Gower Street Boys and Girls Schools

[Morturn]

We love to hear your school stories. Schooling and education are a significant chapter in our lives. The experiences of school and the relationships with the teaching staff shape us significantly and are part of our history.

A lot of people had very positive experiences at school. Importantly others did not. Together we need to write these stories into history, so that we may celebrate successes and learn from failures.

It is important to remind ourselves that this forum is a public platform that can be viewed by anyone across the globe. We ask our members to think carefully what they write. Tell us and others about your experiences good or bad. But also consider others when you do so there could be living relatives, friends or family who will see the relationship with these people differently from you. Adverse comments could be seen as defamatory, and even give rise to libel claims.

If you have experienced events at schools that you see as adverse, by all means say so, but please ensure you protect the identity of the people involved and in so doing you will protect yourself and this forum. Use phrases like “the maths teacher…” or “Miss X…” etc. If in doubt, the moderators are here to help.

So, lets have your school stories, good or bad. Just remember that it is the story of your school years we want to hear; it is not a platform for revenge.

 

[Morturn]

Thread unlocked.

 

[forward]

Hi John.

My time was circa 56 - 60. Mainly in the building lower down in Guildford St. Although for a time was upgraded to main block as maths was much better than other subjects. Use to go back of the church for pottery and metalwork classes.

Ray

 

[adap2it]

I was there 51-53 before going to MSA. I do recall having a science class, which I believe was on the Lozells Rd. I remember making an alcohol thermometer.
Dave A

 

[Ozbrum]

Hi

The link to the photo appears to be broken.

But... I must ask this... Are you one of the very large Turvey family? I believe several of the lads went to Gower Boys School.
I am reluctant to call it Gower Street as it wasn't even on that road. I went to the school in the early seventies and Steven was in my class.

John

Hi John
TOPSYTURVEY
Is my sister and yes her husband is part of the large Turkey family from Wheeler st.
I knew some of the older Turvey boys but not your mate Stephen....
Anyway I will pass on a note about you to her.

I lived in Hamilton for a year in 1974 before moving on to Australia...

All the best

Albert Clayton.

 

[Morturn]

I knew a lad called Paul Rook who said he was at Gower Street School in the mind 60’s. He had a younger brother called Carl.

 

[TOPSYTURVEY]

Hi John
TOPSYTURVEY
Is my sister and yes her husband is part of the large Turkey family from Wheeler st.
I knew some of the older Turvey boys but not your mate Stephen....
Anyway I will pass on a note about you to her.

I lived in Hamilton for a year in 1974 before moving on to Australia...

All the best

Albert Clayton.

Yes Stephen is my Hubbys Younger Brother .

 

[Banjo]

Hi Lyn you must be up bright and early.
It is 5:51 pm here in New Zealand.
Thank you for the map!
I am afraid you are incorrect about the school being on Gower Street. The map doesn't tell you that Gower Street finishes at Guilford Street and the Annex building was on the corner of Clifford Walk and Guilford Street as shown on the map (attached).

I was using Google maps and looking at the new school without realizing it was 2008. How times change!

I am a little vague on Mark. It sounds as if he would have been in my year and I have a pretty good memory. Maybe he was in a different stream. As I said my classroom was in the main building. Perhaps his was in the Annex building.

Also, Do you remember Carol? Can't think of her surname. She was in the chess team. Gower Boys played at Lozells Girls School (organized by Mr. Philips). I was on board one playing Carol. We already knew each other socially.
She gave me a good game.

I have already attached this map; but I have edited it. I was relying on nearly forty years of memory for the exact position of the Annex building. We often had to walk from one building to the other and I really didn't think it was that far away.

I Emigrated from the UK in 1995. I didn't really live locally. I lived in Tower Road, Aston; only part of which still exists today. I heard lots of bad stuff about Upper Thomas Street School from lads in my street and decided to give it a miss.

John.

Hi John, I was there 1957-61. Teachers I remember there were Headmasters Mr Matts & Mr J.T.D Ball, also Mr Williams, Wally Eyton, Mr Dean, Mr Ward and Mr Cross. I made this map a few months back showing where the school buildings were at that time over a 2020 Google view. Gower St extended through to William St then so, at least part of the school was in Gower St.

 

[Astoness]

hi banjo thanks for the map that confirms what i thought

lyn

 

[John_Gower_Street_pupil]

Hi John, I was there 1957-61. Teachers I remember there were Headmasters Mr Matts & Mr J.T.D Ball, also Mr Williams, Wally Eyton, Mr Dean, Mr Ward and Mr Cross. I made this map a few months back showing where the school buildings were at that time over a 2020 Google view. Gower St extended through to William St then so, at least part of the school was in Gower St.
View attachment 155240

Hi Banjo

Thanks for the map.

When I was there the Annex building (the lower of the three shown on your map) was not on Gower Street; but on the corner of Guilford Street and Clifford Walk. Are you saying that Clifford Walk used to be Gower Street?

As you can see there is an angular change at the junction of Gower and Guilford Street. That is where Gower Street ends. I wouldn't be asking except that It always puzzled me why it was called Gower Street School.

Lyn may have provided me with the answer recently. Over the history of the school, which appears to be anything but simple, there were other buildings that have been demolished for one reason or another. Perhaps one of those was actually on Gower Street sometime in the late 1800s.

John

 

[John_Gower_Street_pupil]

Yes Stephen is my Hubbys Younger Brother .

Hi

Thank you for that.

I would be interested in knowing if Stephen carried on with his sketches.
And what he ended up doing for a living.

I became a draughtsman and used my flair for creating artistic impressions which accompanied my designs.

 

[John_Gower_Street_pupil]

I could give you a few names in my year. Maybe Mark might remember them.

Tony McLaughlin (and Woody his surname was Woods and I can't think of his forename, they were best mates)
Mark Gardner (saw him play at Aston Villa juniors)
Maurice Powell (also went to Holte Comp), Noel Davies (another Holte)
Steven Turvey, John Barr, Andrew Pavlov, Martin Broom, Dennis Watkins, John Lutwhitz, Alan Dabbs.
And if he was in my class he would never forget Barrington Green.

I believe Carol was the same age as me 1955/6. Also Anne Tussio her best friend went to Lozells Girls and lived in Berners Street. Anne's younger sister Margaret went to Holte Comprehensive. I believe they all lived in Lozells at one time.

A couple more of my classmates have come to mind:

Eaton O'Connor - He was another who went on to Holte Comp. He was always immaculately dressed. A real lady-killer.
And there was a lad called Mosquito who also went on to Holte. Never knew his first name. There were a few other African lads... My brain is working on them. Oh and a few Indians too.

 

[John_Gower_Street_pupil]

Hi John.

My time was circa 56 - 60. Mainly in the building lower down in Guildford St. Although for a time was upgraded to main block as maths was much better than other subjects. Use to go back of the church for pottery and metalwork classes.

Ray

Thanks Ray

I found it strange that none of the early posts referred to any building other than the main block.

 

[pjmburns]

The name "Clifford Walk" does not seem to be on maps until the 1970s.
1950s map

 

[John_Gower_Street_pupil]

The name "Clifford Walk" does not seem to be on maps until the 1970s.
1950s map
View attachment 155262

Hi Janice

Thank you for that.

I must say, being a draughtsman, if I were to put street names on a map; I would put the name central too.
The map clearly shows the name Gower Street placed equidistant between Wheeler Street and Guilford Street which suggests that Clifford Walk did exist. It just isn't named.

This is not the only Street that doesn't appear on maps; there are dozens of them.

I appreciate your input.

Have you read my comment about the history of the school since the 1800s?

 

[John_Gower_Street_pupil]

Hi Banjo

Thanks for the map.

When I was there the Annex building (the lower of the three shown on your map) was not on Gower Street; but on the corner of Guilford Street and Clifford Walk. Are you saying that Clifford Walk used to be Gower Street?

As you can see there is an angular change at the junction of Gower and Guilford Street. That is where Gower Street ends. I wouldn't be asking except that It always puzzled me why it was called Gower Street School.

Lyn may have provided me with the answer recently. Over the history of the school, which appears to be anything but simple, there were other buildings that have been demolished for one reason or another. Perhaps one of those was actually on Gower Street sometime in the late 1800s.

John

Well...

There are maps and there are maps. They appear to be only as good as the cartographer.
I found a 2015 map that has Gower Street going all the way from Berners Street to William Street. It may have been copied from a much earlier map. And an older Google map has Clifford Walk on it.

I went to Gower Boys in the early 70s and Clifford Walk was there.
Below is a snip of the 1888 map that Lyn kindly directed me to showing all three school buildings.
The workshop building is to the right of the Church on Lozells Road confirming Banjo's graphic.

As I mentioned to Janice, the street names are more often than not, equidistant from each end of the road on maps.
So I concede that the Annex building was on the corner of Guildford and Gower streets as shown above.
Now I am interested in finding out when the last section of Gower Street changed it's name to Clifford Walk.
I suspect the change happened well before the 70s Janice because there was nothing new about Clifford Walk when I went to school there.



It appears that Gower Street is being eaten from both ends. I am not so interested in Old Postway as that doesn't have anything to do with the school.

 

[John_Gower_Street_pupil]

Well...

There are maps and there are maps. They appear to be only as good as the cartographer.
I found a 2015 map that has Gower Street going all the way from Berners Street to William Street. It may have been copied from a much earlier map. And an older Google map has Clifford Walk on it.

I went to Gower Boys in the early 70s and Clifford Walk was there.
Below is a snip of the 1888 map that Lyn kindly directed me to showing all three school buildings.
The workshop building is to the right of the Church on Lozells Street confirming Banjo's graphic.
View attachment 155266
As I mentioned to Janice, the street names are more often than not, equidistant from each end of the road on maps.
So I concede that the Annex building was on the corner of Guildford and Gower streets as shown above.
Now I am interested in finding out when the last section of Gower Street changed it's name to Clifford Walk.
I suspect the change happened well before the 70s Janice because there was nothing new about Clifford Walk when I went to school there.

View attachment 155267

It appears that Gower Street is being eaten from both ends. I am not so interested in Old Postway as that doesn't have anything to do with the school.

I got ambitious today...

I googled Clifford Walk and one of the results took me to the Birmingham Planning website.
I managed to ascertain the second Clifford Walk development which received planning permission in 2010.

They didn't appear to have anything else on it.
So I left a message and my email address for them to get back to me.
And because of the pandemic there might be quite a delay. I'll keep you posted on that

​

​

 

[Michael_Ingram]

There is no mystery here. The whole area was reconstructed at the end of th 60s. Street were recreated, new ones built although they did seem to do this using the sewage, electricity and gas layout without changing it too much. New street names were created, eg Guildford Drive, and I assume Clifford Walk. I have a map of the area from 1871, there is the small school which became Gower Street infants but there doesn't yet seem to be Gower Street boys school. I am sorry I can't upload it as the resolution is too low. If I find a better copy later I will upload it.
As I said 'boys school'. In the 40s and 50s and before the war older boys went to Gower Street, older girls went to Lozells Street. Attached is a photo of Gower Street and the corner of Guildford Street (the mysterious Clifford Walk bit). Notice the name of the street is Gower Street.

 

[John_Gower_Street_pupil]

There is no mystery here. The whole area was reconstructed at the end of th 60s. Street were recreated, new ones built although they did seem to do this using the sewage, electricity and gas layout without changing it too much. New street names were created, eg Guildford Drive, and I assume Clifford Walk. I have a map of the area from 1871, there is the small school which became Gower Street infants but there doesn't yet seem to be Gower Street boys school. I am sorry I can't upload it as the resolution is too low. If I find a better copy later I will upload it.
As I said 'boys school'. In the 40s and 50s and before the war older boys went to Gower Street, older girls went to Lozells Street. Attached is a photo of Gower Street and the corner of Guildford Street (the mysterious Clifford Walk bit). Notice the name of the street is Gower Street.
View attachment 155274

Thank you Michael.

Is that 'Furnace' Lane hiding behind the street sign? It doesn't appear on any map that I have seen.
If this is the corner of Gower and Guilford, then today's Clifford Walk would be behind the photographer.

And the school out of shot, also behind and to the right of the photographer, was the infants school.
Thanks, I wasn't aware of that.

Lyn mentioned the history dating back to the 1800s but it didn't specify the locations of each building.

John.

 

[Michael_Ingram]

Go to Furnace lane thread, post #93 you will see it on a map which also names ‘Clifford Drive” correctly as Gower Street

https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/index.php?threads/furnace-lane.38337/page-5#post-718359

 

[John_Gower_Street_pupil]

Thank you Michael

I stand corrected... So the shop is opposite the school and the photo is looking towards William Street. I had it in my mind that it was looking in the opposite direction.

Appreciate that.

John.

 

[John_Gower_Street_pupil]

I have just been looking at the Primary School I attended and noticed the Public Swimming Baths on Victoria Street, Aston.

I remember Mr. Eyton walking us from Guilford Street in an orderly fashion to the baths weekly. Gosh it's amazing recalling things you had forgotten about.

Thinking about it now though; it makes you wonder why we even bothered, It took half the lesson walking there and back. And I also recall spending only twenty minutes in the water.

 

[Michael_Ingram]

Attached is scan of a late 19th century linen map. Unfortunately there is no date on the map but as Corporation Street is there replacing Lichfield Street in other parts of the map, it is probably 1890s. Notice the main Gower Street School is not there but the smal lone in Gower Street is. The Gower Street main school does have the look of early 20th century architecture.

 

[John_Gower_Street_pupil]

Attached is scan of a late 19th century linen map. Unfortunately there is no date on the map but as Corporation Street is there replacing Lichfield Street in other parts of the map, it is probably 1890s. Notice the main Gower Street School is not there but the smal lone in Gower Street is. The Gower Street main school does have the look of early 20th century architecture.

Hi Michael

I appreciate the effort.

I wasn't aware that Lozells Road used to be called Lozells Lane. And there wasn't even a Lozells district either.
I always thought that Newtown was a more modern concept and that Aston, where I lived, was on the other side of Birchfield Road only.
Lyn tells me that some buildings were demolished and rebuilt. But I agree with you; it looks like that was the first of the school buildings.

 

[Michael_Ingram]

An interesting section of a map from 1862 (ignore the blue dots) A Gower Street and Hospital Street but no Guildford Street yet (there may be bits)

 

[John_Gower_Street_pupil]

Am I missing something here?
Guilford Street appears to be there but there is no street name; or are you referring to there not being a school?
Chain Walk is there; remember that? The rather steep road around the Guilford Street corner on Lozells Road and almost opposite the school.

What I find fascinating though is that Aston Park was much bigger than I realized. My primary school was on Whitehead road but not the bit shown here. And is that a mass of water that looks like a barrage balloon?

 

[Michael_Ingram]

The top bit is probably Guildford Story bit the next bit down may be Lennox Street

 

[John_Gower_Street_pupil]

Attached is scan of a late 19th century linen map. Unfortunately there is no date on the map but as Corporation Street is there replacing Lichfield Street in other parts of the map, it is probably 1890s. Notice the main Gower Street School is not there but the smal lone in Gower Street is. The Gower Street main school does have the look of early 20th century architecture.

That linen print takes me back...

When I finally left Holte Comp I went looking for a draughting job. I haven't mentioned this before; but my favourite subject at school was Technical Drawing followed very closely by Art.
I digress a wee bit here. I went into the Comprehensive and had a very bad hair day on opening day.
I discovered that I wasn't allowed to do both subjects :-(
I chose Technical Drawing because realistically my job prospects were much higher; but I used to paint in my spare time, mostly on the weekends.

So, I went for a job interview at Cadwallader Shopfitters on Aldridge Road, Great Barr. I was asked to take some artwork with me. By that time my art folder had become quite plentiful. They hung on to my folder after the interview.

Quite a while later, and many other interviews elsewhere, I received a letter in the mail asking me to come in.
I put that down to them returning my artwork; which was in a double elephant sized folder.
Not only did they give me the folder; they gave me the job too.

I had been working there for sometime by now and had gotten used to the awful smell of ammonia. For those of you not in the know already; we used to draw on good quality tracing paper and we had a home made light box emperor size.
There were three fluorescent tubes inside. We would lift the heavy lid and lie the finished drawing face down on a sheet of glass (almost the same size as the box). then we lay a sheet of light sensitive yellow coated paper over the drawing.

Then it was down with the lid and on with the lights. It was a bit of a guessing game when it came to exposure. Somewhere around thirty seconds; we used an analogue timer. Then we had to quickly grab the exposed paper and roll it up and put it into a plywood curing box (another hand made item). This box was obviously longer than the width of paper and less than 12 inches wide and less then twenty-four inches high. Two compartments: upper where we'd put the rolled up paper (to be cured) via a door in the end of the box. And the lower compartment contained half a cup of ammonia; that too had its own door. The divide between upper and lower had holes in it to allow the fumes into the upper chamber.

And after a minute or so; voila a blue print.
Whenever we had to submit a drawing to the council though; it had to be a linen print. So yours truly had to hop on a bus (46?) to Perry Barr with the drawing rolled up in a cardboard tube. And wait in reception. The place was near Lynton Square on the same side of the road and nearer to the dog track than to the square. I shall never remember the name of that place.
It wasn't until decades later that I witnessed a linen print being made. That was here in New Zealand when I worked at Pacific Aerospace; I used to do the prints myself then.

 

[John_Gower_Street_pupil]

The top bit is probably Guildford Story bit the next bit down may be Lennox Street

I remember the latter but not the former.
Don't you find it annoying when they don't label all the roads?

 

[John_Gower_Street_pupil]

Hi Lyn you must be up bright and early.
It is 5:51 pm here in New Zealand.
Thank you for the map!
I am afraid you are incorrect about the school being on Gower Street. The map doesn't tell you that Gower Street finishes at Guilford Street and the Annex building was on the corner of Clifford Walk and Guilford Street as shown on the map (attached).

I was using Google maps and looking at the new school without realizing it was 2008. How times change!

I am a little vague on Mark. It sounds as if he would have been in my year and I have a pretty good memory. Maybe he was in a different stream. As I said my classroom was in the main building. Perhaps his was in the Annex building.

Also, Do you remember Carol? Can't think of her surname. She was in the chess team. Gower Boys played at Lozells Girls School (organized by Mr. Philips). I was on board one playing Carol. We already knew each other socially.
She gave me a good game.

I have already attached this map; but I have edited it. I was relying on nearly forty years of memory for the exact position of the Annex building. We often had to walk from one building to the other and I really didn't think it was that far away.

I Emigrated from the UK in 1995. I didn't really live locally. I lived in Tower Road, Aston; only part of which still exists today. I heard lots of bad stuff about Upper Thomas Street School from lads in my street and decided to give it a miss.

John.

Hi Lyn

I have been exploring the area on Google using the satellite function and although the date is not shown I surmised it was current. So to check I asked for directions from Lozells Road to Holte School; and I got them!

So I was right when I described the new position of the school when it was rebuilt. And one of the small entrances on Wheeler Street.

I am surprised that I couldn't upload a file that was only 300 kb. I had to reduce it.

You don’t get a second chance to create a first impression.