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Inner Ring Road

hi viv, thanks for that, its refreshing to see what the city farthers had in mind for us, all those years ago, forward is the name of this great city, kind reguards sidwho
 
I'm sure someone will be able to tell us what was and wasn't done Viv, it seems to me as if there is quite a lot of it in place though.
Sue
 
6918 said:
The section for Colmore Row thankfully never happened anyway.
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Yes I thought that when I first loooked at the map.

The bit in the bottom right happened (near where it says Sheet 15 and Sheet 16).

This became Jennens Road, and the roundabout at the end of it became Masshouse Circus.

Of course Masshouse Circus has now been knocked down and the whole area around there is being redeveloped.

The area is now called "Eastside" and the new Eastside City Park has just opened in that area.

I have been taking many pictures of that area to keep a historic record of the changes.
 
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Some of the surviving parts of the Inner Ring Roads. Note that the council is planning on refurbishing the Queensway tunnels this summer.

Queensway tunnel from Great Charles Street Queensway


The other side of the footbridge


The Ringway Centre - Smallbrook Queensway - junction changed in the last decade - removal of subways etc - junction with Hurst Street



Paradise Circus Queensway - due for redevelopment in the next couple of years
 
Thanks for the pics Guilbert and Ellbrown.
It said on the Midlands news tonight that the Queensway tunnels will be closed for 6 weeks in the school summer holidays, so July and August, to try to minimise disruption.
Sue
 
No problem.

The artwork in the tunnels is a bit dated. The tunnel under Chamberlain Square has those Birmingham heart symbols. Do they even still use that?

One thing with the Queensway tunnels that if you are in a car, the analogue radio doesn't work until you leave the tunnel. Wonder if digital radio works down there?

The tunnels are a useful shortcut from Bristol Street to the Aston Expressway, if you are leaving Birmingham north by car or coach.
 
Thanks for everyone's comments. When I first saw the map it made me think what a mammoth exercise this was, all in the name of 'improvement'. Simon, I agree with you about the Colmore Row section - when you see the architecture which has survived just in that one short stretch it makes you realise what could have been saved had some of the development not taken place. All very well to say that I know given that this was an attempt to modernise the city centre. However I do wonder how much was useful/essential/a genuine improvement. Can't quite get my head around what were the real benefits? It mentions on the map it was to improve health, electric, water, gas supply, local government provision etc. Afraid it's all a bit before my time.

The other thing about this system is, does anyone else confuse the names of the 'ringways', 'circuses', 'queensways' etc. Or is it just me? Viv.
 
I find it interesting that this map is dated 1946, yet the work did not actually happen till the late 60s or early 70s.

I do think there was a period after the war where it was felt trains were on their way out (Beeching) and the car was king.

You also have to remember that many of these Victorian buildings (that we all now love) were very dirty in the 50s and 60s due to chimneys, coal fires, factories etc.

People must have thought lets rid ourselves of these "dirty" Victorian buildings and build "modern" clean buildings like the old Bull ring, Rotunda, the 70s library etc.

Now of course we have cleaned up the Victorian buildings and they look grand, and many of the 70s buildings have either been knocked down, like the Bull Ring, or are going to be knocked down, like the 70s library.

It is just a pity we cant bring back some of the fine buildings that were knocked down in building the ring road, like the Joshia Mason college near the council house.

And of course the council are trying to reduce the imapct of the "concrete collar" (inner ring road) by removing parts of it (like in front of New St station), or make it more pleasaant for pedestrians by improving crossings etc.

I think the biggest problem all this 70s redevelopment caused was the feeling that Birmingham was a "concrete city" and an unpleasant place to visit or work in.

I help on the Trip Advisor web site a lot, and it always amazes me the negatvie comments about Birmingham when anyone expresses an interest in coming to visit the city.

I think this negative reputation could take decades to change, if it ever does.
 
guilbert53 said:
I help on the Trip Advisor web site a lot, and it always amazes me the negatvie comments about Birmingham when anyone expresses an interest in coming to visit the city.

I think this negative reputation could take decades to change, if it ever does.
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At risk of being off topic I have to add that when Linda told her friends she was moving to Birmingham they were horrified. Since then they have visited and thoroughly enjoyed their time spent as we show them the delights of Brum and its environs - Brindley Place, Bull Ring etc etc never fail to impress. Linda is a tremendous advocate for her adopted place of work and though we live outside the City boundary she nonetheless promotes (and defends) the benefits of living close to and working in, Birmingham to all and sundry. Seeing the city through her eyes has lead me to view it in a more beneficial light though I have always been proud of Brum and its heritage.
 
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Yes Guilbert, it's an unfortunate legacy from the 1960s. That's an interesting point you make about the 1948 map. But judging by the amount of land which is marked on it to be acquired, maybe there were significant delays in acquiring that land. When I left B'ham in the early 80s, the old buildings were mostly very dirty and unappealing with their architectural features hidden under so much grime. The Birmingham I see now in photos of those same buildings, well what a pleasant surprise. It needs a long and continuous PR job to get the message across, which I think is where the history of the city and surrounding areas is an incredibly strong selling point. And tourists love it. Glad you're able to have an input into promoting the new image. Viv.
 
Bernie D'Boult said:
At risk of being off topic I have to add that when Linda told her friends she was moving to Birmingham they were horrified.
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Same happened to me.

I was born in London just over 60 years ago (1949). I lived and worked in London for the first 30 years of my life.

I worked for a huge computer company (one of the biggest in the world) and in the very late 1970s (1979) they decided to open a new office on the Hagley Road and asked for people to come and work there.

My marriage was in a shaky position so my wife and I decided agreed to move from London to Birmingham.

Like Linda you mention, my colleagues were horrified and many of them tried to talk me put of moving.

But I moved to Birmingham in late 1979 (to Four Oaks) but then got divorced a few years later and now live in Shirley, Solihull (so not quite Birmingham).

I got out and about and got to know the city and its history very well, so I know probably know more about Birmingham than my wife who was born here.

I go out with my camera a lot and have taken many pictures of the city centre and the suburbs.

I cant say I love the city, to me there are far to many areas of it that are average, or even very poor, with many areas (some near the city centre) full of small factories and small boring offices.

But I do promote it on places like Trip Advisor, even though it is often hard work.

I have taken many interesting historic pictures of Birmingham.

Here is a set of pictures I took in the 1980s of the area around Broad St while they were redeveloping the whole area including the Convention Centre and the Symphony Hall

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1054565

And here are the pictures I am currently taking of the Eastside area redevelopment

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1024483

And here is a set of pictures I took in the area behind Snow Hill station, which to me was a very sad walk and an example of how Birmingham does not look after its buildings.

https://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1415172
.
 
I read somewhere today, that when the Queensway tunnels get refurbished this summer, they will do something to allow radio and mobile signals go in the tunnels under the city!

Viv - I believe I heard somewhere that when the Queen opened the Inner Ring Road, the powers that be decided to rename the Ringway to Queensway! I'm assuming that the Queen's car rode around it in the '70s.


Over the last year or so, during the Bus Interchange works, Moor Street Queensway was returned to being both directions, rather than just one way. Crossing junctions were moved.
Recently the crossing junction with James Watt Queensway (bottom of Jennens Road) was just done up! Some roads such as The Priory Queensway, are now supposed to be for buses only. But some cars get through!
 
Ell, I saw the Queen go around there in the 70s - must have been late-1970s. I was working at Alpha Tower and she and Prince Phillip passed beneath us in her car (we had a fantastic view on the 24th floor). We could see into the glass roofed car as it travelled down below. In the preparations on the days before her visit, the whole of the area around the Town Hall was a hive of activity being transformed with potted trees. What does that say about the brutal 1960s architecture when it needs to be softened and dressed up with masses of potted plants ? Funny thing is we hadn't realised she was there to open the new road system! Viv.
 
Whenever the council makes changes to the city centre road network, they have the old trees planted a decade ago out. And once the new road layout is complete, they plant new ones!

Last time the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh had a walkabout in Victoria Square during the Diamond Jubilee (was in July). They got the train into Snow Hill, then their car took them down Colmore Row to Victoria Square.
 
Interesting BBC4 docu about how after the war planning such as depicted here on this thread relating to the ring road came about. It's stated that after the war people wanted to forget the past and look to the future. Victorian buildings were seen as old hat and over the top and because they were mostly covered in soot became ripe for redevelopment, also how groups such as the Victorian society came about to protect our heritage..

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01rd37j/Heritage!_The_Battle_for_Britains_Past_Broken_Propylaeums/




[url]https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p014fxzv


[/URL]
 
guilbert53 said:
I think the biggest problem all this 70s redevelopment caused was the feeling that Birmingham was a "concrete city" and an unpleasant place to visit or work in.

I help on the Trip Advisor web site a lot, and it always amazes me the negatvie comments about Birmingham when anyone expresses an interest in coming to visit the city.
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The same happens me i'm afraid. I was over for a 5 days visit last weekend and as ever I had a great time, usual story of not having enough time to do all I wanted to do! When I say where i'm going or where I have been I get the usual blank looks, "Birmingham , that's not really a tourist city" or "You go over there a lot, what's so interesting about it?". I also think the tourist board market the city badly or often not at all as an interesting place to visit.

Simon
 
Very interesting thread. Good to hear comments from non Birmingham born ppl.
I was born here and I'll aways defend Brum, its part of my history, you get a fondness for places you know and remember.

Most people would agree mistakes were made in the 60' with the concrete - which after all it is a cheap and quick way to re-build. And cost were very important. The concrete and (what were then, "modern") 60's shapes are now dated of course - in the 60's it didnt look so bad :-)

Interesting, to remind ourselves that the buildings were dirty (and possibly costly to maintain ?). (In retrospect) we look back today with longing for great buildings long since gone. And hopefully we learn that it is worth looking after our historic buildings. Dirty or not.
 
Great link Brumgum, explains a lot about post-war feelings which I hadn't appreciated. When I think back to the 1960s I now remember that was the feeling amongst people. A sort of "what do you want to keep that for it's so dowdy and old-fashioned!" And when I bought old pine furniture in the 70s and 80s my mum exclaimed "thrown better away!" She was wedded to modern at any cost. So I can understand the feelings that people must have had about a new start. So many years of limping along. Modern architecture must have seemed so fresh and new. But we've now paid the price; hopefully we've learned from past mistakes.

6918 - I agree, the promotion of B'ham has a long way to go. Other industrialised cities have done it, so why not B'ham? After all, it didn't get to be so prosperous in the 18th and 19th centuries by not promoting it's virtues. Viv (now stepping down from soapbox!)
 
When people don't have pre conceived ideas about the place i find it makes a difference. I have a Canadian cousin who loves coming here and loves Brum, i must admit i excel in being her guide because i love the place also.
 
brumgum said:
When people don't have pre conceived ideas about the place i find it makes a difference. I have a Canadian cousin who loves coming here and loves Brum, i must admit i excel in being her guide because i love the place also.
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In my case that is certainly true, some time I must put together a post as to why someone with absolutely no connections to Brum (by now I have a network of friends of course but not at first) took such an interest in the city...

Simon
 
6918 said:
In my case that is certainly true, some time I must put together a post as to why someone with absolutely no connections to Brum (by now I have a network of friends of course but not at first) took such an interest in the city...

Simon
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Would look forward to hearing that!....
 
Here we have Sir Herbert Manzoni demonstrating in 1955 to a group of Dublin City Council delegates the virtues of the proposed Inner Ring Road.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1363979867.710264.jpg


This is the development of the Ring Road alongside St. Chads around 1960. With the exception of St. Chads, all the buildings shown in the photo would disappear.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1363979956.428308.jpg


And a panoramic view in two parts of the development all around the Inner Ring Road in 1971. I do remember Birmingham as one gigantic building site at this time. The first section shows an enormous hole through which you can see the New Street to Bristol railway line. ATV studies is in the process of being built in the background - no Alpha Tower yet. The second section shows the Suffolk Street end of the Great Charles Street tunnel.

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1363979979.543419.jpgImageUploadedByTapatalk1363979991.387483.jpg

Viv.
 
Here we have Sir Herbert Manzoni demonstrating in 1955 to a group of Dublin City Council delegates the virtues of the proposed Inner Ring Road.

It's a shame someone didn't take that big stick he's wielding and beat him with it!(erm, i mean point out his mistakes)
 
Ha ha Brumgum. Think the same might have crossed the mind of that lady on the right in the fox furs! Viv.
 
I watched that Heritage programme last night (also saw the first two episodes).

Sounds like Victorian buildings in the 50s and 60s were hated, and were very dirty, probably due to all the smoke and dust that came from chimneys.
They even mentioned that all the major cities of the UK had Inner Ring Roads built Post War.

There was an article about Manzoni a few weeks back in the Birmingham Post (not sure if it's online or not).
 
Think this might be the article Ell.

https://www.birminghampost.net/news/west-midlands-news/2013/03/08/sir-herbert-manzoni-the-man-who-changed-the-face-of-birmingham-65233-32950384/

It's so difficult to see Manzoni in a good light, especially given that little he put in place will even have survived before long. And Birmingham was not alone when it came to poor post-war town planning either. In the 1960s many of those coming out of architectural colleges would have been fired up by radical, modern design and I suppose this climate would have been perfect for Manzoni to forge ahead with his ideas. Like the article says, there would have been little consultation about the plans. If there had been, we certainly would have a very different city centre today. Viv.
 
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