.
1861...On government advice, and a terrible disaster at the factory, such factories were to be moved from the populated areas and Pursall had acquired the lease of 4 acres of land at Witton in the parish of Handsworth, 3 miles north-west of Birmingham. Soon after Kynoch became a partner.
1863, December, the partnership was dissolved and the firm continued as George Kynoch and Co.
1884 becomes a limited company with George Kynoch as MD, but by 1888 there was pressure for him to resign and he did so siting ill-health. It seems he sold his shares, left his wife in England, and went off speculating in South Africa, where he died in 1901.
1918 Kynoch becomes part of Nobel Industries Ltd, but continues to trade under its own name.
1926 ICI formed and Nobel Industries Ltd becomes a part. It is said that the acquisition of Kynoch by ICI was an "afterthought" as its main concern was to obtain Nobel.
1962 IMI is formed as a wholly owned subsidiary of the British Conglomerate ICI Plc. The largest company in IMI now being Kynoch Metals.
2007/8 ICI acquired by Dutch multinational firm AkzoNobel.
So the original firm could be attributed to a Mr Armstrong, the land at Witton was actually acquired by Pursall, and the link between IMI and George Kynoch is very tenuous!
It is fitting that it has always been known as Kynochs in memory of the women and children who lost their lives in the explosions.
This is a very long thread, and I would like to draw together some info so that other can rubbish or correct if it is wrong. There seems that over the years, since the middle of the 1800s, some confusion has crept in. Take for example the never to be trusted Wikipedia....here is the reference to IMI plc...
"The Company was founded by Scottish entrepreneur George Kynoch who opened a percussion cap factory in Witton, West Midlands in 1862, trading as Kynoch...."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMI_plc
1856 George Kynoch joins Messrs Pursall and Philips, percussion cap manufacturers in Whittall Street, after being employed at a Birmingham bank. The firm had already existed before 1856 and owned by a Mr Armstrong.
1861...On government advice, and a terrible disaster at the factory, such factories were to be moved from the populated areas and Pursall had acquired the lease of 4 acres of land at Witton in the parish of Handsworth, 3 miles north-west of Birmingham. Soon after Kynoch became a partner.
1863, December, the partnership was dissolved and the firm continued as George Kynoch and Co.
1884 becomes a limited company with George Kynoch as MD, but by 1888 there was pressure for him to resign and he did so siting ill-health. It seems he sold his shares, left his wife in England, and went off speculating in South Africa, where he died in 1901.
1918 Kynoch becomes part of Nobel Industries Ltd, but continues to trade under its own name.
1926 ICI formed and Nobel Industries Ltd becomes a part. It is said that the acquisition of Kynoch by ICI was an "afterthought" as its main concern was to obtain Nobel.
1962 IMI is formed as a wholly owned subsidiary of the British Conglomerate ICI Plc. The largest company in IMI now being Kynoch Metals.
2007/8 ICI acquired by Dutch multinational firm AkzoNobel.
So the original firm could be attributed to a Mr Armstrong, the land at Witton was actually acquired by Pursall, and the link between IMI and George Kynoch is very tenuous!
It is fitting that it has always been known as Kynochs in memory of the women and children who lost their lives in the explosions.
IMI Kynoch Works, Witton in 1963. Image from the Birmingham Mail Archives. Viv.
Pedrocut
Master Barmmie
An unusual place to take the photo, can we locate the position from which it was taken?
m.whitbrook
brownhillian
yes he worked in the Lightening fastener with me.with his knowledge helped me build the slider fasteners mcs ,i worked in the devolpment tool room next to the main tool room. i had just finished my apprentice ship, this was s great job.Believe me i loved every minute of my working days in there .i built 3 of these machines and it was mind bogling at times.but they worked well .when i first went in there the manager said i am going to make one of these machines ,wich as an example ,he took me on the shop floor and showed me the one working,but i though to my self ive got no chance of doing this,but i even surprised my self ,i just knuckled down to the task in hand....john was a real nice guy i often wondered what happened to him
Yep, I was told it was a water treatment works, a first attempt to clean the river. It produced bags of fertiliser, that I assume were the product of the sedimentation tanks seen in the photo. I understand that it was a bit short lived, as there was metal contaminates in the sludge. I have faded memory of my dad having a bag of it, and it did small a bit rank. It would be nice to find out more about the place.
The plant is just down from Witton Station, towards Aston Station and set between the river Tame and the Railway embankment.
Attachments
Pedrocut
Master Barmmie
I have started a Thread for the great River Tame. There is a clip from Nov 1908 of the opening of the Witton Pumping Station.
https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/index.php?threads/the-river-tame.48458/
Pedrocut
Master Barmmie
I was presuming that the tanks would be part of the Water Works, but they are not visible on the 1938 OS Map. Maybe omitted as a security measure?
devonjim
master brummie
Certainly water treatment, there were similar facilities in Amington Rd Yardley in 1960's to treat the effluent from the chrome, nickel and copper electro plating processes at Wilmot Breeden. I remember being taken on a visit to IMI from school in 1957ish to see the titanium(or was it tungsten?) manufacturing plant.
