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Courtyards and yards of brum

In 1895 a notice of lighting from the Corporation does mention Courts 1-7.
Here is an auction notice from July 1909 for Cregoe and Gough Places....with Out-offices!

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oldMohawk said:
Although there is already a pic of Camden Grove in another thread here are two with constrast and sharpness improved. They show No 7 Court, Camden Grove as the inhabitants look at the photographer maybe wondering why he would take a photo of their court. The second photo shows the view they saw when they looked out of their doors.
View attachment 132142

View attachment 132143
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In 1917 the Estate of Mr Thomas Priest included 21 houses around Camden Street, Ten being in Camden Grove.

Mr Priest was a corn merchant, one time President of the Master Bakers and Member of the Board of Guardians. In 1890 he was fired 8s 6d for delivery of bread without a set of scales. In 1893 he was fined 20s for cruelty to a horse by working it when in an unfit condition.
 
Looking at the map in post#964 I have drawn an arrow pointing at a court which has a plan view matching the court in the first photo in #963. The houses marked in green, the outhouses marked red and the red circle marks where the camera was.
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A small mystery with this image. The photographer knew where he was and chalked the address 5-10 Station Terrace, Hill St on the wall, but I can't seem to locate it on a map. There is a tall building with a domed roof in the background ... does anyone recognise it?
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It's a possiblity although the cupolas or domes on the Post Office seem more pointed. Looking at courts or similar off Hill Street I cannot yet find any pointed in the direction of the Post Office ... :)
 
I've just looked at another map Lyn, and can't locate a Station Terrace. They look a cheerful group in the court ...:)
 
have to say they do phil...maybe when mike spots this post he can help find us a map showing station terrace....fingers crossed nice photo

lyn
 
At first glance I can’t locate Station Terrace, but there are quite a few mentions of it as being Hill Street.
 
thanks pedro i thought st judes was in or near hill st...will try and find a photo of it to compere

lyn
 
The domed tower is actually on Pinfold St and looking again at the pic in #971 there appears to be building work going on at the end of the court and the last house has actually been boarded off. Perhaps the Central Post Office was being built and near completion when this pic was taken.

On this 1889 map the Post Office had not yet been built. The red dot marks the position (approx) where the tower would be. The pink shaded area marks where the courtyard would have to be in order to have the tower in view. There appear to be alleyways off Hill Street
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This 1905 map shows the Post Office and the tower position is marked. It looks like all of the houses have been demolished.
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Phil,

This search is not made any easier by the enumerator's walkabout sheets for 1881 & 1891 censuses of that area being largely missing from the census images on FMP. Neither does Pinfold Street appear in the 1891 address search on FMP. Also whilst there is no shortage of courts and back houses in that block, there is no guarantee that the enumerator knows them by the name of Station Terrace! :-) I will continue to dig, but I guess that most of that area was flattened by 1901.

Maurice
 
sospiri said:
Phil,

This search is not made any easier by the enumerator's walkabout sheets for 1881 & 1891 censuses of that area being largely missing from the census images on FMP. Neither does Pinfold Street appear in the 1891 address search on FMP. Also whilst there is no shortage of courts and back houses in that block, there is no guarantee that the enumerator knows them by the name of Station Terrace! :) I will continue to dig, but I guess that most of that area was flattened by 1901.

Maurice
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There are at least 5 mentions of Station Terrace, Hill Street, between 1890 and 1900 in the Press. It may have not lasted much longer.
 
Hi Maurice,

I must admit I can't pick out a court with the necessary alignment in either the map in #983 or the one in #984. I suppose the occupants were just told to vacate and find somewhere else because the main Post Office was being built.

It seems from Pedrocut's post that Station Terrace did exist ... convenient for the city centre and the station ...

Phil
 
Phil,

I've just spent over three hours going through every image in Piece 2375 of the 1891 Census, which includes all of Hill Street, and parts of the following streets - Beak Street, Station Street, Dudley Street, Severn Street, Navigation Street, John Bright Street, Suffolk Street, Smallbrook Street, Worcester Street, Paradise Street, and umpteen courts and back houses. At the end there is even a long list of empty houses, but nowhere within these images was there any mention of a Station Terrace.

Hill Street does not appear in any other piece number according to the FMP index and neither does a Station Terrace or ironically a Pinfold Street. I've attached below the enumerator's walkabout sheet for Piece 2375.

Swallow Street and Summer Street do not appear to be in this Piece number, though I did search them in 1881 - probably the enumerator's boundaries may have changed, but could that roof be seen from those streets?

Pedro,

If those mentions of Station Terrace in the Press contain the names of any people living there, I'd be happy to do a search for them on the 1891 Census and see what comes up.

Maurice

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This dated 1885, when major re-developments on the approach to New Street station were taking place. This was due to the need of the joint operations of the L&NWR and Midland Railway. 1923 saw the grouping of over most of the 100 plus British lines into just four major ones. New Street became the LMS owned .
The photo looks later than 1885, however, there is the possibility that more track arrangements were made and demolitions in Hill Street allowed for widening newer buildings at a later date.
 
It is reported that in 1890 the new PO was in an advanced stage, enough to give an idea how it would look, but the last mention I can find of Station Terrace, Hill St is February 1900 when a lad called John Dixon (15) was taken to hospital having been kicked by another boy. He was from 4 Station Terrace, Hill Street.

The map shown in post 983 is revised 1887 and shows how the land lies before the GPO was was built.

Courtyards and yards of brum

bet that step had a few tales to tell pete:)
birminghamhistory.co.uk birminghamhistory.co.uk

1900 Kelly's, from Navigation St. upwards on the East side of Hill Street, only shows 46.5, 46, and then the GPO.

Going back to 1883 Kelly shows numbers 46 to 62 from Navigation Street to Paradise Street. However there is no indication of Station Terrace anywhere, including a check on Pinfold Street.
Other mentions...1893 Albert Dixon (43) of 4 ST.....1895 Alfred Davis (35) of 11 ST

HANG ON....Maybe a break through, will post later.
 
With regard to the photo in post 990, One poster refers to Leach's lectures at the town hall. Apparently these were started by a preacher. the last mention in the press seems to be 1884 and they were apparently started around 1875 , but not at town hall at first.

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The only John Dixon that is of about the right age on both the 1881 and 1891 Censuses was living in Sandy Lane in both years - a bit distant from Hill street.

However, Greens Village is mentioned in Piece 2375 of the 1891.

Maurice
 
The layout of the court named Greens village would fit on the c1889 map, though not the dome, unless , (possibly but dubious about that) it was part of St Judes School.
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In Piece 2375 of the 1891, there are only two families with the address of Greens Village:-
the GOODWIN family and it appears between 105 and 107 Hill Street, and
the DUNN family and it appears between 1 Station Street and Bk 16 John Bright Bright Street.
Work that out if you can! :)

I'll have a look for Greens Village in 1881

Maurice
 
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The area of Greens village did have a reputation for being a dubious area (which might be why some preferred to call it something else !), so possibly the inhabvitants were not too keen to put down their details in the census
 
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