• Welcome to this forum . We are a worldwide group with a common interest in Birmingham and its history. While here, please follow a few simple rules. We ask that you respect other members, thank those who have helped you and please keep your contributions on-topic with the thread.

    We do hope you enjoy your visit. BHF Admin Team
  • HI folks the server that hosts the site completely died including the Hdd's and backups.
    Luckily i create an offsite backup once a week! this has now been restored so we have lost a few days posts.
    im still fixing things at the moment so bear with me and im still working on all images 90% are fine the others im working on now
    we are now using a backup solution

Memories of a Birmingham Musician (Drummer)!

Eddie,

Some names there! Bert Courtley was married to Kathy Stobart, and she came down to the Parkstone Jazz Club as one of our monthly guest several times during the 1970s as did Dave Shepherd, Don Rendall, and Alan Skidmore, Jimmy's son, who was on a sort of avant-garde kick then and quite a challenge to play with. If I remember correctly, Allan Ganley came down with Ronnie Scott and John Mealing on organ.

But show crowds were always fun to knock around with. The house next door to mine in Bournemouth was rented out to theatricals during the summer season and across the road were some theatrical digs frequented by Nicholas Smith (Mr Rumbold in Are You Being Served and the only surviving member of the original cast), who was generally appearing in one of the end of the pier plays, amongst others. Happy days!

Maurice
 
Lucky man, Eddie, but I still have a Fender amp, although it rarely gets its dust cover taken off these days. Mostly solid state these days, but very dependable.

Maurice
 
I cannot remember if I have told this story, but around 1957 I played a summer season at the Dreamland Ballroom in Margate. Eight of us in the band rented a large house for the summer.
The name over the door was BALMORAL, but some wag in the band changed it to ILLMORAL. The house next door was owned by the bar manager of one of the big pubs in the town, and he had his own very nice bar set up in the basement of his house. Late at night, after the gig finished we would all end up in this guys house, drinking until the early hours. We had to pay for the drinks, but I think that he managed to get a lot of it from his pub.

Many of the other musicians that appeared in Margate for the summer would also make for this guys house during the 'after hours'. The Billy Cotton Band, Ken McIntosh boys I remember. I think the guy that ran the bar made a fortune over the summer period.

At one point, early in the season, the road residents tried to get up a petition to get us moved, but this guy with the bar, who only lived next door, refused to sign it, so we were saved.

We were young, girls chased us, and the drink was available. But, but, but, no drugs, no fighting, no robbing, and we all kept out of trouble with the law. Tame really, by some of todays standards.

Eddie
 
Sounds like normal behaviour to me, Eddie. On a Friday night, after the Parkstone Jazz Club closed at 11:00pm - no late hours unless you were a proper club in those days and this just took placw in a pub owned by a drummer - we would all go for a curry. One of the Committee (who has only recently passed away) owned quite a large hotel, which was empty during the winter, so we took a drum kit and a bass, being a pianist he already had a decent grand piano, and we blew jazz until 7:00am the following morning. But, like you Eddie, there were no drugs. Being also a keen amateur winemaker, he had quite a large cellar, so we did tend to drink a fair amount. But I'd love to experience those days again.

Maurice
 
Eddie,

A few names there that ring a few bells, particularly Tommy McQuater, Colin Hulme & Andy Ross, though I was never really part of the ballroom dancing scene. I'm just trying to remember what years my brother-in-law was working with the Ivor Kirchin Band in Hull. They were a bunch of jazzers restrained by the ballroom scene, though it was only the ballroom scene and theatre pit orchestras that really provided jobs for bands of a decent size. Most hotel work was for quartets or trios, possibly with an added vocalist, and now it's singles and dues in the few hotels that employ bands.

Maurice
 
Maurice: Those were the days when most read music. Musicians would come and go in every band, and their replacement would be expected to walk right and play with the band, without any rehearsal. Cannot read music? Do not bother to apply for the job.

These days, because the majority of group members do not read music they always appear to want a lot of rehearsing when a new member joins. Both our daughters are excellent, trained musicians, our younger daughter is classically trained on piano, cello and classical guitar, with a Grade 8 Theory pass. She loves popular music, and plays in a middle of the road band. However, she is the only one that can read music, and she knows her part in about five minutes. She gets bored with the other members of the band, who will spend around two hours, just learning their parts, by ear. I sometimes ask her why she bothers, and she tells me that she loves the music, the other guys in the band are great people, and the money is always very good!

When the Jan Ralfini Band left for Sale Locarno, and Manchesters Ritz Ballroom, our replacement band at the Samson & Hercules ballroom in Norwich was the Basil Kirchen Band, Ivor's son. My fiancé, and future wife, was working in the ballroom when they arrived.

Monday night was dancers night. All th local waltz, foxtrox, quickstep, tango, etcetera 'experts'. They arrived, changed into their dancing shoes, and waited for the music to begin. Basil launched into a jazz piece, something like Kings Cross Climax, at a very up tempo speed. My wife told me that the dancers just sat there in amazement for about two minutes, and when the next few numbers were all the same, most of the dancers walked out in disgust. Basil was fired at the end of the week.

All those lovely ballrooms have now either closed down, or have been turned into bingo halls. Electronic music has taken over. The days of a nice evening dancing, talking to friends, and meeting people, have finished. These days you are lucky if you can hear yourself speak at a dance venue. I maybe old fashioned, but life was a little more laid back and graceful.

Eddie
 
Eddie,

I couldn't agree with you more, having been classically trained myself and joined the RAF Station Band where reading was compulsory as you were not only playing marches on parades, but also performing selections from the shows for dinner music, and later dancing, in the Officers' Mess at least once a month. We also performed at other stations too.

I also spent quite a bit of time backing cabaret a few years later in hotels and quite often didn't get a rehearsal before the act went on - you just read the parts after a talk through. I remember backing Lita Roza one night. She arrived with her little dogs and a minder at 7:30pm and was somewhat the worse for drink. As she wasn't due to go on until 11:00pm she sat in the bar drinking still more, so certainly wasn't capable of having a rehearsal, not even a talk through, and she could just about stand by the time she went on. Very sad really, but this was the mid-1960s and she was past her best by then. But all went off OK, even though it was a bit hair-raising at times.

You certainly had to know your clientele. At this same hotel we used to have a couple who were Festival of Britain Ballroom Champions come to stay four of five times a year. They used to like to perform their "party pieces" for fellow guests early in the evening, and this generally included a paso doble, and the tempos had to be just right. But the band was always rewarded with a smile and a drink and they didn't bother what you played after that! The band that followed us in were rockers, had big arguments with them, and were fired a month later!

A few years ago we had quite a big choir here amongst the foreign residents and I offered to do some arrangements for them, but out of the forty-odd members, only two could read music, so that didn't progress very far. It must be very frustrating for your daughter when she is sitting around waiting for others in the group of read numbers by ear, parrot fashion.

Maurice
 
That very good guitar player, Bert Weedon, carried two different sets of arrangements with him. When he was appearing at a venue where the 'musicians' could not read music, he would give them what he called 'the idiot parts'. These parts consisted of a few chords and the number of bars to play in each song.

His other set of arrangements were the full blown charts, with the written notes, and phrasing, for each musician. I worked with Bert a couple of times, and each time, thankfully, we played the full orchestrations.

I also worked with Lita Roza in a cabaret club in Leicester. Not very good, and her voice was really going downhill.

Eddie
 
People came to dance and have fun. We had no problem getting a full house at any of our dance's (DID WE EDDIE or TED?). We all read music and played what the dancers wanted. BUT JAZZ was different they came to listen to what the musician's could do, to be entertained not be part of it. Different strokes for different folks? We have in Parker.Colorado USA a Fred Astaire? dance studio. surprising how popular it is. BUT no big ballrooms anymore. All bowling alleys or some such. ONE NOTE All written music was improvised, by the composer and then put on paper. To be payed and enjoyed over and over. Jazz is a one time experience. Better? you have to be the judge of that. John Crump
 
I remember watching Lita Rosa on TV and my Nan saying she ought to give up and go home then, this would have been late 60's, I still have a 78 inch of dad's with her singing Hernando's Hideaway from the Pyjama Game. I think she passed away quite recently.
I don't know how bands would manage not being able to read but my son in law can't nor my mate and they are superb musicians. The S.I.L. and his partner are both deaf though because of their trade. I had piano lessons but my teacher was not the best and I gave up in my teens but it helped me to read a tune and get the right beat in the choir and to learn the guitar. I was talking to someone today who's choir she is in and the orchestra Rachmaninoff(was he man in enough?) saying it was too fast for their clarinetists and as long as only one of them ran out of puff they could stop and pick it up again without being noticed. Maybe Strictly Come Dancing will help for the return of the dance band?
 
My S.I.L bought a Rickenbacker guitar for half the normal price from a Japanese company on line, but we apart from him think it's a copy.
I was told to get an amp if I get good enough to perform to I guess I will need 2 one for the guitar and one for me. Don't have a loud voice one of my nicknames whispering Jack Smith.
 
Birmingham Just found some old jazz programmes in the loft:
StanKenton 1956 001.jpgCount Basie 1957 001.jpgDave Brubeck 1958 001.jpgDuke Ellington 1958 001.jpg
Stan Kenton Orchestra, Birmingham Town Hall, Saturday, April 7th, 1956
Count Basie Orchestra, Birmingham Town Hall, Saturday, April 20th, 1957
Dave Brubeck Quartet, Birmingham Town Hal, Saturday, February 15th, 1958
Duke Ellington Orchestra, Odeon Theatre, Tuesday, October 21st, 1958.

The Count Basie Orchestra next appeared at the Odeon Theatre on Thursday, March 5th, 1959.

I seem to recall that the Stan Kenton band were again appearing at Birmingham Town Hall, on, or about the time that John F. Kennedy was killed. November 22nd 1963.

Eddie
 

Attachments

  • Kenton 1956 001.jpg
    Kenton 1956 001.jpg
    614.8 KB · Views: 3
Eddie,

I missed the first Kenton & Basie concerts on your list as I was still away in the RAF, but I saw the rest and the various repeat visits that happened during the following years, some of which I saw in Bournemouth as I moved south in January 1961. All great events, the likes of which we can never see again, though I did see the Basie Revival Band at Birmingham's Symphony Hall a few years ago. Whilst I was still in the RAF, I also saw Lionel Hampton at the Victoria Hall, Hanley, and I believe that they also visited Brum on that tour.

Maurice
 
Quite right Maurice. Lionel Hampton did appear in Birmingham between October - November 1956, although I do not have the exact dates. The programme front cover of the tour, and a couple of the programme inserts. Pictured with our own Eric Delaney.

Hampton programme 001.jpgHampton & tom toms 001.jpgHampton with Eric Delaney 001.jpg
 
Eddie,

Thanks for those. Both showmen in their own ways - and accomplished too. And no one to compare them with in today's musical world. Everyone fights to make their own styles sought after (I use that phrase rather then "popular", which has a different connotation these days) and the ones that succeed come out on top. These two certainly did. Now things seem more subtle, more in the style of drummers like Paul Brodie and Adam Nussbaum, and vibists like Gary Burton, all three being musicians that I really appreciate. But you have to dig to find these guys - gone are the days of showmen such as Gene Krupa & Buddy Rich, who only found their way onto TV courtesy of Michael Parkinson. Now all that is gone, which is a great pity.

Maurice
 
Thanks for letting me know where I was on April 7th 1956. The Town Hall was packed and when the Stan Kenton Band performed "Peanut Vendor" I think the roof must have lifted a couple of inches.
Despite a lot of assistance from friends I've always been a poor appreciator of music until late in life (my wife still recons I'm tone deaf and can't carry a tune!)
I was lucky enough to be in a group that went often to The Town Hall and saw many of "The Greats", The Dutch Swing College and remember Johnny Dankworth introducing us to Cleo Laine.
How lucky were we !!
 
Many thanks guilbert53.

Yes, I was very much aware of Andy's passing. He was someone that was a friend for many years, and until he emigrated to the U.S.A. he was a regular visitor to my home. Not just a fine, and very much in demand drummer, on the London music, Andy was also a very fine pipe band drummer. In fact that is how he started his drumming career, and I would meet him in Scotland, together with his great friend Bobby Orr, another fine session drummer, who toured Europe with the Benny Goodman Band. Bobby was also a dear friend. They would both be there, kilts and full Scottish regalia. Both very proud Scots.Andy White 001.jpgAndy White.


I have read the Telegraph article, and whatever they say, Andy was certainly paid 5 guineas for the Beatles recording. I have seen the payment details. Older readers will know how much that was!

Eddie
 
After so many years of collecting records, and CD's, from the 1930's to the present day, I seem to have quite a collection. As I now deal in rare records, I am aware that some of them fall into that group, so now I am trying to sort them all out.

Obviously I have many songs, records by ensembles, bands, singers, that I dearly love, but I thought I would try to select my 20 top favourites. Very difficult, but here goes, and each of them holds a special memory. Not in any necessary order.

1). Benny Goodman Band 'Sing, Sing' Sing;
2). Duke Ellington Band 'Skin Deep';
3). Billy May Band 'If I Had You'
4). Buddy Rich Band 'West Side Story'
5). The Beatles 'If I Fell' - 'And I Love Her' (recorded at same session)
6). Marmalade 'Reflections Of My Life'
7). Frank Sinatra 'Stardust'
8). John Miles. 'Music - is My First Love'
10). Edward Elgar 'Nimbus'
11). Nielson. 'I Can't Live'
12). Dave Brubeck. 'Take Five'
13). Santana. 'Samba Pa Ti'
14). Ennio Murricone. 'Gabriel's Oboe' from The Mission
15). Bobby Darin. 'You Made Me Love You'
16). Artie Shaw Band. 'Stardust'....again!
17). Stan Kenton Band. 'Don't Take Your Love From Me'
18). Rimsky-Korsakov. 'Sheherazade'
19). Four Freshman. 'In This World Of Ordinary People, I'm Glad There is You' (our courting song)
20). Paul Tortellier. 'Air On A G String'

Just missing out......Doris Day 'Secret Love'; Al Jolson 'Rock a Bye Your Baby'; The Saints Jazz Band 'I Wanna Gal'; and Errol Garner 'Poor Butterfly'.

A real across the board selection of music that has shaped my 63 year career in the music business.

I would love to see posted other BHF members TOP TWENTY favourite songs, that they have enjoyed over the years.

Eddie
 
DSC02703.JPGMy oldest record is a 10" LP by my late Wife's favourite singer Frankie Laine called 'Mr Rhythm purchased in Hong Kong 1953. I did have some old 78's of Humphry Lyttleton bought in London about 1948 (I was into Blues/Jazz at the time and visited his concerts in Soho) but like a fool gave them away some years ago. Many years ago my taste in music changed an am now an avid Classical music fan Eric
 
Last edited:
My favourite 12 songs mostly have an association with a member of my family. So here goes, in no particular order:
1) Cheek to Cheek. Fred Astaire.
2) Pick Yourself Up. Fred Astaire.
3) Something tells me something's gonna happen tonight. Cilla Black.
4) Some enchanted evening. From South Pacific.
5) All I have to do is Dream. Everley Brothers.
6) Why. Anthony Newley.
7) California here I come. Al Jolson.
8) April Showers. Al Jolson.
9) What do you Want. Adam Faith.
10) There is a Green Hill Far Away. Hymn
11) I Believe. Frankie Laine.
12) Imagine all the People. John Lennon

Plus the Harry Lime theme from the Third Man, and the soundtrack to the film Genevieve. Dave
 
cookie273uk said:
View attachment 102615My oldest record is a 10" LP by my late Wife's favourite singer Frankie Laine called 'Mr Rhythm purchased in Hong Kong 1953. I did have some old 78's of Humphry Lyttleton bought in London about 1948 (I was into Blues/Jazz at the time and visited his concerts in Soho) but like a fool gave them away some years ago. Many years ago my taste in music changed an am now an avid Classical music fan Eric
Click to expand...

cookie273uk. Great singer: Mr. Rhythm was recorded in 1952. Book price today, in good condition, is £20, but money cannot replace memories. I saw Frankie Laine at the Birmingham Hippodrome around 1954.
Eddie
 
Some great songs in there, Dave.

I was always a great Al Jolson fan, after I saw The Jolson Story, and the Theme from the Third Man (Anton Karas playing the zither), will always remain a very haunting piece of music. Also nice to see you have included a Hymn

Thanks for your contribution.

Eddie
 
norfolkbrummie, saw Frankie Laine 3 times with my Wife, in 1953, once in Hong Kong (was in the RAF at Kai Tak ) and twice in the 60's at 'The Dome' and the 'Night Out' night clubs, might have the names wrong, one was in Bristol St and t'other in Lode Lane Solihull. He died some years ago in his 90's. 'Mr. Rhythm' is not for sale, still play it occasionally. Eric
 
Following details taken from a bi-monthly magazine called JAZZ MUSIC, and dated 1959.

Title: SOME JAZZ CLUBS OUTSIDE LONDON

BIRMINGHAM

Sidestream Jazz Club: Golden Cross, Aston Cross...... Resident band: Murray Smith and His Jazzmen, and the Murray Smith Quartet.
(Fridays & Sundays) Mainstream Jazz
Southside Jazz Club: Adam & Eve, Deritend..............Resident band: Charlie Powell & His New Orleans Southside Jazz Band.
(Fridays) New Orleans Jazz.
Birmingham Jazz Appreciation Society: Adan & Eve, Deritend....Band: Charlie Powell & His New Orleans Jazz Band.
(Club nights, Wednesdays. New Orleans Jazz
Midland Jazz Club:Digbeth Institute, Digbeth...............Resident band: Maryland Jazz Band.
(Thursdays). New Orleans Jazz
The Bournebrook: Bournebrook Hotel, Selly Oak........................Band: *The Johnny Beck Six.*
(Wednesdays). West Coast Jazz
Jazz at the Colosseum: Colosseum Ballroom, Smethwick).....................Various bands.
(Wednesdays) Modern Jazz
Golden Era Jazz Club: Bradford Street, Deritend,...........Resident band: The Golden Era Jazz Band.
(Tuesdays) New Orleans & Chicago Jazz
Rock Island Jazz Club: Royal Oak, Six Ways, Aston.......Resident band: Rock Island Jazz Band.
(Mondays) New Orleans Jazz

*Although the above details may be accurate to some degree, I can state that the Johnny Beck Six, by 1959, had disbanded, and the majority of the band, including myself, had left Birmingham for a professional career in music.

Eddie
 
Thanks Maurice.

I have already posted the story of how Ringo obtained the Ludwig drum kit. What I did not post was that the logo on the front of the bass drum i.e. "THE BEATLES", was written/painted onto the bass drum head, by a guy named Eddie Stokes, in London.

In fact I believe that Ringo had about four kits, all looking the same, and all with THE BEATLES logo on the bass drum head. This was because it was more practical to have a drum kit available in various countries, or cities, whilst touring.

Which kit is being auctioned?? Good question. I think he gave a couple of the kits away, and maybe his son Zak, now with The Who maybe has one.

Eddie
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top