Keithfletcher
Keithfletcher
Sorry Aidan. This litho is framed and glazed and hanging on my wall. It will have to wait till I have time to take it out of the frame.
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Birmingham Steam Buses 1824-1910.
Sorry Aidan. This litho is framed and glazed and hanging on my wall. It will have to wait till I have time to take it out of the frame.
Aidan
master brummie
Pure poetry in motion - thank you
Aidan
master brummie
Keith - Thank you for sharing all you have. Plenty to get our analytical teeth into for the moment, but perhaps when you next do a spot of spring-cleaning...
Have to say it would be framed on my wall too if I had an original. And I think this is pertinent to your point about eBooks and their supposed consequences. My view would be the reproduction of art & books should stimulate the market as it introduces them to a wider audience and some of these will want to hold and appreciate an original. But then again I haven't betted my livelihood on that concept so it is only the view of a simple punter
Aidan
master brummie
It is certainly more ornate and a different design to the Oil. I wonder if it was a design brief too far and made the bankers throw in the towel?
Thylacine
master brummie
Actually we have seen "Plate 14" (from Prof Fletcher's 1833 German edition of Gordon - post #461) before: at the "Science & Society" website here. Though different in appearance from the "oil", I think it is of the same vehicle, though it lacks the ornate "dome" over the front wheel, and the "on top" seating is missing.
"Science & Society" also has this quite different picture, though still of a three-wheeler. This could be either: [1] the later Church steam drag "Pioneer"; or [2] a "streamlined" version of "Church 1" (à la LNER "Mallard"). It also looks strangely double-ended like an electric tramcar!
[Prof Fletcher, I warned you that you were in for some serious pestering! You have fallen amongst thieves and anoraks!
]
"Science & Society" also has this quite different picture, though still of a three-wheeler. This could be either: [1] the later Church steam drag "Pioneer"; or [2] a "streamlined" version of "Church 1" (à la LNER "Mallard"). It also looks strangely double-ended like an electric tramcar!
[Prof Fletcher, I warned you that you were in for some serious pestering! You have fallen amongst thieves and anoraks!
]Keithfletcher
Keithfletcher
Details of Maceroni's life are given in his 2 volume autobiography "Memoirs of the Life and Adventures of Colonel Maceroni. London 1838". Here are a few quotes "In 1786 my father married a daughter of Benjamin Wildsmith of Sheffield". -- "In 1786 I was born in a quasi country-house in the suburbs of Manchester" -- "In 1792 father left Manchester for London" -- In 1795 I was sent to a Roman Catholic school in the village of Bridzor, Wiltshire..... then to a catholic school in Carshalton, Surrey.... afterwards to Old Hall Green College in Puckeridge, Herts (President. The Rev. Dr. Poynter)" -- "In 1805, at the age of 15 I was sent to Rome where my uncle was papal postmaster"
Thylacine
master brummie
Who Painted the "Church Oil"?
Yes, Molesworth, truth is stranger than fiction!
Now, concerning the putative painter of Prof Fletcher's "Church oil". We know that the creator of the subsequent engraving(s) (two mirror-image versions) was the Birmingham artist Josiah Allen. Science & Society extends this attribution to "after John Cooke", who we suspect to be the painter of the "Church oil". In an inspired hypothesis, mikejee (post #55) wondered if this might be John Cooke Bourne (1 September 1814 - February 1896), "the Piranesi of the Railway Age". If this were true, the "Church oil" (which must date to 1832-1833) would have been painted by J C Bourne when he was 18 or 19 years old. This is not impossible, and might account for the "primitive" style of the "Church oil" compared to J C Bourne's known later work. J C Bourne was based in London, but again I don't think that goes against Mike's hypothesis. The London Science Museum has a four-page biography of J C Bourne (starting here), which sadly doesn't enlighten us as to the artist's activities in the early 1830s.
This is all very speculative, but I would be interested in your opinion, Prof Fletcher, on Mike's suggestion.
Yes, Molesworth, truth is stranger than fiction!
Now, concerning the putative painter of Prof Fletcher's "Church oil". We know that the creator of the subsequent engraving(s) (two mirror-image versions) was the Birmingham artist Josiah Allen. Science & Society extends this attribution to "after John Cooke", who we suspect to be the painter of the "Church oil". In an inspired hypothesis, mikejee (post #55) wondered if this might be John Cooke Bourne (1 September 1814 - February 1896), "the Piranesi of the Railway Age". If this were true, the "Church oil" (which must date to 1832-1833) would have been painted by J C Bourne when he was 18 or 19 years old. This is not impossible, and might account for the "primitive" style of the "Church oil" compared to J C Bourne's known later work. J C Bourne was based in London, but again I don't think that goes against Mike's hypothesis. The London Science Museum has a four-page biography of J C Bourne (starting here), which sadly doesn't enlighten us as to the artist's activities in the early 1830s.
This is all very speculative, but I would be interested in your opinion, Prof Fletcher, on Mike's suggestion.
Aidan
master brummie
..."https://www.scienceandsociety.co.uk/results.asp?image=10420068"]this quite different picture[/URL], though still of a three-wheeler. This could be either: [1] the later Church steam drag "Pioneer"; or [2] a "streamlined" version of "Church 1" (à la LNER "Mallard"). It also looks strangely double-ended like an electric tramcar!
...
It looks like a mobile monolithic Church confessional... (thinks: better make an appointment sharpish, I know my time is short) :backstab: ... though probably highly efficient in terms of passenger density
Aidan
master brummie
Re: Who Painted the "Church Oil"?
I have already expressed that I think it is an excellent posit.
However as I was reading the Science Museum link - I feel I have transported into Motorman's "Beautiful Mind" (is he playing truant BTW?).
Is Bourne's engraving mentor John Pye related to Charles Pye who engraved the 1820 map (and therefore early link to Birmingham) "A Description of modern Birmingham"?
And Pyramids too in Bourne's later engravings for Catherwood's "Ancient Monuments in Central America, Chiapas and Yucatan". Sadly I don't currently have the $80k needed to get a copy so would dearly love to find the eBook to keep me going while I save up. Although the Mayas of the Yucatan didn't have any (known) mechanicals as such (although hotly debatable I grant), they did "invent" the Temazcal steam-powered sauna - in a panorama shaped building, for the after-football game (with human head natch) "bath"
I have already expressed that I think it is an excellent posit.
However as I was reading the Science Museum link - I feel I have transported into Motorman's "Beautiful Mind" (is he playing truant BTW?).
Is Bourne's engraving mentor John Pye related to Charles Pye who engraved the 1820 map (and therefore early link to Birmingham) "A Description of modern Birmingham"?
And Pyramids too in Bourne's later engravings for Catherwood's "Ancient Monuments in Central America, Chiapas and Yucatan". Sadly I don't currently have the $80k needed to get a copy so would dearly love to find the eBook to keep me going while I save up. Although the Mayas of the Yucatan didn't have any (known) mechanicals as such (although hotly debatable I grant), they did "invent" the Temazcal steam-powered sauna - in a panorama shaped building, for the after-football game (with human head natch) "bath"
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Thylacine
master brummie
The City of London Library, in a catalogue entry for a copy of the "Church" print, gives the title: "Dr Church's London and Birmingham steam coach built at Birmingham, 1833 / John Cooke delin, engd by Josiah Allen ...; published by Josiah Allen, Birmingham, and by Messrs Achermann, Tilt and Fuller's, London"; physical description: "1; art print; line engraving, coloured; 168 x 248mm, 238 x 248mm"; notes: "Shows a toll-house in the distance. Road-mender on left".
This sounds very much like what we have called the "Allen Mark 2" engraving. "John Cooke delin" confirms that "John Cooke" was the name of the original painter or draughtsman. The question is: was John Cooke Bourne calling himself (and signing his work) "John Cooke" in 1833? If "Cooke" was his mother's maiden name, it is possible that a hot-headed young J C Bourne, after a row with his father ("The Mad Hatter"), took revenge by renaming himself thus. But we must beware of wishful thinking: more evidence is needed.
This sounds very much like what we have called the "Allen Mark 2" engraving. "John Cooke delin" confirms that "John Cooke" was the name of the original painter or draughtsman. The question is: was John Cooke Bourne calling himself (and signing his work) "John Cooke" in 1833? If "Cooke" was his mother's maiden name, it is possible that a hot-headed young J C Bourne, after a row with his father ("The Mad Hatter"), took revenge by renaming himself thus. But we must beware of wishful thinking: more evidence is needed.
Thylacine
master brummie
Another small piece of circumstantial evidence: this picture of the City of London Library "Church" print referred to in the last post corrects the London publishers' names to Ackermann & Co, S & J Fuller and Charles Tilt. And this catalogue entry for an 1837 J C Bourne print gives the publishers as J C Bourne and Ackermann & Co.
Thylacine
master brummie
Re: Who Painted the "Church Oil"?
We certainly haven't seen much of Motorman recently in the BSB classroom. Perhaps he's gone in search of "the wimmin". The last I saw of him, he was resting his "beautiful mind" over on MRED, while enjoying a glass of "distilled Scottish steam".
Or Penfold for that matter. Perhaps he's piloting passengers around Pershore (somewhere in Worcestershire anyway).
I hope they're not tiring of BSB ... (Nah! ... they'll be back!).
We certainly haven't seen much of Motorman recently in the BSB classroom. Perhaps he's gone in search of "the wimmin".
The last I saw of him, he was resting his "beautiful mind" over on MRED, while enjoying a glass of "distilled Scottish steam".Or Penfold for that matter. Perhaps he's piloting passengers around Pershore (somewhere in Worcestershire anyway).
I hope they're not tiring of BSB ... (Nah! ... they'll be back!).
Aidan
master brummie
Good finds Thylacine. We are doing well (and your alliteration is much improving), especially with new classmate Keith, but I do miss the cut-n-thrust of the old quorum (and the girls natch!).
I must introduce the English logician, theologian and Franciscan friar William of Ockham's Razor or "entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem" at this juncture before we go too far down "The Bourne Identity" (careful you don't get nicked).
Nice to see the White Church safely housed in the London Guildhall archives. Now were they the same machine resprayed or just re-imagined by the colourist? I think we have already discussed the similarity of the pictures but can't completely rule out that they are separate representations.
The Grovesnor Print shows Bourne's representation of what must be somewhere close to me around Wolverton the once "home of steam rail". I can't think where this large embankment is though but here is a streetview of the bridge over Wolverton station leading to the town https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&...=blB43um-TObuS5iXNdhWMg&cbp=12,169.25,,0,7.21
The site is also selling what I would humbly suggest for this thread's team song or signature tune. Ok it was originally written to celebrate the opening of the Great Malvern Station in 1860 by the Worcester & Hereford Railway but easily adapted, especially as we can add a drop of Malvern Water to our glass of "distilled Scottish steam" (surely the thread/team drink) once we get there on Lloyds stretch steam-carriage... (Chorus - to the tune of "Yankee Doodle" apparently):
So rise the steam and come along,
Old and young, come hither,
And taste the Water, which, they say,
Will make you live for ever.
I must introduce the English logician, theologian and Franciscan friar William of Ockham's Razor or "entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem" at this juncture before we go too far down "The Bourne Identity" (careful you don't get nicked).
Nice to see the White Church safely housed in the London Guildhall archives. Now were they the same machine resprayed or just re-imagined by the colourist? I think we have already discussed the similarity of the pictures but can't completely rule out that they are separate representations.
The Grovesnor Print shows Bourne's representation of what must be somewhere close to me around Wolverton the once "home of steam rail". I can't think where this large embankment is though but here is a streetview of the bridge over Wolverton station leading to the town https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&...=blB43um-TObuS5iXNdhWMg&cbp=12,169.25,,0,7.21
The site is also selling what I would humbly suggest for this thread's team song or signature tune. Ok it was originally written to celebrate the opening of the Great Malvern Station in 1860 by the Worcester & Hereford Railway but easily adapted, especially as we can add a drop of Malvern Water to our glass of "distilled Scottish steam" (surely the thread/team drink) once we get there on Lloyds stretch steam-carriage... (Chorus - to the tune of "Yankee Doodle" apparently):
So rise the steam and come along,
Old and young, come hither,
And taste the Water, which, they say,
Will make you live for ever.
Thylacine
master brummie
Alexander Gordon on the "Heaton" Steam Drag 1834.
[Great form, as usual, Molesworth! But let me post this (while it's on my clipboard). The following account of the Heaton steam drag and its excursion to Bromsgrove are taken from:
Alexander Gordon. A Treatise Upon elemental Locomotion, and Interior Communication, Wherein Are Explained and Illustrated, The History, Practice, and Prospects of Steam Carriages; and the Comparative Value of Turnpike Roads, Railways, and Canals. Second Edition, Improved and Enlarged, With an Appendix, and a New Set of Plates. London: Thomas Tegg & Son, 1834. Pp 121-124.
This is the best technical account we have seen so far of the "Heaton", though the multiplicity of crank-shafts and toothed wheels make me wish that Mr Gordon had seen fit to include a picture of the machine (thus saving a thousand words). (We are still waiting for a picture of the "Heaton"). I have included the description of the renowned "Lecky Hill" expedition of 28 August 1833, even though we have had much of it already from contemporary press reports, since Mr Gordon's expert appraisal is valuable. Observe also what might be the earliest report of "fuel consumption" (half a bushel of coke per mile).]
Messrs Heatons Brothers steam-drag has been much talked of. The boiler and fire-place are very much like those of the locomotive engines in use upon the Liverpool and Manchester railway (described in our Chapter upon Boilers). This machine is placed upon four wheels, the front and hind wheels being of much the same size and relative proportions as those of other heavy carriages. The frame, or rough body for the engines, boiler, and machinery, is placed upon the springs, which are situated upon the ends of the axletrees, near the inside of the naves. The front axletree is straight (i e not cranked) and fixed; the wheels turning upon it, as in other carriages. The axle of the two hind wheels is also straight, and not cranked. The boiler is swung upon the frame on springs, with the fire-place projecting beyond the hind wheels. At the farther end of this boiler, and in the centre of this body, are placed two vertical cylinders, each seven inches diameter and twelve inches stroke, and under them is the water tank. Above the two cylinders, and extending across the carriage, is the crank-shaft, with the two cranks at right angles, to which the two piston rods of the two engines are immediately connected. Upon this crank-shaft are three toothed wheels, which communicate the power to three similar toothed wheels upon another cranked shaft, which is placed parallel to the crank-shaft of the engines. These wheels are made so as to slide upon the shaft when it is desirable to alter the relative speed of the carriage and the engines, and the patentees are by this arrangement enabled to employ a greater power when ascending an inclined plane, by making the carriage travel slower, whilst the engines are working with the speed at which they are constructed to work with the greatest advantage. (See page 26.)
The carriage is propelled by the adhesion or friction of the hind wheels upon the road, the connexion from the engines to these wheels being made in the following manner: — On the spokes of each hind wheel is fixed a ring of smaller diameter than the wheel, upon the periphery of which are teeth. These teeth of the ring work into corresponding teeth in a smaller toothed wheel, fixed on a crank-shaft above, the centre of which is parallel to the centre of the hind axle. This last-mentioned crank-shaft is put in motion by the second crank-shaft, which we spoke of, and by this arrangement the power of the engines is communicated from the engine crank-shaft by means of toothed wheels to another crank-shaft; from thence the power is communicated by two horizontal connecting-rods to another crank-shaft, and from thence it puts the driving or hind wheels of the carriage in motion, by means of other toothed wheels. These numerous parts may reasonably be supposed superfluous, when the simple arrangement of Mr Hancock (see p 108, also plate VIII, fig 2) is known. The hind wheels of Messrs Heatons' carriage are loose upon the axletree, but furnished with ratchet teeth, which may be acted on by corresponding catches fixed on the ends of the axle, so that either wheel is allowed to advance farther than the other in turning a corner. The arrangement for turning is very similar to other steamers. The steam is supplied and regulated, or stopped off from the engines, by means of a clog, in which the guide's foot is placed; by the flexion or extension of his leg the clog is moved backwards or forwards, and the throttle-cock is opened or shut; thus the guide's hands are at perfect liberty to steer the vehicle.
In the month of August, 1833, the patentees had a very good run with a steam-drag of the above description, but in ascending the Lecky Hill, near Birmingham, on the road to Worcester, part of the machinery was broken. This injury was in a few days repaired, and on the 28th of August they proceeded from their factory in Shadwell Street, Birmingham, to try the same road. Attached to the steam-drag was a stage-coach, weighing fifteen cwt, with fifteen passengers, about a ton weight, thereon. They picked up five more passengers shortly after starting, and arrived at Northfield, a distance of nearly seven miles, in fifty-six minutes. After taking in water, which occupied nine minutes, they started, and proceeded to ascend Lecky Hill, a rise of one in nine, and in some places one in eight. Many parts of the hill were very soft; but, by altering the connexion from the engines to the wheels, as we have above described, the drag, with the coach attached and nine persons, were conveyed to the summit, a distance of 700 yards, in nine minutes. After proceeding to Bromsgrove, the drag and carriage returned, and on descending the steepest part of the hill, they proved their power, by stopping suddenly. This Lecky Hill is certainly one of the worst upon any turnpike line in England. The coke consumed cost two shillings and six pence for this twenty-nine mile run, being rather less than half a bushel per mile.
The above account I have been obliged to cull from various sources; part of it I received from one of the patentees, and the whole was confirmed by Mr Macneill, who has witnessed the carriage travelling. The patent having merged into a company, managed by directors, I was refused permission to examine the carriage.
[Great form, as usual, Molesworth!
But let me post this (while it's on my clipboard). The following account of the Heaton steam drag and its excursion to Bromsgrove are taken from:Alexander Gordon. A Treatise Upon elemental Locomotion, and Interior Communication, Wherein Are Explained and Illustrated, The History, Practice, and Prospects of Steam Carriages; and the Comparative Value of Turnpike Roads, Railways, and Canals. Second Edition, Improved and Enlarged, With an Appendix, and a New Set of Plates. London: Thomas Tegg & Son, 1834. Pp 121-124.
This is the best technical account we have seen so far of the "Heaton", though the multiplicity of crank-shafts and toothed wheels make me wish that Mr Gordon had seen fit to include a picture of the machine (thus saving a thousand words). (We are still waiting for a picture of the "Heaton"). I have included the description of the renowned "Lecky Hill" expedition of 28 August 1833, even though we have had much of it already from contemporary press reports, since Mr Gordon's expert appraisal is valuable. Observe also what might be the earliest report of "fuel consumption" (half a bushel of coke per mile).]
Messrs Heatons Brothers steam-drag has been much talked of. The boiler and fire-place are very much like those of the locomotive engines in use upon the Liverpool and Manchester railway (described in our Chapter upon Boilers). This machine is placed upon four wheels, the front and hind wheels being of much the same size and relative proportions as those of other heavy carriages. The frame, or rough body for the engines, boiler, and machinery, is placed upon the springs, which are situated upon the ends of the axletrees, near the inside of the naves. The front axletree is straight (i e not cranked) and fixed; the wheels turning upon it, as in other carriages. The axle of the two hind wheels is also straight, and not cranked. The boiler is swung upon the frame on springs, with the fire-place projecting beyond the hind wheels. At the farther end of this boiler, and in the centre of this body, are placed two vertical cylinders, each seven inches diameter and twelve inches stroke, and under them is the water tank. Above the two cylinders, and extending across the carriage, is the crank-shaft, with the two cranks at right angles, to which the two piston rods of the two engines are immediately connected. Upon this crank-shaft are three toothed wheels, which communicate the power to three similar toothed wheels upon another cranked shaft, which is placed parallel to the crank-shaft of the engines. These wheels are made so as to slide upon the shaft when it is desirable to alter the relative speed of the carriage and the engines, and the patentees are by this arrangement enabled to employ a greater power when ascending an inclined plane, by making the carriage travel slower, whilst the engines are working with the speed at which they are constructed to work with the greatest advantage. (See page 26.)
The carriage is propelled by the adhesion or friction of the hind wheels upon the road, the connexion from the engines to these wheels being made in the following manner: — On the spokes of each hind wheel is fixed a ring of smaller diameter than the wheel, upon the periphery of which are teeth. These teeth of the ring work into corresponding teeth in a smaller toothed wheel, fixed on a crank-shaft above, the centre of which is parallel to the centre of the hind axle. This last-mentioned crank-shaft is put in motion by the second crank-shaft, which we spoke of, and by this arrangement the power of the engines is communicated from the engine crank-shaft by means of toothed wheels to another crank-shaft; from thence the power is communicated by two horizontal connecting-rods to another crank-shaft, and from thence it puts the driving or hind wheels of the carriage in motion, by means of other toothed wheels. These numerous parts may reasonably be supposed superfluous, when the simple arrangement of Mr Hancock (see p 108, also plate VIII, fig 2) is known. The hind wheels of Messrs Heatons' carriage are loose upon the axletree, but furnished with ratchet teeth, which may be acted on by corresponding catches fixed on the ends of the axle, so that either wheel is allowed to advance farther than the other in turning a corner. The arrangement for turning is very similar to other steamers. The steam is supplied and regulated, or stopped off from the engines, by means of a clog, in which the guide's foot is placed; by the flexion or extension of his leg the clog is moved backwards or forwards, and the throttle-cock is opened or shut; thus the guide's hands are at perfect liberty to steer the vehicle.
In the month of August, 1833, the patentees had a very good run with a steam-drag of the above description, but in ascending the Lecky Hill, near Birmingham, on the road to Worcester, part of the machinery was broken. This injury was in a few days repaired, and on the 28th of August they proceeded from their factory in Shadwell Street, Birmingham, to try the same road. Attached to the steam-drag was a stage-coach, weighing fifteen cwt, with fifteen passengers, about a ton weight, thereon. They picked up five more passengers shortly after starting, and arrived at Northfield, a distance of nearly seven miles, in fifty-six minutes. After taking in water, which occupied nine minutes, they started, and proceeded to ascend Lecky Hill, a rise of one in nine, and in some places one in eight. Many parts of the hill were very soft; but, by altering the connexion from the engines to the wheels, as we have above described, the drag, with the coach attached and nine persons, were conveyed to the summit, a distance of 700 yards, in nine minutes. After proceeding to Bromsgrove, the drag and carriage returned, and on descending the steepest part of the hill, they proved their power, by stopping suddenly. This Lecky Hill is certainly one of the worst upon any turnpike line in England. The coke consumed cost two shillings and six pence for this twenty-nine mile run, being rather less than half a bushel per mile.
The above account I have been obliged to cull from various sources; part of it I received from one of the patentees, and the whole was confirmed by Mr Macneill, who has witnessed the carriage travelling. The patent having merged into a company, managed by directors, I was refused permission to examine the carriage.
Aidan
master brummie
Still can't turn up anything on the matrix or The Times apart from the mention of the Shadwell St & Bath St works in the excellent "tour of Birmingham's "toy"-making district as it was on a mid-October Friday in 1829" https://mises.org/daily/3072 and this in depth overview of one of the children, Reuben Heaton fishing-reels-R-us, on the great Astonbrook through Aston Manor site https://astonhistory.net/id165.html Hope the IMechE are in a sharing mood after their hols....
Thylacine
master brummie
George A Selgin's "Ramble 'Round Old Birmingham" looks like a fascinating article, Molesworth! A quick perusal reveals confirmation that Ralph Heaton II (founder of the Birmingham Mint) was indeed the fifth member of the "Heaton Brothers" barbershop quintet. I bet they used to harmonize beautifully on "So rise the steam and come along ...".
Well it's past my bedtime. See you all tomorrow! :sleepy:
Well it's past my bedtime. See you all tomorrow! :sleepy:
Keithfletcher
Keithfletcher
Re: Who Painted the "Church Oil"?
Despite what Science & Society say, Josiah Allen was not an artist, but a printer and publisher, The "John Cooke" print is attributed "John Cooke. Delin. Engrd. by Josiah Allen. Birm". and the imprint is "Published by Josiah Allen Birmingham & by Messrs, Ackermann, Tilt & Fuller. London". I would take this to mean that it was engraved 'in house' in the Allen printing shop. I don't know John Cooke, and find no trace of him in the usual reference works, but perhaps he was also an 'in house' draughtsman put to producing a cleaned up and publishable version of my oil painting. There is no way I could attribute the oil painting to J.C.Bourne (an artist of a different quality altogether.) I suspect the doctor wanted a souvenir of his splendid monstrosity and asked the nearest artist to do him one. By the way, according to Prosser: Birmingham Inventors and Inventions. (reprint) Wakefield 1970 Church's obituary appeared in the Birmingham Daily Post 23. April 1864. And by another way, according to Kidner : First Hundred Road Motors. Oakwood Press, 1950 Church's Coach was built by Bramah, presumably Joseph's sons who had already built a steam carriage for Julius Griffith in 1821.
,
Despite what Science & Society say, Josiah Allen was not an artist, but a printer and publisher, The "John Cooke" print is attributed "John Cooke. Delin. Engrd. by Josiah Allen. Birm". and the imprint is "Published by Josiah Allen Birmingham & by Messrs, Ackermann, Tilt & Fuller. London". I would take this to mean that it was engraved 'in house' in the Allen printing shop. I don't know John Cooke, and find no trace of him in the usual reference works, but perhaps he was also an 'in house' draughtsman put to producing a cleaned up and publishable version of my oil painting. There is no way I could attribute the oil painting to J.C.Bourne (an artist of a different quality altogether.) I suspect the doctor wanted a souvenir of his splendid monstrosity and asked the nearest artist to do him one. By the way, according to Prosser: Birmingham Inventors and Inventions. (reprint) Wakefield 1970 Church's obituary appeared in the Birmingham Daily Post 23. April 1864. And by another way, according to Kidner : First Hundred Road Motors. Oakwood Press, 1950 Church's Coach was built by Bramah, presumably Joseph's sons who had already built a steam carriage for Julius Griffith in 1821.
Keithfletcher
Keithfletcher
Re: Alexander Gordon on the "Heaton" Steam Drag 1834.
Working drawings of the Heaton Brothers drag of 1832 were, in the 1950's and presumably still are, in the Birmingham Central Library.
Working drawings of the Heaton Brothers drag of 1832 were, in the 1950's and presumably still are, in the Birmingham Central Library.
Aidan
master brummie
Engineer's And Mechanic's Encyclopaedia gives a pic of Griffith's of Brompton Crescent London 20/12/1821 patent but dismisses it as "designed by foreigners" and the trusty Gordon gets his dagger out too "We are not aware that Mr. Griffith's carriage ever made any public demonstrations of its working powers; but Mr. A. Gordon states that the chief difficulty which Mr. Griffith had to contend with, was the liability of having all the water blown out of the tubes, by the pressure of the steam on the lower part; no provision having been made for allowing the water to return, or for maintaining an equilibrium of pressure"
However, that did not seem to stop The Mirror of 15/01/1823 giving it a full page spread with lovely picture (and not page3 either!). The text noting it was built by Mr F.Bramah of Pimlico https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...wBg#v=onepage&q=Julius Griffith steam&f=false I also attach a pic from an interesting French site where someone has been out with the Penfold colouring system https://www.vip-gpe.com/genealogie/
The Church build by Joseph Bramah's sons is an interesting possibility especially as you inferred the bodywork was of pressed steel. We need to find F.Bramah of Pimlico...Likely Francis Bramah (1786-1840) https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...EwAg#v=onepage&q=bramah pimlico steam&f=false but I don't see the Birmingham connection here - unless there was an unrecorded Pimlico-Birmingham run?
I also attach the Obit for Dr Church - a splendid find - Birmingham Daily Post, Saturday, April 23, 1864; Issue 1808
This leads to the *possibility* of the first genealogical record I think - https://pilot.familysearch.org/reco...=recordimage&c=fs:1473015&r=r_850437158&pn=p4
Tried BMagic but can't find anything for heaton although it is in rebuild mode and not answering queries until funding permits (12th of never)
However, that did not seem to stop The Mirror of 15/01/1823 giving it a full page spread with lovely picture (and not page3 either!). The text noting it was built by Mr F.Bramah of Pimlico https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...wBg#v=onepage&q=Julius Griffith steam&f=false I also attach a pic from an interesting French site where someone has been out with the Penfold colouring system https://www.vip-gpe.com/genealogie/
The Church build by Joseph Bramah's sons is an interesting possibility especially as you inferred the bodywork was of pressed steel. We need to find F.Bramah of Pimlico...Likely Francis Bramah (1786-1840) https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...EwAg#v=onepage&q=bramah pimlico steam&f=false but I don't see the Birmingham connection here - unless there was an unrecorded Pimlico-Birmingham run?
I also attach the Obit for Dr Church - a splendid find - Birmingham Daily Post, Saturday, April 23, 1864; Issue 1808
This leads to the *possibility* of the first genealogical record I think - https://pilot.familysearch.org/reco...=recordimage&c=fs:1473015&r=r_850437158&pn=p4
Tried BMagic but can't find anything for heaton although it is in rebuild mode and not answering queries until funding permits (12th of never)
Aidan
master brummie
Strikes me from the Obit that Churchy appears as some sort of "Jim Morrison" of the inventing world - hope we can find the supposed link to his "Indian Hunter" spirit of New England 1630s - he must have loved telling That tale to the bewildered Brummies. Yet to run an Obit in the Birmingham post at all let alone 6months after his death on another continent must mean that the good Doctor had made a lasting impression.
Requiscat in Pace or RIP - your remarkable story lives again
Requiscat in Pace or RIP - your remarkable story lives again
Thylacine
master brummie
Good morning, gentlemen! Great progress while I was in the land of Nod, dreaming of steaming to Birmingham!
I think we can say that the J C Bourne hypothesis is scotched. Thanks, Prof Fletcher, for grounding us about this and revealing Josiah Allen's shop of anonymous artists. And for leading us to Dr Church's obituary (great find, Molesworth!). Wonderful developments!
I will transcribe the Dr Church obit ("My eyes! My eyes!") and post the text shortly.
I think we can say that the J C Bourne hypothesis is scotched. Thanks, Prof Fletcher, for grounding us about this and revealing Josiah Allen's shop of anonymous artists. And for leading us to Dr Church's obituary (great find, Molesworth!). Wonderful developments!
I will transcribe the Dr Church obit ("My eyes! My eyes!") and post the text shortly.
Thylacine
master brummie
Dr Church's Obituary 1864.
[From the Birmingham Daily Post (23 April 1864).]
THE LATE DR CHURCH.
Doctor Church, whose death has already been announced in the Daily Post, and whose name has been for many years familiar to the people of Birmingham, was in many respects a remarkable man. His ancestors emigrated from England to America about the year 1630. "Church", the "Indian hunter", well known in the early annals of New England, and renowned for his bravery and sagacity in defending the infant settlements against the invasions of the Indians, was one of this family. Doctor Church was born in the State of Vermont, and was educated for the medical profession. At an early age he evinced a love for mechanics and an inventive genius. When a boy, the use of steam power being then quite in its infancy, he constructed a steam engine. In the year 1811 he took out a patent for a screw propeller, and asserted that eventually the ocean would be navigated by steam. About the year 1818 he made a short visit to England, returning in the year 1822, for the purpose of constructing a printing press of his own design. He was engaged on this at the "Britannia", so called, in Lancaster Street, in this town [Birmingham]. The press was unique in many respects. One part of the plan was to set the type by keys, acted upon like those of the piano-forte, and much was said of it at the time, but the design was abandoned. The press, however, was finished, and was said by some to be superior to Napier's, then recently introduced; but the Times and other large establishments having supplied themselves with this latter, the business was not continued.
In the year 1825 the Doctor invented a mode of smelting iron by hot blast, and with anthracite coal, and took out a patent for the invention in America. The mode of using the hot blast was explained to a leading ironmaster of Staffordshire, who discouraged the attempt, on the ground that the coldest blast possible was required, and in consequence no patent was taken out in England. About ten to fifteen years afterwards Mr Neilson and a company at Glasgow took out a patent for the hot blast; and Mr Crane, formerly of Birmingham, took out a patent for smelting iron with anthracite coal. The former patent was said to have cleared to its proprietors the sum of £600,000. The invention made the iron trade of Scotland. Mr Neilson, Mr Baird's attorney, and Mr Crane, soon after the decision of the great iron case, "Neilson versus Baird", not having been previously aware of Dr Church's patent, fully admitted to the writer of this article, that it covered the whole ground of both of the English patents.
From the year 1825 downwards, Doctor Church was engaged in inventing and constructing machines for making spikes, nails, button shanks, hooks and eyes, etc, etc. That steam carriages could be propelled profitably on gravel roads, was a favourite theory with him, and he invented and built a carriage that was driven to Worcester and Coventry several times, under the superintendence and management of Mr Wakefield, senior, now of Harford Street. He built a railway engine on a plan of his own, which was run for a period on the railroad to Bristol; and he also invented a railway ticket machine, of great merit. So long ago as the year 1832 he proposed to lay down wires to London, and to communicate by electricity. Of late years he invented, in connection with a townsman [Samuel Aspinwall Goddard (1796-1886)], and constructed, with the aid of Mr Higgins, of Moseley Street, a breech-loading cannon, now generally admitted, by those who have the means of knowing, to be the best of any brought out, and probably the only one of them that will eventually be adopted. The Doctor took out, in all, above seventy patents for his own inventions — a work involving an amount of study, thought, and application painful to contemplate — nevertheless, he has said he never had a head-ache.
Doctor Church's mind was so fertile of invention, that as soon as the mechanical difficulty of that upon which he was engaged was overcome, he was apt to lose interest in it, and to commence on some other. Consequently promising undertakings were often left unfinished; but, notwithstanding, many useful and valuable inventions were brought to maturity, and thousands of persons, at the present time, are earning a livelihood or reaping benefit in making articles, or by using modes designed by him. Possessing inventive and mechanical abilities of the highest order, had he been associated, at an early period, with a good practical machinist and man of business, their productions would undoubtedly have ranked in the first-class. His information was general and extensive, and no one could hold converse with him without gaining useful knowledge. He was remarkably simple and temperate in his habits, and unpretending in his intercourse with others. Twice married, the last time in this town, he survived the second wife by about twelve years.
Five years since his son-in-law, residing in Vermont, a gentleman in affluent circumstances, invited him to spend the rest of his days with him. Being then eighty years of age, and incapable of further active exertion, he at once resolved to accept the invitation; and by the aid of a worthy borough Councillor, personally unknown to him, and a few friends, was enabled to embark for his native land. Birmingham on that day lost one of its most gifted citizens; and some old friends, who now drop the tear of sympathy to his memory, sorrowed that they should see his face no more.
The Doctor never accumulated money. His ambition, although he not unfrequently valued his inventions at a high figure, was not in that direction. He spent a long, studious, and laborious life in endeavouring to contribute to the wants and comforts of man; and, in passing off the stage, would console himself with the belief that the days allotted him had not been altogether spent in vain. He died on the 7th of October last from an attack of paralysis, but owing to an accident, his death was not communicated to his friends here until the present week. — REQUIESCAT IN PACE.
[From the Birmingham Daily Post (23 April 1864).]
THE LATE DR CHURCH.
Doctor Church, whose death has already been announced in the Daily Post, and whose name has been for many years familiar to the people of Birmingham, was in many respects a remarkable man. His ancestors emigrated from England to America about the year 1630. "Church", the "Indian hunter", well known in the early annals of New England, and renowned for his bravery and sagacity in defending the infant settlements against the invasions of the Indians, was one of this family. Doctor Church was born in the State of Vermont, and was educated for the medical profession. At an early age he evinced a love for mechanics and an inventive genius. When a boy, the use of steam power being then quite in its infancy, he constructed a steam engine. In the year 1811 he took out a patent for a screw propeller, and asserted that eventually the ocean would be navigated by steam. About the year 1818 he made a short visit to England, returning in the year 1822, for the purpose of constructing a printing press of his own design. He was engaged on this at the "Britannia", so called, in Lancaster Street, in this town [Birmingham]. The press was unique in many respects. One part of the plan was to set the type by keys, acted upon like those of the piano-forte, and much was said of it at the time, but the design was abandoned. The press, however, was finished, and was said by some to be superior to Napier's, then recently introduced; but the Times and other large establishments having supplied themselves with this latter, the business was not continued.
In the year 1825 the Doctor invented a mode of smelting iron by hot blast, and with anthracite coal, and took out a patent for the invention in America. The mode of using the hot blast was explained to a leading ironmaster of Staffordshire, who discouraged the attempt, on the ground that the coldest blast possible was required, and in consequence no patent was taken out in England. About ten to fifteen years afterwards Mr Neilson and a company at Glasgow took out a patent for the hot blast; and Mr Crane, formerly of Birmingham, took out a patent for smelting iron with anthracite coal. The former patent was said to have cleared to its proprietors the sum of £600,000. The invention made the iron trade of Scotland. Mr Neilson, Mr Baird's attorney, and Mr Crane, soon after the decision of the great iron case, "Neilson versus Baird", not having been previously aware of Dr Church's patent, fully admitted to the writer of this article, that it covered the whole ground of both of the English patents.
From the year 1825 downwards, Doctor Church was engaged in inventing and constructing machines for making spikes, nails, button shanks, hooks and eyes, etc, etc. That steam carriages could be propelled profitably on gravel roads, was a favourite theory with him, and he invented and built a carriage that was driven to Worcester and Coventry several times, under the superintendence and management of Mr Wakefield, senior, now of Harford Street. He built a railway engine on a plan of his own, which was run for a period on the railroad to Bristol; and he also invented a railway ticket machine, of great merit. So long ago as the year 1832 he proposed to lay down wires to London, and to communicate by electricity. Of late years he invented, in connection with a townsman [Samuel Aspinwall Goddard (1796-1886)], and constructed, with the aid of Mr Higgins, of Moseley Street, a breech-loading cannon, now generally admitted, by those who have the means of knowing, to be the best of any brought out, and probably the only one of them that will eventually be adopted. The Doctor took out, in all, above seventy patents for his own inventions — a work involving an amount of study, thought, and application painful to contemplate — nevertheless, he has said he never had a head-ache.
Doctor Church's mind was so fertile of invention, that as soon as the mechanical difficulty of that upon which he was engaged was overcome, he was apt to lose interest in it, and to commence on some other. Consequently promising undertakings were often left unfinished; but, notwithstanding, many useful and valuable inventions were brought to maturity, and thousands of persons, at the present time, are earning a livelihood or reaping benefit in making articles, or by using modes designed by him. Possessing inventive and mechanical abilities of the highest order, had he been associated, at an early period, with a good practical machinist and man of business, their productions would undoubtedly have ranked in the first-class. His information was general and extensive, and no one could hold converse with him without gaining useful knowledge. He was remarkably simple and temperate in his habits, and unpretending in his intercourse with others. Twice married, the last time in this town, he survived the second wife by about twelve years.
Five years since his son-in-law, residing in Vermont, a gentleman in affluent circumstances, invited him to spend the rest of his days with him. Being then eighty years of age, and incapable of further active exertion, he at once resolved to accept the invitation; and by the aid of a worthy borough Councillor, personally unknown to him, and a few friends, was enabled to embark for his native land. Birmingham on that day lost one of its most gifted citizens; and some old friends, who now drop the tear of sympathy to his memory, sorrowed that they should see his face no more.
The Doctor never accumulated money. His ambition, although he not unfrequently valued his inventions at a high figure, was not in that direction. He spent a long, studious, and laborious life in endeavouring to contribute to the wants and comforts of man; and, in passing off the stage, would console himself with the belief that the days allotted him had not been altogether spent in vain. He died on the 7th of October last from an attack of paralysis, but owing to an accident, his death was not communicated to his friends here until the present week. — REQUIESCAT IN PACE.
Aidan
master brummie
Thank you for transcribing Thylacine - we can now all drop the tear of sympathy to his memory but better, in the American tradition, to celebrate his legacy with trumpet blast as per his triumphal entry to Worcester - See, the conquering hero comes
Keithfletcher
Keithfletcher
No, not pressed steel. Weymann bodies were made of wood covered with fabric and coated with many layers of varnish/paint.
Aidan
master brummie
Another idea the good Doctor should have patented - Church Fabric Bodies
Ah, the force is strong with this one, eh Thylacine?
Ah, the force is strong with this one, eh Thylacine?
Thylacine
master brummie
All The Doctor needed was a good manager. But, poor as he was, I have no doubt that his long life was a happy one! I feel privileged to be a member of the BSB team that has revived his memory so handsomely. What we need now (like a rabbit out of a top hat) is a picture of our beloved Doctor.
[Sings: "So rise the steam and come along ...". Huzzas.
]
[Sings: "So rise the steam and come along ...". Huzzas.
]
Thylacine
master brummie
Re: Alexander Gordon on the "Heaton" Steam Drag 1834.
Thanks, Prof! Would one of our Brum-based classmates be so kind as to enquire / discover / view / copy / post?
Thanks, Prof! Would one of our Brum-based classmates be so kind as to enquire / discover / view / copy / post?