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Black Patch

It seems strange to me that the note from Jack Hill of Tamworth about his birth in a Gypsy caravan was kept by Chaplin. If it was rubbish I feel it would have been tossed in a bin. This would also explain the lack of a birth certificate. It is such a shame Jack did not leave more information.
 
If MI5 couldn't trace the birth certificate in either the UK or France then you can be pretty sure the birth was not registered. However I think I have made the comment before that even if the birth was not registered, he would have been baptised and there is probbably abaptisaml record lying in some church archive somewhere.
 
img405.jpg
Gypsies on Black Patch Park near Winson Green, it does not have a date on it.
 
Re: The Black Patch

Hi Sue,

I have been reading with interest your information on the Smiths and Clayton on Black Patch. I am related to Trezi-Ann Smith
 
Hello, Covgirl,
Can you give me more info, please? Such as year of birth of Trezi-Ann and maybe her mother & father's names? Anything more for me to go on....
 
Trezi-Ann Smith and William Clayton were my great,great,great grandparents. Trezi-Ann was born in Northampton in 1824, the daughter of Woodfine Smith and Sarah Boswell. Wiliam and Trezi-Ann's son Alfred married Eliza Smith (daughter of Esau and Enty Smith, King & Queen of Black Patch) and produced my great grandad Leonard Clayton. Their other son Francis married Anselina Lovell and produced my great grannie Susannah, they then had my grandad Phoenix Clayton. What a close knit family we are! Covgirl, do you know your relationship to Trezi-Ann?
 
Hi, Thanx for the info - what a fantastic history you have! I can't see where we may be related as all of their families were so large and none of mine have any Northampton connections as far as I know. One of my main connections which I am trying to research is through the Joneses. Polly Jones was my great, great, great grandmother and lived on Black Patch. She could not speak any English. Her son James married Mary Ann White.
 
Re: Black patch Gypsies

HI,

Further to your email regarding the Claytons. I have discovered I am related by my mothers side to the Claytons,Smiths of the Black Patch and could be related to you. Mothers g.g.grandfather William Clayton married Trezi-Ann Smith and his brother Alfred married Eliza sister of Sentenia (Henty). I would love to hear from you and have a look at the family tree to see where out family fit in. Thanks
 
Re: Black patch Gypsies

Hiya Covgirl

William & Trezi-Ann had 11 children : Sidney,Louisa,Francis,William,Albert,Alfred,Ellen/Alverine,Diana,Isaiah (baptised as Gildroy),Mary-Ann & Sentenia/Cinderline. Any idea which of them is in your line so I can try to trace your tree? As a boy I remember seeing an article on the local TV news about the Romany Smith family in Coventry and my Dad saying we were related to them.
 
Hi Sue, Trezi-Ann Smith and William Clayton were my great,great,great.grandparents. Their son Alfred married Eliza Smith,( daughter of Esau and Henty)my great,great,grandparents and their daughter Delia/Delilah born 1882 was my great grandma, who married Alfred Davis. in 1909.They came to live in Coventry in 1911, with my grandmother Elizabeth and her brother Alfred.
I have only just realised over the bank holiday I am related to gypsy's of the Black Patch and I am delighted.
Unfortunately I am rather short on dates of events and do not have a lot of information on the Claytons although my mother believes they were on the canals.
I would love to view the family tree to see where my family fit in with yours, as I believe we are related.

Take Care, Elaine New Found Gypsy AND Proud of It.
 
Re: Black patch Gypsies

Hi Gypsy Clayton,

My family ties are with Alfred Clayton who married Eliza Smith. There daughter Delia/Delilah born 1882 was my great grandma and she married Alfred Davis who I believe was gypsy of the Black Patch. They came to Coventry around 1911 with my grandma Elizabeth aged 2 and her brother 9 months. My grandma married Wilfred Herbert and their daughter Jean is my mother.
 
Hello Covgirl,

The Claytons on the canals are no relation to us and their canal boat company Clayton, Morton & Fellows still exists on Black Country canals. Your great grandma Delia/Delilah also called Lily was the younger sister of my great grandad Leonard, so we are related. In the 1891 Census they are all listed as caravan dwellers on Black Patch, officially classed as Foundry Caravan (Foundry Road borders the 'Patch). Delia and Alfred/Albert Davis married on Christmas Day 1902 at St Michael and All Angels Church in Smethwick. Don't know if you're aware but the Romany families used lots of different names; Christian and Surnames to protect their identity which often causes confusion when trying to trace them! Every year there's an annual reunion at Black Patch ( the Soho Tavern Pub) to commemorate our heritage organised by local historian Ted Rudge. This year its Saturday 21st July from 11am. If you google Ted Rudge/Romany Memorial you'll find it of interest. Hope this helps, I'll try to answer any questions you have.
 
Hi, Gypsy Clayton,

Nice to know that we are related. Thanks for your information about Delilah, just spoke to my mother who said she can remember what a lovely lady she was, would give you anything. Do you know anything about a little girl that was living with the family on the 1901 census called Kathren Jones Clayton d.o.b. 1896 she was only 5. Will definitely look into the annual reunion and google Ted Rudge to find further information.

Do you have any information on William Clayton or Alfred Clayton their parents etc, have been trying to find details for a while with not a lot of success.

Thank you, take care Elaine
 
still looking for a picture of Bob Hatch a Birmingham comedian that I was told played the BSA club in the 1950/1960`s. Please can anyone help? I`m new on here I dont know where to start looking.......he was my husbands birth father and he never knew him. I would be so grateful for any help. Thanks in advance
 
bluebru said:
still looking for a picture of Bob Hatch a Birmingham comedian that I was told played the BSA club in the 1950/1960`s. Please can anyone help? I`m new on here I dont know where to start looking.......he was my husbands birth father and he never knew him. I would be so grateful for any help. Thanks in advance
Click to expand...

Hi,
I think this has been sent to me by mistake. I would try and help you but have no idea.I wish you every success trying to obtain a picture.
 
jennyann said:
It looks as though Bob Hatch was a good friend of Jasper Carrott from this article in 2001.https://www.thefreelibrary.com/STAY...ss+moons+about+his+summer+in+Brum.-a072260873. Jasper might have some info about Bob and perhaps a photo. https://www.fanmail.biz/54110.html
Also found this about the appearance on a TV show going back decades "Bid for Fame: https://www.78rpm.co.uk/abc.htm
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Oh my goodness, thank you soooo much for this info. I will investigate further.
 
RobertS said:
It is interesting to note two references on the forum to Black Patch, referring to land infill/reclamation with slag ash or something similar.

Mariew in the 'Old Book' theme shows and encampment on a Black Patch.

The Balsall Heath theme also mentions a similar Black Patch used for football on the banks of the Rea.

In both of these cases these areas don't appear thus marked on maps just in memory.

Wonder if there are any others with this name (rather than just a description.)?[/QUOTE ]Calthorpe Park Loved the Place ,simple one side of the park the BLACK PATCH for Football other side of the river REA green grass for the CRICKET matches 1954/ 1970
Click to expand...
 
bluebru said:
still looking for a picture of Bob Hatch a Birmingham comedian that I was told played the BSA club in the 1950/1960`s. Please can anyone help? I`m new on here I dont know where to start looking.......he was my husbands birth father and he never knew him. I would be so grateful for any help. Thanks in advance
Click to expand...

I'm related to Bob Hatch, and am very interested in your post! Can you private message me please?
 
RobertS said:
Re: Info on Gypsy families in York

The letter was sent by Jack Hill from Tamworth and I wonder if we have any of 'Jack Hills' decendents on the forum. Jack was born in 1891/2. Charlie Cahplins mother was Hannah Hill so if we do, they may be distantly related to Chaplin.

'You were born in a Caravan (so was I) It was a good one. The caravan belonged to the Gypsy Queen, who was my auntie. You were born on the Black Patch in Smethwick near Birmingham.'
Click to expand...

I am Jack Hill's grandson.
 
penny said:
Hello I am sure I have a picture of Jack at the Black patch event, did he lose a eye???Senetenia Smith was my husbands 4th gt.
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Hi! Yes my Grandad lost his eye. I would like to see a picture, and then I can tell you if it was Jack. Thanks. Gerry
 
I also have a picture somewhere of a letter from Jack about Steve family. I guess you must be related to Steve my husband
 
Hi. Sorry that isn't Jack Hill. Jack Hill (my Grandad) was the one that wrote the letter. This is Jack back in the day. Michael Chaplin and Carmen Chaplin are now involved in the production of the documentary that we filmed a few years back. It should be in post-production next year. Thanks. Gerry
 

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Hi. My great great grandad died young. We couldnt find any birth records but he was born in smethwick through word.of mouth. So is it safe to assume due to lack of paperwork that ge would have came off the black patch. Its our last line as my great granny was illegitimate and we can't find her birth records either but was born in dudle. Any responses would be lovely.
 
My guess is that even if his birth was not registered he would have been baptised so you will need to refer to parish records. There are people on this forum more experienced in looking at parish records than I am. If born on the Black Patch, he could have been baptised in St Mary's Handsworth as the Black Patch was borderline between Smethwick and Handsworth
 
Hi. Back then, a lot of people born on the Black Patch, were not registered, as with my Grandfather and others. There just were no Birth Certificates.
 
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