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St Gabriel's Italian Church Deritend

sheronb

master brummie
According to the army pensions my great grandfather James Henry battle was married here on the 16th April 1911, by the parish priest!! Now looking at this site:

https://www.bham.de/index_churches.html

I can see no mention of a RC St Gabriels??? does anyone know of it?
This family was before James Henry, church of England, and his brides family, Louisa Hinkley, I am trying to find out why and when they became Catholic.
 
Hi sheronb

Found this today at B,Ham Library

No 372.!6 April 1911
James Henry Battle full age Galvanizer 10c 5h Barn St.
Father Bernard Battle Galvanizer.
Married.
Louisa Hinkley (minor) 10c 5h Barn St.
Father George jones ? Hinkley. deceased. Striker
Witness's Sarah Hinkley (signed own name ) and Gillian Harper marked with X

Hope this helps.

Steerboy.
 
Hello Steerboy, many thanks for this!! Where did you find it? Does it say which church they married at? the father for Louisa, I have as Thomas Hinkley who died 1898c, I hope that is just a mistake;)
 
Hi Sheronb

I found your details while researching my own people at St Gabriels church Barn St Deritend/Bordesley.
The church as far as I am aware is C of E and it was favoured by many Boatmen as they lived local and was almost next door to Bordesley Wharf.
Unfortunately it was bombed during the WW2 and destroyed completely and as a consequence even the old records are either burnt or singed making them hard to read but in your case they were in good order.
Did you note that it shows Louisa's father deceased?.
Also I noted a Bernard Battle born 4 Dec 1887 parents Richard and Ellen he was Galvanizer and they lived in Barn St

So I must say I think the info is correct

Good hunting Steerboy
 
Hello Steerboy, thank you for that! The WW1 pensions stated they were Catholic, needs some more digging that, as they didn't marry in a Catholic church!

Louisas father, was dead by the time of her marriage, but is Thomas, not George, I have her cert, as for Bernard born 1887, thanks i didnt have him, Richard is Burnard, he changed his name as the feeling took him, I think, buts it's the correct family.

Many thanks for the look up, it was most kind of you.
 
My mother's parents, John Sheldon & Florence Butler, married in 1905 at St Gabriel's church in Barn Street. They then lived at 1/54 Leopold Street, Aston; does anyone have any photos or memories of this street?

Thank you, Graham.
 
Hello.. bombed 1n 1941, and not a picture to be found...:(
My family lived next door in early 1900...
Any help or info would be great
Cheers Simon.
 
Here is a picture from 1934 which , I think, shows St Gabriels in the distance to the right
mike
 

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Hi folks, anyone know what the heck this building in Central Deritend was, or anything about its history? I must have passed it a bezillion times in my life and always pondered its function....thanks.
 
It appears on maps between 1905 and 1916, but the first/only description on the maps is in 1952, when it is "warehouse"
Mike
 
It looks very Italianate, but I don't think its a water tower, and its difficult to see what you might 'store' in a big fancy tower like that. Odd. Very odd. Thanks anyway Mike.
 
As this area was known as the Italian quarter up until the middle of the last century, I always understood that this was an Italian Church built by subscription by the local community. I sure that very little research would show this to be true.

Phil
 
I can easily see why, but there is no road or street or even a path anywhere near it, and no photos of it in any of the books I have on old Brum, and thats over 50 now. You'd have thought there was SOME reference to it somewhere Dek. A lot of my oldsters come from Milk Street, Coventry St, Little Ann Street, and so do my Missuses, but no one ever mentioned it. I will try and get hold of Chinny, see if he knows owt.
 
Two maps of the area showing 2009 and then in 1901. There doesn't appear to be any Church or specific building listed on or around where this building is in the old map, and I doubt this building was built after 1901, although I could be way wrong. I will keep plodding on...
 
Here you are Dennis. ---You walk past a row of four shops. Look above the shop frontages to admire an attractive red brick and terracotta facade, the work of J.H.Hawkes and Son in 1906. The adjacent pair of shops [divided by the entry] were erected in the mid-19th century. The next building is deceptive. It was formerly the St Edmunds' Boys' Home. Behind this is the architectural oddity [pictured to the left]. Featuring a fine Roman campanile, the structure was built privately as the chapel of a hostel for working boys by Father John Lopes. He was an Anglo-Catholic clergyman who in 1915, before the building was finished, joined the Church of Rome. The small basilican church was never used for services. Indeed, it has always served secular purposes. Continue to the next row of shops. These were built around 1860. Notice the street sign that marks the boundary between Deritend and Bordesley, both parishes were originally part of Aston and not Birmingham. Rebuilt with Gothic elements, The Rainbow was rebuilt in the mid-1870's though a pub of this name has traded on the corner of Adderley Street for 200 years or more. For much of the 20th century, the pub was operated by Atkinson's brewery of Aston
 
Can't see a picture, am I supposed to? But the narrative is fantastic John. I can rest in peace now. You are a scholar and a gentleman Sir. Mind how you go in them Brighton Pubs, I always get royally ratted with all my great mates from the Royal Sussex (ex Brighton General) labs down there when we troll down a few times a year....
 
Dennis I did a quick search, I believe it has been discussed before, but cannot remember when.
I got this from the Anchor Inn website.
When you have a pub in the family like myself (WAGGON and HORSES ) you don't do much pub crawling.
Kind regards John.
 
There was something on the web about this, think it was a church that was never consecrated. Not too sure but will have a look, I'm going down there sometime as quite a few of my ancestors, back to the1600s lived in the Digbeth are, charmingly called a Hamlet. If I find out anymore I'll put it on here.
 
Dennis, this picture (by "kate&drew" on flickr) of the Deritend "almost church" is rather good, and confirms John's story. It's supposed to look like San Giorgio Maggiore "in Rome". But shouldn't that be "in Venice"? Perhaps it's me, but I can't see much of a resemblance. Maybe there is another one in Rome that looks just like your Deritend edifice.
 
Courtesy of Elliott Brown at flickr, here's a close-up of the Lopes' Chapel tower (sorry, campanile). Mr Brown states that the Grade II listed building was erected circa 1898-1900. He has other pictures on display. Is it possible to examine the Grade II listing on line?
 
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Superb research chaps and chapesses. Thylacine (wombatticus ferretus), you are a true diamond geezer. I am made up. Now for another possible ecclesiastical conundrum. This is a building just round the back of the Campanile in Deritend, in Oxford Street (Dreaming Spires it ain't) that has just undergone a make over, and is currently being advertised for Warehousing or Offices as the 'Roberts Building'. It is conveniently situated dead opposite the Old Wharf Pub (if any potential customer is so encouraged), and I would like to know what it was in its previous life. Fire away...
 
Thanks Dennis for raising the topic, used to be an Esso petrol station infront and used to fill up everyday saw the building but never gave it a second thought, I wonder how many have passed it by on the train and done the same, just shows whats around us if we just look
 
Well I certainly did for 58 of my 68 conscious years dwilly. This Site has some truly amazing sleuths and historians. I'd been pottering about in my own little Old Brum World for 10 years, since I started Family History research, never dreaming that there might be like minded souls interested in the' golden olden days'. My uncle pointed this out to me a year ago and it's been a fantastic roller coaster ride for me ever since. I'm here for the duration now... bring it on!
 
[Before we leave the Lopes Chapel, here's a short biography of John Ludlow Lopes (9 April 1882 – 18 September 1961). Sadly, it is not very forthcoming about his time in Birmingham, but it does illustrate his weakness for Romanesque basilicas. Text and picture from Eynsham Online. Sorry, Dennis, this is probably "too much information"! ;)]
Father John Lopes was ordained as a Church of England priest in 1907 after studying at Exeter College, Oxford and at Ely Theological College. He came from a wealthy family and contributed generously to church building funds in his parishes, with a taste for the Romanesque style evident as early as 1909 at St Basil's in Deritend.

In 1914-15 he converted to Roman Catholicism and was eventually ordained deacon at Monte Cassino. There he developed an interest in the Benedictine order that later influenced his decision to settle in Eynsham. He was Chaplain of Cambridge University from 1922 until coming to West Oxfordshire as resident priest in 1928.

In 1929 Father Lopes set up the new parish of St Peter's in Eynsham, six miles east of Witney. Larger Catholic communities existed to the west, but the village held a particular attraction as the former site of an influential Benedictine Abbey. He moved to "Llandaff" in Thames Street before buying "the White House" in Mill Street and quickly became a familiar figure, holding Masses in the Bartholomew Room, Market Square, in the absence of a Catholic church.

Father Lopes continued to hope for a new Benedictine community in Eynsham for his next 32 years. In 1939 he commissioned Oxford architect Gilbert Flavel to design a splendid Romanesque basilica to encourage the foundation of a new abbey.

Only a part of his dream was realised, with the sanctuary which now forms the baptistry at the eastern entrance of the present church. He set about acquiring part of the original Abbey grounds as the only fitting site for the basilica. As luck would have it the land was owned by Mrs Emma Payton Pimm, of a prominent local family. After protracted discussions a two-acre plot of land was acquired — on condition that any church should be built by her family's firm.

A wooden building was used for many years, but Father never let the humble "wooden hut" limit his horizons. Parishioner Noel Green recalls "a great lover of the liturgy [who] never allowed the paucity of his surroundings or the slimness of his congregation to inhibit him" ... whose erudite but extended homilies created outbreaks of rebellion among his own brood.

Father Lopes also became much involved in village life, serving many years on the Parish, District and County Councils. His contribution was recognised when a road was named after him (though most villagers now rhyme it with "slopes" rather than "Lopez").

Canon Alphonsus de Zlueta described a "man with grand ideas, with a greater sense of demand than of supply. [He] got through two fortunes in church building and grand living, always full of hospitality, kindness ... and much charity." He is still remembered in his later years as a man of great vitality, a lover of conversation who retained an interest in all aspects of life.

In the immediate post-war years and the 1950s the building project stalled for lack of funds and diocesan / parish support. Father Lopes held firm, encouraged by influential friends like Monsignor Alfred Gilbey and his stalwart church warden, John Pimm.

Father Lopes, an ecumenist at heart, was a great friend of the Anglican vicar of Eynsham, Reverend Stuart Blanch, later Archbishop of York. They delighted in swapping Anglican and Catholic newspapers and together published a regular bulletin with news and notices of the Eynsham churches, a forerunner perhaps of today's Roundabout magazine.

In 1959 Father Lopes retired to St Joseph's Nursing Home on Boars Hill. He would sometimes take a taxi to Eynsham and say Mass in stockinged feet, his enthusiasm for the liturgy and for extended homilies undiminished. He died on 18 September 1961 in his eightieth year, much loved and mourned by all whose lives he had touched; and was buried at Eynsham on 23 September after a Requiem Mass at Blackfriars.​

[Note added: The Catholic Archdiocese of Birmingham has the John Ludlow Lopes papers in their archive. Their website inform us that after being ordained Roman Catholic Priest on 21 September 1918 he served for three years as Curate of English Martyrs at Sparkhill.]
 
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WHAAAT?? There is no such animal as 'too much information' on this site Devil. As you said in some other post, the thrill of the chase and the unearthing snippets of unusual links to all sorts of other (sometimes non-sequiteur) tangents is what I truly enjoy. Bring them on!!! This is great research (again) and zings with fascinating relevance. Mucho grassyass Cobber. There is an old saying that "the Devil's in the details". Well, thank the Lord you are Sir...
 
Dennis
It seems to be : 58 Oxford St: Walker Thos. & Son Lim.manufrs. of the harpoon ship log &c, In 1889 the bit nearest the corner was the Ignis Works, making fenders & fire irons, and the bit nearer the viaduct was the ships log and sounding machine works. It looks like about 1911-12 (the 1912 map shows a blank space for where the Ignis works was, and building says rebuilt 1911) the two were combined into one. They were still there in 1973. I always thought a ships log was what they wrote the days happenings in. Perhaps someone with a nautical bent can tell me what these sort of ships logs were.
Mike
 
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