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Birmingham Steam Buses 1824-1910.

Re: Good Moaning!

Thylacine said:
Good morning Steamgoons! :)
[Let's have a "sidebar" competition: find a picture of a motor vehicle with the earliest (genuine) Smethwick (HA) registration. Extra points if it's a bus or coach, and a gold star if it's steam powered! ;)]
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OK, Here's a Guest Keen and Nettlefold Thornycroft 2-tonner, HA 210. This dates it to 1909. Any earlier?
 
Holy Cow!

motorman-mike said:
... concrete cows ...
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Speaking of concrete cows (and thanks Molesworth for informing us of the significance of the Milton Keynes herd) here's something similar from my neck of the woods. It's a painted fibreglass cow (clearly a distant cousin of mine!) located at "Ashgrove Tasmanian Farm Cheese" at Elizabeth Town, not far from my home town Latrobe. There are about a dozen of them dotted about the farm, all beautifully (and differently) decorated by local school children for the "Cow Art" project.
 
I have searched through this condiderable thread with care but may well have missed a reference to the 1907 Bellis and Morcom Birmingham built open top steam bus for trial with the London General Omnibus Co. Ltd. This steam bus may well have graced some Birmingham streets if delivered under it's own steam. Have we researched this one off or was I dozing at the back of the class again! (a post ref if so please)
 
mikejee said:
To return to more meritorious noble pursuits, ie. beer ...
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Mike, thanks for those pictures of steamer's on the essential service of "quenching the nation's thirst". That second picture is an absolute cracker (even better if it's an elusive Hindley steam wagon, as Motorman suggested).
 
motorman-mike said:
... the 1907 Bellis and Morcom Birmingham built open top steam bus for trial with the London General Omnibus Co. Ltd. This steam bus may well have graced some Birmingham streets if delivered under it's own steam. Have we researched this one off or was I dozing at the back of the class again! ...
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No, Motorman, I don't think we've come across this one before, and it sounds fascinating. More information please! :thumbsup:

[Of course if my BSB Index wasn't stalled by the roadside ... :(]
 
Good heavens, it's taken me two hours to go through the latest posts! And I've still only brushed the surface. BSB surely is puffing along merrily; thanks everyone! :)
 
And for an early HA reg. PSV, here's ex-war department Daimler HA 377 with charabanc body.
At least I think it's HA... Anyone know wher Allen & Smith, electroplaters was?
 
John Scott Russell's Glasgow to Paisley Steam Carriage Service 1834.

John Scott Russell (1808-1882) was a Scottish naval engineer, best known for his building of the "Great Eastern" steam ship [picture 1]. He was a Master of Arts, and acted in the position of Professor of Natural Philosophy at Edinburgh University while still in his twenties. In 1834 he and lawyer William Dauney formed a business partnership trading as the Steam Carriage Company of Scotland and the Grove House Engine Manufactory of Edinburgh. They built six steam carriages to Russell's design, and in March or April 1834 began a passenger service between Glasgow and Paisley.

William Fletcher's excellent History and Development of Steam Locomotion on Common Roads (London: E & F N Spon, 1891) devotes several pages to Russell's steam carriage and the Glasgow – Paisley passenger service [pictures 2 and 3]. The carriage appears to have carried six passengers "inside", and hauled a tender which carried fuel and water and another twenty "outside" passengers. The service was very popular, but as usual the turnpike authorities tried their hardest to sabotage the steamers, by "macadamising" the road surface [see next post for details].

The operation came to grief on 29 July 1834 when one of the carriages broke a wheel and tipped over, causing the boiler to explode. Four or five passengers were killed, and another six or so were injured more or less severely. The failure of the business caused the bankruptcy of Russell and Dauney (as is documented in the London Gazette). Dauney eventually discharged his bankruptcy on 8 November 1837, and Russell on 20 December 1838. As Nathaniel Ogle states in his letter to The Times (post #742), two of Russell's steamers (which he calls "a disgrace to common sense") were later taken to London by William Dauney and were sold to one James Johnston for 800 guineas, seeing service around Deptford. William Fletcher adds a few details: "Russel's steam coaches were no longer used in Scotland, but two of them were sent by steamer to London, and were often engaged in running passengers between London and Greenwich, or Kew Bridge. Several trips were made to Windsor. They were eventually offered for sale, and to show their powers they started every day at one o'clock from Hyde Park Corner to make a journey to Hammersmith. But they remained unsold, and we hear nothing further respecting them." Russell and Dauney sued the Glasgow Road Trustees (Robert Scott and others) for damages of £10,000. The case dragged on (it was still active at the end of June 1836), and I am not sure of the outcome.

John Scott Russell went on to bigger and better things. His Times obituary is very informative, but does not mention the calamity of 29 July 1834. William Dauney is a much more mysterious figure. He published a book on Scottish music in 1838, and appears to have been appointed Solicitor General of British Guiana on 23 August 1843.

[Our own Professor Keith Fletcher has two relevant pictures in his collection: one a contemporary print of the accident, and the other a print of the steam carriage. I'm hoping he will be kind enough to post these for us on his return from foreign parts. :) There is a post on the MRED thread (#782) which gives a brief account of this early steam venture, and links to a SCRAN print of the disaster. I've also been fortunate to find a series of contemporary press reports, which I'll save for my next post.]
 
John Scott Russell's Glasgow to Paisley Steam Carriage Service 1834.

[The American Railway Journal and Advocate of Internal Improvements (Volume III Part II July 1834 to January 1835) kept a watchful eye on Glasgow steam bus developments. The following extracts (somewhat edited) provide a wonderfully detailed account of the rise and fall of the Russell steam venture. Note that the American reports are considerably later than the Scottish reports quoted.]

[Saturday 13 September 1834. Page 568. From the Glasgow Courier.]

Steam Carriages on Public Roads. — Since our last notice, these vehicles have continued to perform their trips, with increasing success, between Glasgow and Paisley. Although the roads still remain in a much worse condition than is usual at this season of the year, and although the broken stones laid on them by the Trustees had done considerable damage to the machines, these obstacles have been entirely overcome, and the carriages are daily crowded with passengers. As an indication of the perfect confidence placed in these vehicles, we may observe that several parties of ladies and gentlemen have made excursions to Paisley, and returned with them as a pleasure trip. The following is the running of morning trips on the six last days, the time being reckoned between Tradeston, Glasgow, and the Tontine, Paisley: — Thursday 17 July, ten o'clock coach to Paisley, 40 minutes; Friday 18 July, 44 minutes; Saturday 19 July, 35 minutes; Monday 21 July, 50 minutes; Tuesday 22 July, 50 minutes; Wednesday 23 July, 35 minutes. We have only further to remark, that the carriage which left Glasgow yesterday at 12 o'clock did the distance from the Half-Way House to Paisley, fully 3.5 miles, in ten minutes, being at the rate of upwards of 21 miles an hour! And that, on the two last trips on Saturday, the anxiety to get places was so great, that the carriage to Paisley took out 28 passengers, and returned with 39!

[Saturday 27 September 1834. Page 594. From the Edinburgh Observer.]

Mr Russell's Steam Carriages. — Through the medium of a letter received from Glasgow, we are happy to record the great and increasing success of these carriages. Our friend writes, that having re-commenced their regular business-career on Wednesday morning, they ran throughout the day with the utmost punctuality. The rate of speed may be judged of from the following statement sent us: first carriage, number four, 30 minutes; second, number four, 34 minutes; third, number three, 45 minutes; fourth, number three, 46 minutes; fifth, number one, 25 minutes; sixth, number one, 25 minutes. The distance here taken is from Tradeston, Glasgow, to the Tontine Inn, Paisley; for although the carriages start from George's Square, they are of course not put to their speed until they are clear of the crowded streets; but as this distance is at least seven miles, the rate attained by the last mentioned vehicle, which we understand is the one containing the most recent improvements, is not much less than 17 miles per hour. Another circumstance, we are glad to hear, was that so highly have the public in that quarter already begun to appreciate this new mode of conveyance, that the carriages were overloaded with passengers the whole day. We observe, however, that the Trustees of the Glasgow and Paisley road are by no means favorable to the undertaking, and have been for this week past busying themselves in laying down immense heaps of stones on all the ascents and best portions of the road, for the apparent purpose of obstructing the progress of the carriages, though hitherto without effect. This conduct, as might have been expected, is meeting with the general indignation of the people in that quarter.

[Saturday 27 September 1834. Pages 594-595. From the Glasgow Courier of 1 July 1834.]

We have much pleasure in noticing the last two days' most successful performance of the Glasgow and Paisley steam carriages. On Wednesday the carriages performed six trips, running every hour from ten till three o'clock, and yesterday an equal number. The carriages were crowded with passengers, and so great was the anxiety to obtain seats, that although there is accommodation for twenty-six, it was found impossible to prevent upwards of thirty persons from taking seats upon them. The average velocity of the carriage is twelve miles an hour, and the only impediment to a high rate lies in the extraordinary state of the road, which should at this moment be in the best possible condition, but has just been deeply bedded with broken stones, laid on in large masses, for the purpose of injuring the carriages. This is a line of illiberal policy, which it is hoped the trustees will not persevere in, as it cannot in any way affect the success of the carriages, which will assuredly be carried through with advantage, while the road is thereby rendered unfit for the purpose of general traffic, at a great expense to a public trust. At the sixth trip upon Wednesday last, and as the steam carriage was coming up to the new metal, it was found that enormous heaps of stone had just been laid down; and the tremendous power requisite to bear through it smashed one of the wheels, and detained the carriage till it was replaced.

[Saturday 27 September 1834. Page 595. From the Glasgow Herald.]

On the evening of Friday last, a highly interesting experiment was made upon the Paisley road for the purpose of ascertaining the comparative merits of two of the company's carriages upon different constructions. A little after six o'clock the carriages left George's Square, with a full supply of fuel and water adequate for eight miles. The carriages proceeded together through the crowded streets, as rapidly as safety would admit, and along the Paisley Road to a point a little beyond the Two-Mile House, where they turned and started together. After keeping exactly together for about a quarter of a mile, the carriage on the improved construction began to show a manifest superiority, and rapidly distanced the other; and on arriving at the Gorbals, Glasgow, had gained half a mile, having done the whole distance in seven and a half minutes, while the latter required ten minutes. The same carriage had, on the previous Wednesday, done the distance from the Tontine at Paisley to the Gorbals of Glasgow, being seven miles, in thirty-three minutes, including stoppages.

[Saturday 27 September 1834. Page 595. From the Glasgow Courier of 4 July 1834.]

On Wednesday the steam carriages commenced running every hour, with passengers and luggage; and they have since been plying with the most triumphant success. The carriages start from George's Square a little before the hour, and proceeding down Queen Street, take up passengers at the foot of it, and starting from the head of Maxwell Street they pass through Tradeston, where they again take up passengers. This generally occupies about twelve or fifteen minutes; and the seven miles to Paisley are then done in thirty or thirty-five minutes. A few minutes are thus left to take in a supply of water and fuel, with the complement of passengers, at Paisley; and at the succeeding hour the same carriage again returns to Glasgow.

We also noticed in our publication of Tuesday the kindness with which the road trustees, at the Glasgow end, has accommodated Mr Russell's carriages at their own expense (or that of the public), with a sufficient quantity of new metal, to try their powers; but we have since discovered that this kindly disposition has been carried a little too far, and that having found the carriages more than competent to the task of ploughing through the stratum of broken stones, previously laid down, they employed a large number of men on the following day, to lay down another stratum of equal thickness on the top of the former, rendering the road scarcely passable to any heavy load. Finding this expedient also ineffectual, we learnt yesterday that horses and carts and a number of men had been engaged during the whole of the night in laying down loads of broken stones, to such a depth that they were obliged to cut away the bottom of the toll-gate in order to allow it to close over the mass.

[Saturday 11 October 1834 page 625. From an English paper.]

Steam Carriage Accident. — One of the steam carriages plying from Glasgow to Paisley was upset on Tuesday, from the breaking of a wheel. The boiler burst, and the concussion was most dreadful; thirteen passengers were more or less injured, of whom Captain E B Gellner, from Ireland, was killed, and Mr Morrison, a merchant, of Gallowgate, and Mr Blackwood, a commercial traveller, are not expected to survive. Mr Serjeant, of Leicester, had his leg amputated. Several persons were scalded. A great sensation was produced in Paisley and Glasgow, and hundreds set out to view the scene of the disaster.
 
I like the Ashgrove Tasmanian Farm Cheese herd - don't suppose you have villeins down your way to corrupt them.

Thanks also for the story of John Scott Russell. It would be good to see some artwork about his exploits. All I can add at the moment is: I like his hat (perhaps he kept his tools in there too)

George Edward Belliss started his career in 1855, in partnership with John Seekings. They constructed a wide range of products including steam engines, pumps, mills, and locomotives.
When the partnership ended in the 1870s, Belliss started building naval engines. In the next 20 years, his high-speed propulsion engines were adopted by the Royal Navy, and supplied to navies all over the world.
In 1884, Alfred Morcom, the chief engineer at Sheerness Dockyard, joined the firm. Belliss & Morcom developed an international reputation for steam and diesel engines, turbines, and condensing plants.

The steam locomotive ‘Secundus’ was built by Belliss & Seekings in about 1874. It is their only surviving narrow gauge locomotive. It worked in the clay mines of Purbeck, Dorset until 1955.
The engine is on loan to Swanage Railway Trust until 2008. It can be seen at Furzebrook Tramway, Wareham, Dorset.

They seem to be most famous for their Generators https://www.birminghamstories.co.uk/story_page.php?id=12&type=fo&page=4&now=0 but we do need to find a pic of their open top steam bus (even if it was for London Transport)

Graces have a fulsome account of the company https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/wiki/Belliss_and_Morcom


Originally based in what is now Brindley Place, Broad St. The Broad Street building can be traced back to at least 1852 when it was occupied by Richard and Francis Bach who had a general engineering business. In 1855 they enlisted Mr George Edward Belliss as an apprentice, who later formed a partnership with a J. J. Seekings and bought out the company. They developed a keen interest in the development of steam power and the design of boat engines, and from this came work with the Royal Navy.

The business expanded and G.E.Belliss moved out of Broad Street to nearby Ledsam Street in 1872. The steam launch machinery was said to be of exceptional lightness with engines running at much higher speeds than were previously in vogue.

In 1884 Belliss took on Alfred Morcom as a partner. Morcom was previously the Chief Engineer at the Royal Naval Dockyards at Sheerness.

The firm expanded and moved to their present site in Icknield Square, Ladywood in 1899. G.E. Belliss died in 1909.

Today over 60% of their compressors are exported. The farthest that one has been was in 1988 when the Arianne European Space Rocket was launched to take telecommunications equipment into orbit. The initial boost was provided thanks to compressors supplied by Bellis & Morcom. Bellis and Morcom are now part of APE, Amalgamated Power Engineering Limited, specialising in Air and Gas compressors.

The Broad Street site was taken over by Piercy's Engineers and Iron Founders and eventually, the Reeve and Stedeford Car Sales Company were the last firm to trade from the site.

Born in 1885, Sydney Slater Guy was apprenticed to the Bellis & Morcom Steam Engineering Company at the age of 17 and by 1909, at the age of 24, was works manager at Sunbeam of Wolverhampton. Guy Buses would be a whole other thread I guess....


And Digital Ladywood https://www.search.digital-ladywood...direction=1&pointer=6950&text=0&resource=9068 comes up trumps and with the detail "LN4509 Bellis and Morcom Steam Bus built Nov 1907 and in service from 1908. Pictured at Poplar Road with Driver Armstrong and conductor Harry Low"
 
Aidan said:
... don't suppose you have villeins down your way to corrupt them ...
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Good morning Molesworth!

At first I thought you said "villains" (plenty of those down under! ;)). And maybe we also have "villeins", in the sense of tenant farmers. Not tied to their land though, except perhaps by debt! They get around in "utes" and like going to Agfest, but I don't think they're into vandalising art works. We do have armies of graffitists, but they tend to be strictly urban in habitat.

Thanks for revealing Brummie Belliss (and Morcom). I wonder if London Tansport Museum has a picture of their steam open-topper? :rolleyes:
 
I seem to have posted in the middle of yours, Molesworth! Sorry about that. Lovely picture of the B & M steam bus: great find!
 
Funny how the name "Piercy" suddenly arises! Prosser has nothing on Bellis (that seems to be the correct spelling with one "s") because he's too recent! Charles Klapper (Golden Age of the Bus) records merely that London General chief engineer Frank Searle "was enthusiastic for the Bellis & Morcom bus". And of course, being made in Ladywood, the B & M is the SGSB that came closest to Birmingham! (Ignoring the Lifu "Pioneer" for the moment until further evidence of its route emerges.) I wonder if Midland Red or Birmingham Corporation had a look at it before it left for London.

Thanks, Motorman and Molesworth, for educating us about the Bellis and Morcom (second generation) steam bus. I'm so chuffed I'm attaching a bigger version of Molesworth's picture (excuse my impertinence).
 
The London Gazette has several mentions of George Edward Belliss (double "s"!) and his companies:
5 January 1866: re the dissolution (on 30 December 1865) of the partnership between GEB and Joseph John Seekings (engineers, machinists and boiler makers of 13-14 Broad Street, Islington, and Cumberland Street, Birmingham) trading as "Belliss and Seekings". Business continued by GEB.
18 August 1893: re the dissolution (on 30 June 1893) of the partnership between GEB and Alfred Morcom (engineers and boiler makers of Ledsam Street Works, Ledsam Street, Birmingham, and Westminster Chambers, 9 Victoria Street, London SW) trading as "G E Belliss and Co". Business acquired and continued by G E Belliss and Company Limited.
27 October 1899: G E Bellliss and Co Ltd (Ledsam Street Works, Birmingham) resolved on 27 September 1899 (confirmed 24 October) to transfer its property, assets and liabilities to a new company: Belliss and Morcom Ltd.
25 August 1911: re the estate of GEB deceased (died 14 February 1909) late of "The Dell", Kings Norton, Worcestershire; executors: Margaretta Ann Belliss, James Ronald Polson, George Belliss Parrott, Thomas Henry Parrott, Henry John Elliott.​
 
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What a small world we live in! Twenty years ago I researched the history of the Handel festivals at the Crystal Palace, London, and became familiar with the name John Scott Russell. He was a member of the Royal Commission of the original Crystal Palace in Hyde Park, and later became a director of the Crystal Palace Company Board. By then the company had dismantled the temporary structure in Hyde Park, and was planning to re-erect it at the top of a hill in Upper Norwood, on land formerly owned by Leo Schuster, a director of the London Brighton and South Coast Railway (of which Paxton was also a director). The reconstructed building was opened (much enlarged) in an impressive park in 1854. Scott Russell moved to a new villa in Westwood Lodge, Sydenham in 1852 — only a short wlk from Paxton's house next to the site, and George Grove's humbler villa lower down in Sydenham.
Although originally a civil engineer, George Grove's claim to fame was the introduction of classical music to the Crystal Palace, setting up a resident orchestra, later becoming joint compiler of a "Dictionary of the Bible". He later wrote his Dictionary of Music (today the "New Grove" is the standard reference work)/
Back to Scott Russell, he got to know a talented 19-year old musician, Arthur Sullivan, who soon became Professor of Pianoforte and Ballad Singing in the Crystal Palace Art School. He became a regular guest at the Scott Russell house, and very close to JSR's daughter. Sadly for Sullivan, Mrs Scott Russell did not think he was a worthy suitor, being an impecunious musician. and he was banished.
Now on to steam traction, in 1882, one Norman Scott Russell bought out the Falcon Works at Loughborough from Henry Hughes, who had gone into liquidation. He improved upon the Hughes designs, and his locos were successful in Birmingham. As electricity increasingly proved itself, the Brush Electrical Engineering Company was registered in 1887 to acquire the assets of Anglo-American Brush and the Falcon Engine and Car Works.
It seems probable that Norman was related to John Scott Russell. And how about the firm that produced thousands of picture postcards in the Midlands?
Peter
 
Hello, Peter! Thanks for that fascinating contribution, connecting John Scott Russell with the Great Exhibition, the Crystal Palace, Handel festivals, George "Dictionary" Grove, and Arthur Sullivan of "Gilbert and Sullivan" fame! What wonderful connections!

And through Norman Scott Russell (who Wikipedia assures us was John Scott Russell's son), to the Loughborough world of Henry Hughes, the Falcon Engine and Car Works, the Brush Electrical Engineering Company, and so of course to Emile Garcke and the British Electric Traction Company tramway empire. I'm impressed!

Peter, you are always welcome on this thread. I just wish you'd visit more often. ;)
 
On that note, I reckon it's time for another "steam blast from the past" musical interlude. How about Eric Burdon and the Animals with "House of the Rising Steam" (1964). Rare and good quality colour video footage. (What's the decimal equivalent of "footage"?). It might be the wrong time of day for some of you. If so, just save it for later. ;) :222:
 
Slow down fellows, the posts are coming faster than I can read them.

The Milton Keynss concrete cows are now indoors.

View attachment 55467

This photo was taken January this year so perhaps these are their winter quarters.
This is Central Milton Keynes which is a bus ride away from Milton Keynes Central to confuse the visitors
 
Aiden, many thanks for finding a photo of the Belliss (correct spelling)& Morcom steam bus, proof positive it existed. Now we need to know whether it used the streets of Birmingham on test or to reach the LGOC under it's own steam in order to claim the distinction of there definitely having been a steam bus on Birmingham's streets, better still actually built in the city.
For those who like to know about such things it employed a semi flash boiler under the bonnet, with a compound undertype engine and chain final drive. Alas a trawl through the London Transport website photo collection has not produced a photo of it although there are some of other steamers, but all Clarksons.
On the Forum here if you type in Bellis & Morcom in the search box above, a wealth of information appears (some from a head Forum gurl), but no reference to our bus other than through BSB Steamgoons so far.

PS Thank you Sir for enlarging the B&M for our delectation.
 
Aidan said:
David - Post-1050 but the link should take you straight there
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No the vehicle was more modern than that. I was just commenting on the fact that it had an old Smethwick Registration.

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Hope I have attached this file of my drawing of the vehicle as computer does not seem to be doing as it is told. Thinking back it must be some 12 years ago that I saw the vehicle but in the life expectancy of electric vehicles this is not so long ago.
 
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