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Curzon Street Railway Station

  • Thread starter Thread starter speaky
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Here is an image of how the area looks today (see below for the 1889 map for comparison).

You can clearly see the railway lines (which run right across the modern image) and the canal (which run from top right to bottom middle) in the two maps.

As you can see a number of roads in the area have gone or been changed considerably.

Curzon Street runs right across the centre of the map, but has been "chopped off" at the left hand end in the modern map to make Eastside City Park. It is "chopped off" where the Woodman pub and the old Curzon St station are on the corner of Curzon Street and New Canal Street

Also of the 3 roads that run Northwards off Curzon Street in the top right of the old map, only one remains, Cardigan Street. All the new buildings in the top right are BCU (Birmingham City University) after their move from Perry Barr.

Also the two roads in the top left of the old map that go northwards off Curzon Street (Grosvenor St and Fox St) have also partly gone in the modern image. You can still drive down the Northern part of them (off Jennens Road) but cant access them by car off Curzon Street.

Also the left hand end of Banbury Street (bottom left in the old image) has also gone in the modern map. This is near the Eagle and Tun pub.

As I think most of you know, most of the area in the centre of the modern image (which looks like yellow sand / earth) will be the site of the new HS2 station.

Curzon 3.jpg



map c 1889 showing curzon st station area.jpg
 
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I could not find much, in searches, about the horses that worked at Curzon Street - inception to mid 1960's. Most horse threads here on BHF relate to canals or deliveries. However, this link, which covers the North London Railway at Camden must have been similar to that at Curzon Street in many ways.
 
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On passing the other day by train, I did wonder of the excavations near the canal had opened up the pits for the LBR loco shed- can somebody confirm or deny?
 
Radiorails said:
I could not find much, in searches, about the horses that worked at Curzon Street - inception to mid 1960's. Most horse threads here on BHF relate to canals or deliveries. However, this link, which covers the North London Railway at Camden must have been similar to that at Curzon Street in many ways.
Click to expand...


What an interesting link Alan. Not necessarily related to this thread, but does anyone know of a similar Birmingham stabling arrangement for working horses (could be canal or railways etc) ...Edit ....Thanks. Viv.
 
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May I suggest the
Vivienne14 said:
What an interesting link Alan. Not necessarily related to this thread, but does anyone know of a similar Birmingham stabling arrangement for working horses (could be canal or railways etc) If so, let’s have a new thread about it. Thanks. Viv.
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Maybe this is a better home Vivienne?

Birmingham's Working Horses

As recently I've been asking for help genealogically-wise, I thought I should try to redress the balance by posting some historical info. I picked up a book during the summer by Bryan Holden - "Birmingham's Working Horses" - and here are some photos. We all know that there used to be many...
birminghamhistory.co.uk birminghamhistory.co.uk
 
was chatting to dr mike hodder ex bcc archeologist to see if he knew of the turntable that has been found...he did and as you can see from his reply like me he also thinks it will be skipped..think we must accept that in the main the rule of thumb for the powers that be is to destroy rather than preserve..


Hi Lyn



Good to hear from you again, and sorry for delay in replying. Yes, I did hear about this- surprising well-preserved. As you say, it will go. You may remember the former goods yard buildings where Millennium Point is now- there were stables and a warehouse- a missed opportunity to incorporate them into Thinktank rather than demolish them.



Mike
 
I suppose that because this is a history web site - with many passionate people interested in the heritage of Birmingham - that there is a discussion about the artefacts recently unearthed at Curzon Street. However, many sites of interest over the whole country, principally from closed railway lines or disused facilities, have been removed and subsequently lost to make way for houses and tin shed development.
Some of these type of historical items are already preserved for posterity and can be fund on the very large numbers f heritage/preserved steam railways that we have in the UK. Maybe some preservation railway or heritage site could be encouraged to remove and re-site some of the smaller finds - such as the wagon turntables. All that is needed is, of course, is the interest and more importantly the money to achieve it.
Now these finds have become national news there might be interest from elsewhere.
Some former transport relics have found their way from their original locations in the West Midlands to new home: the urinal on the Severn Valley Railway, the tram shelter at Crich and I guess other items as well.
 
Radiorails said:
I suppose that because this is a history web site - with many passionate people interested in the heritage of Birmingham - that there is a discussion about the artefacts recently unearthed at Curzon Street. However, many sites of interest over the whole country, principally from closed railway lines or disused facilities, have been removed and subsequently lost to make way for houses and tin shed development.
Some of these type of historical items are already preserved for posterity and can be fund on the very large numbers f heritage/preserved steam railways that we have in the UK. Maybe some preservation railway or heritage site could be encouraged to remove and re-site some of the smaller finds - such as the wagon turntables. All that is needed is, of course, is the interest and more importantly the money to achieve it.
Now these finds have become national news there might be interest from elsewhere.
Some former transport relics have found their way from their original locations in the West Midlands to new home: the urinal on the Severn Valley Railway, the tram shelter at Crich and I guess other items as well.
Click to expand...
The BBC article (that has been linked to in post 188 does say -

Further excavations are due to take place later this month, with experts looking to record the "historical significance" of the remains and determine whether they can be preserved in their current location.

So maybe there is hope that they can be preserved (probably like so many archaeological sites covered over for protection). I would have thought if they did have 'historical significance' that they would have to be preserved - either on site, or in a museum setting.
 
wow what fantastic drone footage and judi i wished i had your confidence...i guess it all depends on how deep the footings for the next build will be...that will determine if anything can be preserved...for goodness sake this turntable is the oldest in the world surely something can be done to save it but sorry i still have my doubts.".seek out and destroy "should now be birminghams new motto:mad:....amazing history beneath our feet

lyn
 
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Thanks for that.

I noticed the work last week, and it seems more have been uncovered.

Here are two images from Richard Fosters Book Vol 1 on Birmingham New Street. The locomotive shed foundations are an important find. The London shed was at Camden, and the external structure still survives there.

514006.jpg


514007.jpg
 
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Astoness said:
wow what fantastic drone footage and judi i wished i had your confidence...i guess it all depends on how deep the footings for the next build will be...that will determine if anything can be preserved...for goodness sake this turntable is the oldest in the world surely something can be done to save it but sorry i still have my doubts.".seek out and destroy "should now be birminghams new motto:mad:....amazing history beneath our feet

lyn
Click to expand...
It's the fact that is the oldest in the world that gives me some hope that it can be preserved in some way - if not on site then lifted & reconstructed elsewhere.

They have managed to preserve Roman ruins under huge skyscrapers in London, so it can be done if they put their mind to it.
 
The roundhouse formerly believed the oldest (1839) still exits in Derby. Not just earthworks and foundations but the complete building. The Camden one, built 1846/7 still exists but serves other purposes. I do not think the Birmingham excavation, revealing roundhouse footings and turntable base,and walls, will be maintained in view but most likely recorded and covered - this happens all the while. The few structures that survive above ground are usually those that are complete or mostly so. Given that the building Derby is very close in time of construction and is complete does not help the Curzon Street site. To expand the goods facilities at Curzon Street the roundhouse and some other buildings were demolished between 1869 and 1870, so they have been gone a long while from view.
However, as Truly of the Yard might say, "he could be lying!" ;)
 
JudiM said:
If it's a building that is due to go over where it is, it would be fun if they could put a glass floor over it so that you can see it as you walk over.
Click to expand...

I guess it depends where it is in relation to the trains lines and station. If it is under where the rails go that come in and out the station they wont be able to do that "glass floor" option.

I was up in that area on Sunday (in the rain) and noticed that part of the tarmac had gone in Curzon Street near that station, and underneath were these cobbles. I guess there may be cobbles under tarmac in many roads in Birmingham.

IMG_3843.JPG

I also noticed on the old map on the hoardings provided by HS2 that Curzon Street was called Duddeston Street. When did it become Curzon Street?

IMG_3852.JPG

And finally for old times sake, a photo of the said station

IMG_3850.JPGl
 
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Re: Curzon Street / Duddeston Street, Guilbert, my father worked out of Curzon Street before WW1 delivering goods & parcels with his horse & cart, and he always referred to it as Curzon Street. Beyond that, I know nowt!

Maurice :cool:
 
I assumed that Curzon Street was named after Lord Curzon who was considered for appointment as prime minister. So I looked up dates and cannot see any justification for naming a street after him before about 1906 when he returned from being Vice-Roy of India. As the street dates from before that time it is very likely that there was a change of name for the street.
 
I tried to get some photos from the train on Saturday 14th March 2020, between Birmingham New Street and Aston of the Turntable, from the Cross City Line.

First view of the turntable.



Towards University Locks.



Towards the Curzon Building and University Locks.



Straight on view from the train.

 
Thanks Ell, I did not attempt photos when I went past last week. Facebook have blocked a post I put on there with a link to the BBC news report of the finding but they are blocking a number of things at the moment because of a bug in their computer systems.
 
Thanks for the pictures ellbrown. We usually manage to keep updated from the train window but have decided not to go on public transport at the moment. I especially liked the cobbles.
 
DavidGrain said:
I assumed that Curzon Street was named after Lord Curzon who was considered for appointment as prime minister. So I looked up dates and cannot see any justification for naming a street after him before about 1906 when he returned from being Vice-Roy of India. As the street dates from before that time it is very likely that there was a change of name for the street.
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The view shown is Ackerman's view of 1843. In fact the 1839 map shows a very short length marked Curzon st on the far right over the bridge, with the rest named Duddeston St. (I will post a scan shortly),. By the time of the 1855 Kellys there is no Duddeston St, just Curzon St. I would suggest that the most likely candidate was one of his ancestors, probably Nathaniel Curzon, 1st Baron Scarsdale, who developed Kedleston Hall.
 
There are some interesting views of the excavation, which it seems is still ongoing. The shed was probably taken down in the 1850's and is not shown on the general Piggot Smiths map of that period, although the date of that map is questionable- late 1850's to late 1860s. An early Piggot Smith version, which was at one time available from the Central library shows the following.
 

Attachments

guilbert53 said:
I guess it depends where it is in relation to the trains lines and station. If it is under where the rails go that come in and out the station they wont be able to do that "glass floor" option.

I was up in that area on Sunday (in the rain) and noticed that part of the tarmac had gone in Curzon Street near that station, and underneath were these cobbles. I guess there may be cobbles under tarmac in many roads in Birmingham.

View attachment 143042

I also noticed on the old map on the hoardings provided by HS2 that Curzon Street was called Duddeston Street. When did it become Curzon Street?

View attachment 143043

And finally for old times sake, a photo of the said station

View attachment 143044l
Click to expand...
They certainly found some in Victoria Square when the started the tram line works -

www.genesisradiobirmingham.com

Archaeologists have dated historic path under Birmingham's Victoria Square

A historic cobblestone footpath found buried under Birmingham’s historic Victoria Square has been dated to late 18th Century. Staff working…
www.genesisradiobirmingham.com www.genesisradiobirmingham.com
 
Vivienne14 said:
An account of the station from 1979. It mentions the buildings that were demolished including the Queens Hotel. Viv.

View attachment 141449
Click to expand...
The huge "Aluminum Shed" pictured was the old BR parcels depot.I worked there for a period during the mid seventies when it was a thriving place. Indirectly this job led me into a rewarding and much travelled career in Global Logistics that took me through to retirement. I have very fond memories of this time in my working life, some of which included down time when trains were delayed spent in the Woodman pub just opposite. Nobody seemed to mind when we returned to work having had three or four pints.
 
The Woodman and the Eagle & Tun were both popular for workers the British Rail Parcels Depot. NCL staff were used as delivery drivers. The fuel tanks for the vehicles were there until recently, but suspect the latest excavations has led to their removal
 
Previously posted these on the HS2 thread. Some more views from the train last Saturday.

JCB's.



Piles of earth and a lot of rubble.



Just before Lawley Middleway towards the current WMFS HQ.



The HS2 sign from the train has moved to this side (near the Digbeth Branch Canal).

 
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