Buildings at risk

[Astoness]

Sounds like a good plan to me, rather than it become completely derelict and beyond saving. Would make a very nice place to live in and would retain some of the history of the area (providing planning permission is properly applied). A very nice buiding loaded with interesting features.

quite agree viv..its been neglected for far too long

 

[Richard Dye]

Sounds like a good plan to me, rather than it become completely derelict and beyond saving. Would make a very nice place to live in and would retain some of the history of the area (providing planning permission is properly applied). A very nice buiding loaded with interesting features.

Great idea!

 

[B16girl]

I think those were particular schemes Phil, which had special funding. My info is probably a bit out of date (like 20 years) but on the grade 2 Georgian terrace in Chichester, where I was brought up, there were no grants for windows, only for very basic things like inside toilets andnbathrooms, and I think this was still so up till about 2000 at least

Mike

When we worked on the Urban Renewal & Envelope Schemes in the 70's & 80's most of the work consisted of 95% grants and in some circumstances 100% all windows and doors that were replaced were single glazed wooden units and were made to look like sash cord windows even if they were top opening. If windows were metal or UVPC double glazed then in most cases they were left in situ.

Yes I used to live in Brookfield Terrace (off Western Road B18), and when I bought the terrace it was previously “enveloped” in the 80/s or 90s ( not sure). New wooden windows which looked like sashes, central heating , dpc. I think BCC got some sort of urban renewal grant spot do this when the newer canal side townhouses were built round the corner to stop the old Victorian housing stock degenerating further.

 

[pjmburns]

Just spotted this in the Mail

Birmingham gem where a generation partied at risk of falling down

Methodist Central Hall was home of the Que Club but is now a sad shadow of the glory days when David Bowie and Blur performed

www.birminghammail.co.uk

 

[mikejee]

Just spotted this in the Mail

Birmingham gem where a generation partied at risk of falling down

Methodist Central Hall was home of the Que Club but is now a sad shadow of the glory days when David Bowie and Blur performed

www.birminghammail.co.uk

Largely copied from the online birm dispatch a few weeks ago

 

[Richard Dye]

Just spotted this in the Mail

Birmingham gem where a generation partied at risk of falling down

Methodist Central Hall was home of the Que Club but is now a sad shadow of the glory days when David Bowie and Blur performed

www.birminghammail.co.uk

That is such a beautiful building, I hope that with all of the architectural talent available they just don’t pull it down and replace it with a non descript concrete block. A building like that could readily be converted to a hotel or flats.

 

[Astoness]

very sad news richard but i think we expected it...the building has been neglected for years...

lyn

 

[Richard Dye]

very sad news richard but i think we expected it...the building has been neglected for years...

lyn

That is the really sad part that is an expectation!

 

[1299]

Unfortunately, due to the direction Birmingham has been heading for the last few years, there will be many more fine buildings LOST.

 

[Richard Dye]

Unfortunately, due to the direction Birmingham has been heading for the last few years, there will be many more fine buildings LOAre they elected officials charting the direction or are the career beaurocrats

Are the elected officials or the unelected types? You can change one but not the other, at least without some difficulty!

 

[Morturn]

Are the elected officials or the unelected types? You can change one but not the other, at least without some difficulty!

Richard

Birmingham Council has a democratic structure of 101 elected councillors who represent their constituents.

There is a Cabinet made up of 10 councillors, a scrutiny committee of 11, and a myriad of other committees that additional councillors typically sit on.

Then there are the senior officers—council employees—led by a managing director and 11 others with grand titles, most of which include the word strategic in their lengthy job descriptions.

I’ll admit, I have a bit of a bee in my bonnet about the overuse of strategic in job titles. I’m sure you’ll agree it’s often a misused term, but it certainly sounds impressive.

There’s a tendency for political parties to blame each other for the council’s problems. However, having seen both parties in power, I don’t believe sole blame can be placed on either.

If you examine the root causes—whether it’s the bin dispute, the pay structure, the grading system, the job evaluation process, or the disproportionate reliance on agency staff (some of whom have been employed for 14 years)—it’s clear this isn’t just a political issue.

Underpinning all of this are very powerful trade unions. As I often say: management gets the unions it deserves. There’s significant room for improvement across the entire system.

 

[Richard Dye]

Richard

Birmingham Council has a democratic structure of 101 elected councillors who represent their constituents.

There is a Cabinet made up of 10 councillors, a scrutiny committee of 11, and a myriad of other committees that additional councillors typically sit on.

Then there are the senior officers—council employees—led by a managing director and 11 others with grand titles, most of which include the word strategic in their lengthy job descriptions.

I’ll admit, I have a bit of a bee in my bonnet about the overuse of strategic in job titles. I’m sure you’ll agree it’s often a misused term, but it certainly sounds impressive.

There’s a tendency for political parties to blame each other for the council’s problems. However, having seen both parties in power, I don’t believe sole blame can be placed on either.

If you examine the root causes—whether it’s the bin dispute, the pay structure, the grading system, the job evaluation process, or the disproportionate reliance on agency staff (some of whom have been employed for 14 years)—it’s clear this isn’t just a political issue.

Underpinning all of this are very powerful trade unions. As I often say: management gets the unions it deserves. There’s significant room for improvement across the entire system.

Mort, I am in total agreement with your comments regarding the use of strategic. Strategic is from the Greek term meaning to kill it’s a military term. From your posting. There seem to be too many layers involved, and regarding the unions you are correct. Nevertheless, none of that explains why the powers that be necessary to tear down the history of such a great city.

 

[Morturn]

Mort, I am in total agreement with your comments regarding the use of strategic. Strategic is from the Greek term meaning to kill it’s a military term. From your posting. There seem to be too many layers involved, and regarding the unions you are correct. Nevertheless, none of that explains why the powers that be necessary to tear down the history of such a great city.

Your absolutely correct, apologies. Unfortunately, it’s not just in Birmingham where listed building are being demolished. There was a theatre in Dudley, a teapoy factory in Stoke-on-Trent and a school in Durham, all listed, and all have fallen fowl of the wrecking ball.

Its not so much about cost to repair, but ongoing sustainability through reuse. It one thing loving something, another thing paying for it.

 

[Richard Dye]

Your absolutely correct, apologies. Unfortunately, it’s not just in Birmingham where listed building are being demolished. There was a theatre in Dudley, a teapoy factory in Stoke-on-Trent and a school in Durham, all listed, and all have fallen fowl of the wrecking ball.

Its not so much about cost to repair, but ongoing sustainability through reuse. It one thing loving something, another thing paying for it.

From what I have seen, which is quite a narrow perspective, the total cost to tear down rebuild with a relatively short life has to be for our greater than preserving something from history. Not in all cases and not every time, but it certainly seems that the easy way out on someone’s watch is to tear down and build new without regard.

 

[Morturn]

From what I have seen, which is quite a narrow perspective, the total cost to tear down rebuild with a relatively short life has to be for our greater than preserving something from history. Not in all cases and not every time, but it certainly seems that the easy way out on someone’s watch is to tear down and build new without regard.

With reuse of historic building there are a few factors to consider, for example the life cycle cost. In the UK energy costs have increased by around 98% in the last ten years, making older building less attractive because they are hard to insulate. Often listed buildings in the UK tend to find reuse within the commercial sectors, but the listing makes ongoing day to day maintenance quite unattractive.

My experience of the heritage sector in the uk is it quite expensive. Grants are available but just so many hoops to jump through. I had to attend 13 meeting just to get a grant of £5k for some match funding to do some life cycle costing.

There are a lot of consultants applying for grants, all of which are a costs that does not get spent on the physical repair of the structure, before you even start with 20% professional fees.

I’m not defending this, I would really like to see more old building reused, but the system here is not the best.

 

[Richard Dye]

With reuse of historic building there are a few factors to consider, for example the life cycle cost. In the UK energy costs have increased by around 98% in the last ten years, making older building less attractive because they are hard to insulate. Often listed buildings in the UK tend to find reuse within the commercial sectors, but the listing makes ongoing day to day maintenance quite unattractive.

My experience of the heritage sector in the uk is it quite expensive. Grants are available but just so many hoops to jump through. I had to attend 13 meeting just to get a grant of £5k for some match funding to do some life cycle costing.

There are a lot of consultants applying for grants, all of which are a costs that does not get spent on the physical repair of the structure, before you even start with 20% professional fees.

I’m not defending this, I would really like to see more old building reused, but the system here is not the best.

While I do not understand the way it is done in the UK, the unelected gate keepers are not wrapped too tight in the US. I have worked in the US as a consultant/expert witness (still do) and found, the level of frustration is a mile high! There are layers and layers of people granting approval that many know little about the subject driving costs higher and higher. I went for a meeting with the state EPA, there was me the primary contact, an environmental attorney, his paralegal and three environmental engineers. We drove 120 miles, three cars for a 30-minute meeting where I was the only one answering questions while the others nodded.
I understand the energy thing although if you get the right contractor there are many new insulating materials and triple glazed windows. Still there is still no reason the new construction should only last 60 years and look like a Nazi bunker.
Vanderbilt University just put on a large addition, 2 years ago that blended in with the original construction nearly 100 years old. The inside was all the latest mod cons etc., it looks beautiful!
My apologies, I'll get off my soap box, it would be easy if I did not care..........

 

[mikejee]

I think we have fully discussed these problems for the moment. I would be grateful if the remainder of the thread be just used to note any new developments of buildings at risk