Birmingham buses

[daimlerman]

The last of the initial batch of post war A.E.C powered GOE reg buses used to run on the 25 route in the early mornings (GOE 555). It disappeared from our school run in about 1966/7..I remember it made a perculiar note from its pre-select box and a strange A.E.C, 7.7 ltr engine. If my memory is serving me well, i seem to remember the bell dringed rather than dinged.

Out of interest I emailed the museum at wythall to enquire what those buses cost just after the war..They were, apparently, around £3000 each! That was serious money back in those days but what value..turning in about 400,000 miles and close to 20 yrs slogging, I doubt my Diesel V.W Passat will see that out.

 

[Lloyd]

Certainly the bells on pre-war buses in Birmingham 'drringed', possibly those did too. (edit - Yes they did!)
AEC engined no. 1486 survives, having seen service as a staff bus for Elkes Biscuits at Uttoxeter after its Birmingham life, then it stood in a scrapyard for nearly 20 years. Looks good as new now, though!

 

[Degsy168]

Hi Guys,

I have more photos of the Birmingham buses of both the Daimler and Guy Arab examples. Could I prevail on your local knowledge as to the location at where the photos were taken ? - here are the first five as per the attachments for starters. More of these to follow.

Cheers

Degsy

 

[Alf]

degsy, they didn't pay to much attention to the Destination Blinds around then
I remember when the Conductors got off the Bus and worked with the Driver to get it right.

 

[Lloyd]

Nice photos, degsy.
JOJ 775 is in Moor Street, just passing the station. See 'Ringway Music' shop opposite.
JOJ 781 is in Victoria Square, passing the Council House main entrance.
JOJ 784 is on Castle Hill, Dudley.
JOJ 790 is in Stourbridge, working an ex-Midland Red route, note the 'S' over 'E' on the destination, that was a Midland Red code for blinds from Stourbridge Garage, so here's an ex-Birmingham bus fitted with an ex-Midland Red destination blind!

(As degsy's pictures have gone, I'll put mine in below)

 

[Lloyd]

I should have added:
JOJ 784 is also working an ex-Midland Red route in the early days of the WMPTE, but still retains its Birmingham destination blind. There being no suitable destination, it is wound to the end and just visible is the first display, 'Football Special'!

When the WMPTE took over the Midland Red services, depots, vehicles and staff in the West Midland County in 1974, there was a dire vehicle shortage and these 23 and 24 year old veterans were coaxed into running a few more years past their 'best before' date to keep services operating.

 

[dereklcg]

great bus pictures guy,s but i still have,nt and have asked a couple of times has anyone got a pic of a 43 bus to nechells green? happy days regards dereklcg..

 

[Richie]

great bus pictures guy,s but i still have,nt and have asked a couple of times has anyone got a pic of a 43 bus to nechells green? happy days regards dereklcg..

Where did it start off from,please? If it was anywhere near a cinema or theatre there might be one on view in my collection

 

[dereklcg]

i think it was old square and terminus was cuckoo bridge? i,m sure if not right someone will know. cheers derek.

 

[Lloyd]

Yes the 43 replaced the 7 trolleybus during the war, and ran from Old Square to Nechells.
Here's a couple of Nechells trolleybuses - I'll search for a 43 motorbus as soon as I get my photos out again.

 

[Richie]

Will keep my eye open too, in my visits to libraries in my own area for my day job.

Might be able to do swaps with correspondents nationally.

 

[Rupert]

Are those trolley buses modified petrol engined buses. Where they capable of both modes of opperation or were engines taken out and replaced by electric motors driving a propshaft to the back wheels. The radiators are still there.

 

[Lloyd]

They were bought from GEC, who sub-contracted the chassis order to Leyland, who supplied their standard type TD2 motorbus chassis without engine or gearbox, and a higher ratio rear axle (as the electric motors turn a lot faster then the petrol engines do). Under the bonnet is the electrical switchgear, and the motor just behind it - about where the motorbus gearbox would be.
Incidentally, these vehicles had problems when new - they didn't conform to the 'tilt test' requirement (how far a bus can lean before it falls over) and had to be lightened upstairs and made heavier below - lower deck handrails and seat frames were reputedly filled with lead, for instance, and the destination blinds and winding gear replaced with just 'Nechells' painted on the glass.
They ran until the Nechells route was converted to motorbus operation on 1st October 1940 due to the blackout regulations, and were then stored in the Tramways dept. paint shop in Sampson Road, behind Kyotts Lake Road works until the end of the war, and then as the Nechells Route was not going to be reconverted to trolleybus, scrapped.

 

[Goffy]

I remember, when I was a lad, I used to go on holiday to a farm in Herefordshire, this involved a trip into Birmingham on the 29/29a then to catch the Midland red 144 to Worcester before another bus onwards. Looking for a special trip on our new bus passes I put this journey into the website of Travel West Midlands and was amazed that the 144 still travels from Birmingham to Worcester some 60 years on.

 

[Lloyd]

Yes, the 144 still runs but you can't ride gems like this on it like you used to in the old days, Goffy!

 

[ragga]

In 1971 ....... I caught the 144 from the bull ring bus station ,
I went all the way to Malvern Hill on it .
Ragga

 

[Rupert]

In the old days I think the Worcester Bus used to run from .. was it Station Street just off Worcester Street, at the back of the old fish market. That seemed to be the terminous for some routes. Great bus above might even have been on that one. Just looking at the number...I had a motor bike with the number 426BHA fairly close.

 

[Lloyd]

Here's a closer number Rupert. It's taken somewhere in the Hurst St / Bromsgrove St area, note 'Hippodrome estates' office just to the right of the bus.

 

[Goffy]

I remember the Birmingham Corporation buses with their open platform at the back, you could run after the bus after it had left the stop and jump on, and how many times did you wait for the bus to stop before you got off. I used to get travel sick as a child and spent a lot of time on that platform. but am I right in saying that the Midland Red had concertina doors across that platform or was that much later?

 

[Lloyd]

Many Midland Red buses had doors, early ones had manual concertina ones at the front, later had electric automatic ones at the back. There were some open rear platform double deckers from the 40s to the 60s, but not the majority. Here's one with doors (although they're left open!) and two without.

 

[Lloyd]

Are those trolley buses modified petrol engined buses. Where they capable of both modes of operation or were engines taken out and replaced by electric motors driving a propshaft to the back wheels. The radiators are still there.

I knew I'd got a photo somewhere of 'under the bonnet' of one of the trolleybuses that looked like a motorbus.
There are 8 vertical switches (Contactors) with arc-arresters facing you, with a motor-driven exhauster (the silver thing below the contactors to provide vacuum for the brake servo). On the bulkhead are the fuses for internal lighting, which was arranged as four circuits of five lights wired in series, with 110 volt bulbs. The nominal 'line voltage' of the power drawn from the overhead was 550 volts DC.
Incidentally, in the original you can see the hole in the radiator top tank where the water pipe woukd have fitted!
The GEC badge on the radiator shows these buses' parentage: The Corporation accepted the GEC company's tender to supply the bus chassis, and GEC subcontracted the complete rolling frame to Leyland.
The driver would have had a 'go' and a 'stop' pedal, like today's automatic buses, but the skill of knowing when and how to 'notch up' was, like on a tram, learned by experience..

 

[john70]

In 1971 ....... I caught the 144 from the bull ring bus station ,
I went all the way to Malvern Hill on it .
Ragga

Heres a photo of the terminus at Malvern Wells, it was on the main A449, and the bus driver had to do a 3 point turn into the laybye, if I remember correctly it was a 5 hour round trip from Brum to Malvern Wells and back, but a route I allways enjoyed driving on in the 60s and early 70s.

 

[Lloyd]

It was indeed 5 hours for a round trip, a journey I too drove many times in the early 70s. Backing across the main road at Malvern Wells terminus wasn't as dangerous as you might think - the conductor(ess) stood in the road and blew a whistle to tell you it was safe to proceed, then blew it again if you got too close to the huge wooden shelter on the opposite side and threatened to push it down the hillside!

 

[ragga]

John & Lloyd ....... Did the 144 go into Great Malvern itself , looking
back to 1971 im quite sure we were dropped off
half way to witch cutting where our campsite was.
ragga

 

[Lloyd]

The 144 went after Worcester, through Powick (past the site of a civil war Battle at Powick Bridge), Bastonford, Newland then to Malvern Link at the foot of the hills, over the railway and up to Great Malvern, on through Wyche cutting to Malvern Wells where the turning point was. Sometimes we'd go on unofficially an extra mile or so through Little Malvern to British Camp and turn on the huge gravel car park opposite the pub. (Don't tell the Inspector!)
When the service became one-man-operated it terminated at Worcester, and connected with local service 44 to the Malverns.
I can remember the gas lights along the open road at Wyche cutting, I think they were on continuously and burnt off sewer gas.

 

[Lloyd]

Here's a map to show the locations along the side of the Malvern Hills. I've marked British Camp with a blue splodge!

(Sorry, Map lost when the site was 'hacked' a few years ago. If find it again I'll repost it.)

 

[john70]

Seem to remember being on the 144s the same time as yourself Lloyd, and passing each other somewhere along the way, as for going up to British camp I only did that once, in a Fleetline and while chatting to the conductoress I completly passed the Malvern Wells teminus, and found myself at British Camp, where I turned to come back, I remember the trees appeared very low, but I had gone through them going up without a thought., I know, very irresponsable, and shows what a lack of concentration by talking can do., felt very stupid.and was. learnt me a lesson though.

 

[gerry taylor]

I worked for the Midland RED at Sutton garage in 1957/8 as a conductor and would be given what were called "Station Street Extra's". These would be run during the summer. We would run empty into Birmingham, and park up in Station Street awaiting an Inspector to tell us where we were to go to. Droitwich or Stourport or Stratfor on Avon. Happy days.

 

[motorman-mike]

Like Lloyd and John I too worked the 144 from Digbeth Garage, firstly as a conductor and then later as a driver. My favourite time on it was the early 1960's when D7's and LD8's were the order of the day. The 3 point turn John remembers was with the longer D9 shown in his fine pic. It was a 2 point turn with the earlier shorter types. The first 144 out of Brum Mon to Sat left at 5-40a.m. and was known as the "newspaper bus", ferrying bundles of various newspapers to be dropped off en route. To ensure reliability and correct drop offs the same crew worked this journey every day (Driver "Cracker" Dewsbury and Conductor Arthur Lawley). Even after the papers were switched to van delivery in the later 60's these two were allowed to work this journey daily until their respective retirements. The 144 was timed at 20mph in the 1930's and still ran as such until the one man (Sorry, one person) buses took over.
Keeping to time was achieved by leaving Brum 5 mins late, arriving Worcester 5 mins early and leaving 5 mins late giving an unofficial 10 mins tea break there. Passengers expected and relied on the late departures and complained bitterly if a keen driver left on time and they missed the bus! During the daytime a can of tea was picked up from a cafe above Great Malvern (run by a Brummie) and the empty can returned on the way back. It was said Midland Red buses ran on tea instead of diesel back in those halcyon days

 

[john70]

Thanks Mike for the great memories you brought back, had forgotten most of the things you mentioned, be nice to hear a few more of your memories, you must have a hell of a lot. By the way, have you sorted that photo out yet you were going to send me. Regards. John70.