See Birmingham by Post Card

[motorman-mike]

Correct Phil and that has to be a really early view from the size of gas lamp there on a main road like the Stratford Road.
Decades away in the future, was to come this "thing" on the opposite side of the City. Hardly pretty but at least it has been painted now and lit up at night to doll it up a bit.





Unable to replace this attachment as I cant work out what it was

 

[Phil]

Mike it must be early, its before they built the library and baths.

Heres a nice early one of Kings Norton Village.

Phil

 

[motorman-mike]

Sparkhill again. The terraced housing has given way to the library, but was the library originally built as a Town Hall or part of one because Sparkhill wasn't part of Birmingham at one time? I think I read that somewhere but could be wrong. Compared to Phil's view above, changes have also been made to the frontage and side shown there. (Have we got two different buildings here by any chance??)



Unable to reproduce original photo

 

[Lloyd]

It was Yardley District Council Offices, mike. See https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/GenerateContent?CONTENT_ITEM_ID=2525&CONTENT_ITEM_TYPE=0&MENU_ID=5245

The steam tram was on its last days here, note the overhead electric wire is already in place, and Corporation electric cars replaced company steam trams on January 1st 1907. This dates this shot as December 1906.

 

[Phil]

On this one the whole combination is titled Sparkhill Council House.

Phil

 

[motorman-mike]

Thank you Lloyd and Phil. That last view was just right to confirm the changes to the Police Station building that I mentioned and I was pleased to see that what I wasn't sure about turned out right about there being a Town Hall.
Mike
It's back to the City Centre and fast forward to the early 1960's for another look at Victoria Square. Note the dayligt through th pillers of the Town Hall showing that the first old building had gone to make way for the New Central Library which itself is struggling for survival now.




This is the closest I can get to the original image

 

[Lloyd]

I do love the little details of these pictures. (As well as coveting the Ford Zephyr Zodiac!) What a pity that with the change of motor vehicle registration controls from local authorities to the Swansea quango, all of Birminghams records were binned. Many areas handed their records over to the local libraries for archiving, but in Birmingham they all were scrapped. We could have found out who owned POC 587, Austin A40 Somerset OOL 534 and Austin A125 'Princess' DOJ 744. Hey-ho.
Details. Note the white "Cross now" on the traffic light, a Green Man was a comic book martian back then. And the bus destination blind - for a short while Birmingham bought their blinds (printed on linen) from ECO, in London, who used the "Gill sans" typeface for the numbers, as did London Transport. Previous and subsequent blinds came from Norbury brothers, now owned by Tearnes Transfers in Hanley Street off Summer Lane who make most bus and rail number and coat of arms transfers.

 

[motorman-mike]

Good grief Lloyd, and I thought I was doing well with daylight through the Town Hall pillars!
Moving on around the corner and who remembers Joe Lyons Restaurant - I was in there quite often at lunchtimes between 1959 and 1961 whilst working in Congreve Street offices of the old Birmingham City Transport. How many folks also realise that Joe Lyons opened the Albany Hotel on Smallbrook Ringway, now the Holiday Inn.

 

[jennyann]

Great post cards and bus info. Amazing detail about the makers of the bus blinds and the typefaces used, etc. Most people would never have known that information.
The post card of Victoria Square shows an area that I was familiar with from way back. When attending school in Brum in the early l950's I would often walk up New Street to explore and catch the 5a outside the White Star Line shop right next to J. Lyons. I would love to look at the models of the ships cabins in the window. They were perfect right down to the last detail. I had no idea then that I would sail to Canada.

In later years I would find the shortest way across to Paradise Street from the bus stop just across from the Council House to my office in Queen's College Chambers where I worked for Kosset Carpets. This would be in l960.
Also, next door to Queens College Chambers was the shipping company Furness, Withy & Co, which always seem to have lots of people waiting to be served.

My father owned a black Austin Somerset just like the one in the post card so that brings back memories.

 

[motorman-mike]

Congreve Street well before I was born and in the year in which the Great War ended. Some 41 years later (1959) I would be working in the 2nd floor offices of the building on the corner nearest the camera. (The windows at pavement level were to the basement). For this card I have put the reverse on as well because it is worth seeing for the date posted and the postmark. The message was written with indelible pencil (who remembers those) - and it's a good job the postman didn't get the card wet or the message would have become a purple blur and Nellie in Monmouth would never know that Phyllis was having a lovely time and that it was snowing hard in Brum. The publisher of the card is a reminder of a famous City firm, Stanford and Mann who were proud to say it was of 'British Manufacture Throughout' Nice!




Sorry, once again unable to reproduce original image

 

[Phil]

This one is titled Steelhouse Lane. I would have thought it was a view from outside Snow Hill Station so therefore should be titled Colmore Row, looking towards Steelhouse Lane. Or was it part of Steelhouse Lane in those days?

Phil

 

[Lloyd]

I think it used to be Steelhouse Lane up to Livery Street then, but not certain.
Interesting to see the tram, one of the Handsworth cable cars wrongly coloured in Corporation colours blue & cream (in the wrong order, too, the cream was under the blue!) the cable trams were a private company and were dark red. An early electric tramcar can be seen in the distance further down Steelhouse Lane.

 

[Peter Walker]

PMC, that picture is a cracker. You're quite right, it's taken from Colmore Row, in front of Snow Hill Station, and Steelhouse Lane goes off to the left in the background. Although tghe photo has been heavily touched up, it is recognisable as showing one of the first 20 cars built new for Birmingham Corporation in 1904 after it had been given a top cover in 1905. Further, it is probably one of 1 - 10, which had a domed roof provided by Hurst Nelson, while the next ten had top covers from the United Electric Car Co a year later, which had less of a dome but were 3 inches lower. At that time the cars ran to Witton, and towards Perry Barr in stages from 1907. Those that survived World War 2 and withdrawal owing to premature failure, continued in service until 31 December 1949. I was on the last one from Martineau Street to Perry Barr and back to Miller Street depot.
The open top car on the right of the picture was a cable car which operated from Colmore Row along the Soho Road to New Inns, Holyhead Road. They werre replaced by corpration electric trams in 1911 and continued iun service until April 1939, byt the terminus nwas moved back to a loop round the front of Snow Hill Station.
Peter

 

[jennyann]

Such great knowledge Peter and Lloyd about the trams. I had never seen that particular post card before pmc1947. That building on the corner of Snow Hill and Steelhouse Lane would be the one where the opticians had their huge sign
of the bird reading a book...was it Scrivens... sign many years after this era?
Thanks for posting these cards.

 

[motorman-mike]

Beware of the dreaded Post Card artists! When it came to tinting the cards they seemed to get it wrong more often than right, especially for trams and buses. Wonder how close this one was.

 

[Lloyd]

Gosh, that's a weird one! I think more than the colour is wrong there, mike.
It looks again like a Handsworth Cable car (or a Bristol Road Battery Car, which were similar) picture stuck on to the original photo, a top deck roof drawn on and then copied.
As far as I can recall from the photos I've seen, those were the only 2 types to have that staircase and 'corner of the platform entrance' layout.
Is Peter Walker about? I'd like a second opinion on this one!

 

[Phil]

A post card depicting Birmingham's modern public transport of the day. I am unable to say where it was taken, but looking at the bus it could be New Street, Pype Hayes or Hagley Rd. I can't quite make out the other destination.

Phil

 

[Lloyd]

It is one of the six 1904 Milnes bodied Daimlers that was used to start what became the Midland Red bus operation, registered O 264-9.
The picture is taken in Sandon Road near its junction with Bearwood Road, as is the view here - note the 1st floor window that the bus is under is a short distance up the road in this view.

 

[motorman-mike]

Gosh, that's a weird one! I think more than the colour is wrong there, mike.
It looks again like a Handsworth Cable car (or a Bristol Road Battery Car, which were similar) picture stuck on to the original photo, a top deck roof drawn on and then copied.
As far as I can recall from the photos I've seen, those were the only 2 types to have that staircase and 'corner of the platform entrance' layout.
Is Peter Walker about? I'd like a second opinion on this one!

Looking at the card again but with the old magnifying glass there were adverts above the lower deck so that bit is seems genuine but the uneven spacing of the window pillars on the upper and lower decks make it look as though the top deck has been added by the artist. As there is no track evident in the road, has this tram been added before trams actually ran in Old Square? Sometimes things were added to or removed to update a view that had been taken well before the current view that you would see when you bought this card to send. Perhaps this was the case here, and only a stock view of a cable or accumulator car would fit the bill so as the steam loco wouldn't be seen. Hmmm, very interesting my dear Watson...
Time to go electric anyway and of interest in particular to Phil as it was posted to Mill Lane, Solihull without a house number.

 

[Rupert]

Unless it is parked there, the cable tram seems to be on the wrong side of the road to me. There is no driver at what should be the front.

 

[Peter Walker]

The tram on the left in the Old Square picture is almost certainly the back of a steam tram, operating on a regular service to Saltley, Perry Barr or Lozells, or possibly to Witton via Six Ways, from 1884/5 until 1907. They unloaderd at this point before pulling forward and turning twice right to load where the trolleys did later.
What is odd is the route destination letter which looks like a letter H. Could this possibly have been a route via Six Ways Aston turning left and left again into Wheeler Street, turning in Great Hampton Street near Great Hampton Row? H could stand for Hockley perhaps. [This is a very long shot]
So far as the corner entrance is concerned, this was standard practice on early horse, steam and cable cars, which almost disappeared in the 1890s.
Now what was that other vehicle in the picture.
It looks like the contraption Lloyd drove at a museum somewhere.
Peter

 

[Lloyd]

Yes, a steam tram passenger trailer. I hadn't thought of those.

 

[motorman-mike]

Lest folks should think we have been hijacked by the trams and buses Threads, here for a late night posting are the bright lights of Brum 1960's style on Smallbrook Ringway.

 

[Phil]

Enough talk of trams, buses, cable and steam. Lets have one to frighten the children and the ladies. I'm not sure if its a post card, but it looks like one.

Phil

 

[Phil]

Another one of the Bull Ring sometime in the mid 60's. Did I read somewhere that someone rescued the black bull that we can see on this card from a skip when the Bull Ring was being demolished.

Phil

 

[mikejee]

Peter
You asked what the other vehicle in old square was. I thought it looked a bit like the vans they use to transport prisoners to court. Couldn't find any horse drawn ones, but did find this picture of an american school bus, which has a certain similarity. Not birmingham though I'm afraid, not even Birm. Alabama

mike

 

[jennyann]

Hi pmc1947:

Unfortunately, only the rear end of the original Bull from the fascia of the Bull Ring building in the l960's version was saved by a fellow from a skip where he found it. No thought was given to preserving the original Bull. There was a new Bull coming on the scene and it seems that was all that mattered! Shame really.

 

[ASTONITE]

I think someone in a previous post suggested an index, it takes quite a long time to go through all the cards that have been posted, so there is always a danger of putting things on that have been on before,however ,here are some more views, apologies if they have been seen previously.

 

[Phil]

jennyann

Yes it is a shame, know the bull was not that old, but it was an icon of the Bull Ring for over 40 years, You would have thought somewhere could have been found to display it in its retirement years.

Phil

 

[Phil]

I cannot understand the predilection in this country of putting disasters on post cards. Did the pofits from such cards go to the disaster fund?

Phil