-
Welcome to this forum . We are a worldwide group with a common interest in Birmingham and its history. While here, please follow a few simple rules. We ask that you respect other members, thank those who have helped you and please keep your contributions on-topic with the thread.
We do hope you enjoy your visit. BHF Admin Team
HS2 progress 2020 and beyond
- Thread starter mikejee
- Start date
Richard Dye
master brummie
I would say that the biggest problem HS2 has is how poorly the idea was marketed. The promise of shaving 20 minutes off a train journey to London was never going to excite many.
That alone caused confusion over what HS2 is actually for. We have an outdated railway system that has seen remarkable growth in passengers. In 1997, passenger journeys totalled 800 million. By 2019, that figure had doubled to 1.75 billion on the same-sized railway network. The network had not seen these sorts of numbers since the 1920s. Before that, we had the Beeching cuts that decimated the rail network.
The West Coast Main Line must be one of the busiest in Europe, yet so many trains compete for track space. Lots of these trains all travel at different speeds i.e., you have the 125mph express trains running with 60mph freight and local services running in between. It must be a logistical nightmare.
The key idea of HS2 was to get all of the 125mph trains off the existing lines and on to a dedicated track so they can all run at the same speed. This would then free up capacity to run more local trains.
Just saying '20 mins off the London to Birmingham route' does not simply cut it
That alone caused confusion over what HS2 is actually for. We have an outdated railway system that has seen remarkable growth in passengers. In 1997, passenger journeys totalled 800 million. By 2019, that figure had doubled to 1.75 billion on the same-sized railway network. The network had not seen these sorts of numbers since the 1920s. Before that, we had the Beeching cuts that decimated the rail network.
The West Coast Main Line must be one of the busiest in Europe, yet so many trains compete for track space. Lots of these trains all travel at different speeds i.e., you have the 125mph express trains running with 60mph freight and local services running in between. It must be a logistical nightmare.
The key idea of HS2 was to get all of the 125mph trains off the existing lines and on to a dedicated track so they can all run at the same speed. This would then free up capacity to run more local trains.
Just saying '20 mins off the London to Birmingham route' does not simply cut it
Completely agree that that was/ should have been the aim of it. But directly the thing was cut to being just London -Birmingham, and even more when some bean counter thought , for a time, that passengers should change trains on the edge of London, then it became a bit of a joke, The only hope is thta at sometime the scheme is expanded to other routes, else it will end up like the A303, with a fast bit ending in lomg queues at the end
Lloyd
master brummie
It is almost as if they wanted it to fail.
Richard Dye
master brummie
Absolutely agree! There are a couple of things going, the increase in travelers (and what is the future looking like) and time. From a distance it looks like you have a lot of traffic at rush hours and then quiet, unutilized assets, very in efficient. As many progressive producers do, manage their shift patterns. It’s a change but it is fast and cost effective. This is not 1970, or 90 or 2010, workplace hours can and are different. If you reduce (spread out) train density on time service and traveler capacity will improve for very little expenditure.
Billions and billions are being spent and you are not done yet by a long shot. What is the believable finish date and cost? For 20 mins on London to Birmingham, don’t think so! What about Manchester, Liverpool, Edinburgh etc al?
MWS
from Bham
Don't think it's going to be finished before 2035 and with the amount of money already spent it has to be finished no matter what the cost.
Not defending anyone but it isn't easy building projects like this in Britain. Everyone wants the benefits but no one wants the inconvenience.
The same people who moan, form committees and take constructors/government to court about a new road, a new stadium or even new telephone mast being built near them will happily jump on a plane without a thought for the people that plane and the airport it takes off from effects.
Not defending anyone but it isn't easy building projects like this in Britain. Everyone wants the benefits but no one wants the inconvenience.
The same people who moan, form committees and take constructors/government to court about a new road, a new stadium or even new telephone mast being built near them will happily jump on a plane without a thought for the people that plane and the airport it takes off from effects.
Good point Richard. Extending it to Manchester, Liverpool, York and Edinburgh in my opinion would have had a significant positive impact upon the West Coast Mainline, The Midlands Main Line and the East Coast Maine line, increasing capacity significantly.
Richard Dye
master brummie
I think you/they need to put the brutal facts on the table and cast opinions aside. Look at the Chunnel, 30 years on and it’s still not meeting expectations (or where they pipe dreams). HS2 is 5 or 6 times the Chunnel if you are lucky.
Something has to be finished but certainly not with the current costs and deliverables or lack thereof!
Richard Dye
master brummie
So sad, 9 or 10 years late let alone the short fall in expectations to performance (results). I hope the powers that be can bring themselves to relook their methodology.i believe the original date for when the station would be completed and open to the public was 2026
Mark Tooze
master brummie
Yes. Enormous. As originally planned , and still being built the station was designed to handle up to 6 trains an hour between Birmingham and London ( 3 each way), as I understand it. ( https://data.parliament.uk/Deposite...-1298/P2C37_Journey_times_and_frequencies.pdf). Presumably this will be similar to that now the system has been castrated , with Manchester and Leeds destinations removed. So this enormous station will have one train every 10 mins or so. Would reckon new St is about half the size with 40-53 trains an hour
Puts it in perspective Mike. You have to wonder what/who gains in all of this.
I hope the view of the old Curzon Street building won't be completely obliterated. But I doubt that has been given any sort of priority.
I hope the view of the old Curzon Street building won't be completely obliterated. But I doubt that has been given any sort of priority.
Richard Dye
master brummie
Is the schedule for 6 trains planned for most of the day?
Richard Dye
master brummie
Is there a new estimate? I would imagine the trains would be scheduled around high traffic times, if so what happens to the equipment in slow traffic times, if that had been published.
Eric Gibson
master brummie
Seems to have a lot of red suited ants wandering aimlessly about. 
that could explain why its many years behind schedule and millions if not billions of pounds over budgetSeems to have a lot of red suited ants wandering aimlessly about.
lyn
just to make it clear i have no objections to progress it has been happening since the year dot but projects like this that have taken so much away from people is not my idea of being worth it...so what is it we have we lost..?
people forced out of their homes and businesses giving them a great deal of upset and stress
ancient woodlands lost
damage to our wildlife
burial grounds lost
heritage pubs and buildings lost
years of general upheavel if you live near to the construction routes of HS2
i guess those who rave about HS2 are not affected by any of the above and i wonder if they were would they still feel its a great plan...i am not directly affected but i still think its just another white elephant and have no time for it...just my opinion
lyn
people forced out of their homes and businesses giving them a great deal of upset and stress
ancient woodlands lost
damage to our wildlife
burial grounds lost
heritage pubs and buildings lost
years of general upheavel if you live near to the construction routes of HS2
i guess those who rave about HS2 are not affected by any of the above and i wonder if they were would they still feel its a great plan...i am not directly affected but i still think its just another white elephant and have no time for it...just my opinion
lyn
Richard Dye
master brummie
Unfortunately Lyn, your opine is very well placed! While I am not impacted personally, watching through these threads a simple description might be: you are not getting what your original expectations were (by far), at a much higher cost and much later date. Does anyone know what the final date and costs are?
MWS
from Bham
Everything that has ever been built has destroyed something else.
People who travel anywhere don't care about the people that that road/railway/airport they're using affected when it was built or worry about the lost ancient woodland that used to be where there house is.
You can only try to keep the loss/upheaval to a minimum. If that has been done with HS2 I don't know.
People who travel anywhere don't care about the people that that road/railway/airport they're using affected when it was built or worry about the lost ancient woodland that used to be where there house is.
You can only try to keep the loss/upheaval to a minimum. If that has been done with HS2 I don't know.