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HI folks the server that hosts the site completely died including the Hdd's and backups.
Luckily i create an offsite backup once a week! this has now been restored so we have lost a few days posts.
im still fixing things at the moment so bear with me and im still working on all images 90% are fine the others im working on now
we are now using a backup solution
quite agree judy....the problem lies in the designing...the booths are so close together that only one can be opened at a time....as you say the e rolls were much more accessible when they were all out on the shelves...crazy idea if you ask me and not thought out well at all if they thought this would please the public
lyn
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https://www.birminghampost.co.uk/news/regional-affairs/job-threat-library-birmingham-opening-8262467
i have posted the above link so that we can keep it in our minds just what we are about to lose...
lyn
i have posted the above link so that we can keep it in our minds just what we are about to lose...
lyn
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Simon4130
master brummie
Some of you may know that I work in a large university library, I work behind a desk issuing books to readers for a lot of the time. In the past few years our staff numbers have been reduced by one third, departments have been merged, our working day has been extended while our opening hours have been reduced considerably and our pay cut by 10%. I'm here long enough to remember the good days not just for me but for our readers and researchers. In some cases they have to wait up to 6 days on material that once took at the most 5 hours and if they are trying to fit their research around a day job they find it very difficult to get in at all due to late opening being drastically cut back.
In summary what I am saying is that staff cuts and reduced opening hours will have a drastic affect on the services offered and wait times will greatly increase. Very sad and frustrating to see this happen.
Simon
In summary what I am saying is that staff cuts and reduced opening hours will have a drastic affect on the services offered and wait times will greatly increase. Very sad and frustrating to see this happen.
Simon
NORTHFIELD
master brummie
Very sad yes. But the cuts to the elderly and vulnerable have bigger consequences.
NORTHFIELD
master brummie
I didn't say priority. I'm pointing out the cuts are across the board. If the library wins their fight it will take the budget from the vulnerable
NORTHFIELD
master brummie
Books, I've always loved books. But now my husbands care is going to be cut. Don't care so much about books
for those of who may have missed carl chinns letter in last nights evening mail regarding the proposed library cuts here is it and well said carl...
Dear Editor
Rightfully many Birmingham people have been angered and dismayed at the proposed plans by the Council to drastically cut both the numbers of staff and the opening hours at the Library of Birmingham. The strength of feeling about this pressing issue was reflected on Wednesday night when over 200 people attended a public meeting called by the Friends of Birmingham Archives & Heritage.
All those present agreed that the proposals for the loss of jobs of 100 skilled and dedicated librarians and archivists would badly damage Birmingham’s reputation as a major centre of local, regional, national and international archives and, indeed, of learning. Moreover the shorter opening hours would adversely affect the opportunities for the citizens of our city, most especially the families of working-class Brummies, to access the Library and its facilities.
At the end of that meeting, I proposed the motion ‘that this meeting expresses unanimously its solidarity with the librarians and the archivists of the Library of Birmingham’. It was passed unanimously. Consequently I would urge the people of Birmingham to join me and many others in supporting the Friends of the Library of Birmingham (FoLoB) and Friends of Birmingham Archive & Heritage (FoBAH) in campaigning against the Council’s plans.
A City is not merely a physical place, it is a place where the mind and the soul should be nurtured and nourished as much as the body. Libraries are vital to that process of enlightenment. And as an iconic centre of learning, the Library of Birmingham – along with our community libraries - should be open and accessible morning, noon and night.
Professor Carl Chinn MBE
Dear Editor
Rightfully many Birmingham people have been angered and dismayed at the proposed plans by the Council to drastically cut both the numbers of staff and the opening hours at the Library of Birmingham. The strength of feeling about this pressing issue was reflected on Wednesday night when over 200 people attended a public meeting called by the Friends of Birmingham Archives & Heritage.
All those present agreed that the proposals for the loss of jobs of 100 skilled and dedicated librarians and archivists would badly damage Birmingham’s reputation as a major centre of local, regional, national and international archives and, indeed, of learning. Moreover the shorter opening hours would adversely affect the opportunities for the citizens of our city, most especially the families of working-class Brummies, to access the Library and its facilities.
At the end of that meeting, I proposed the motion ‘that this meeting expresses unanimously its solidarity with the librarians and the archivists of the Library of Birmingham’. It was passed unanimously. Consequently I would urge the people of Birmingham to join me and many others in supporting the Friends of the Library of Birmingham (FoLoB) and Friends of Birmingham Archive & Heritage (FoBAH) in campaigning against the Council’s plans.
A City is not merely a physical place, it is a place where the mind and the soul should be nurtured and nourished as much as the body. Libraries are vital to that process of enlightenment. And as an iconic centre of learning, the Library of Birmingham – along with our community libraries - should be open and accessible morning, noon and night.
Professor Carl Chinn MBE
sospiri
GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN
Devonjim:
Registering libraries as charitable companies still leaves the difficulties of finding adequate finance and may even aggravate it. Councils would no longer be obliged to provide finance, so where is the money going to come from? The majority of libraries no longer have to provide a reference section, a lending section, and possibly a record office/archive (as in the case of the Library of Birmingham), but also a huge internet cafe (for want of a better expression).
The larger the library, the bigger the costs. In the "good old days", i.e. pre-internet, businesses could perhaps be persuaded to finance the reference section, but that is certainly not the case today. They can find most of the information they want from the internet & subscriptions, whereas previosuly they used libraries and that now defunct, but excellent government body, the Export Department of the Board of Trade.
I would like to see a breakdown of who uses the lending library - largely fiction, I suspect, and predominantly the elderly and youngsters, but I could be wrong. The domain of the record offices is very very slowly being digitised by private companies such as Ancestry, FindMyPast, & Google and made available on a subscription basis. I have no problem with that as those that use it pay for it. The staff of the record offices see it somewhat differently as their jobs are slowly disappearing and they have made that plain in meetings with FreeReg.
That leaves the "internet cafe", and as both central and local government bodies are putting more of their interface with the public online, central government has an obligation to to provide access to people who don't have or choose not to have personal computers of some form or another. But I see many of the computer terminals in public libraries being used by out-of-work teens to access Facebook and other social media. Should local government really have an obligation to provide this sort of entertainment?
To sum up, I don't see the formation of charitable companies solving the all important problem of finance.
Maurice
Registering libraries as charitable companies still leaves the difficulties of finding adequate finance and may even aggravate it. Councils would no longer be obliged to provide finance, so where is the money going to come from? The majority of libraries no longer have to provide a reference section, a lending section, and possibly a record office/archive (as in the case of the Library of Birmingham), but also a huge internet cafe (for want of a better expression).
The larger the library, the bigger the costs. In the "good old days", i.e. pre-internet, businesses could perhaps be persuaded to finance the reference section, but that is certainly not the case today. They can find most of the information they want from the internet & subscriptions, whereas previosuly they used libraries and that now defunct, but excellent government body, the Export Department of the Board of Trade.
I would like to see a breakdown of who uses the lending library - largely fiction, I suspect, and predominantly the elderly and youngsters, but I could be wrong. The domain of the record offices is very very slowly being digitised by private companies such as Ancestry, FindMyPast, & Google and made available on a subscription basis. I have no problem with that as those that use it pay for it. The staff of the record offices see it somewhat differently as their jobs are slowly disappearing and they have made that plain in meetings with FreeReg.
That leaves the "internet cafe", and as both central and local government bodies are putting more of their interface with the public online, central government has an obligation to to provide access to people who don't have or choose not to have personal computers of some form or another. But I see many of the computer terminals in public libraries being used by out-of-work teens to access Facebook and other social media. Should local government really have an obligation to provide this sort of entertainment?
To sum up, I don't see the formation of charitable companies solving the all important problem of finance.
Maurice
There's no getting away from it that the role of libraries is changing and I do wonder if the Council/LoB did it's sums properly before the place was built. (Maybe the building itself and the image it was trying to create overtook the more practical issues of usage, audience and ongoing funding).
But that said surely there's never been - and continues to be - a much greater use of archive material than ever before. Whilst other services might drop off due to internet use, I'd expect the one place where library business is still fairly brisk and is likely to increase is in original archive material. Let's think about how the archives are being used. At a basic level many more people, especially the massive ageing population, have the time to explore the archives and are digging into records for genealogy, family history research etc. Building projects, area developments, demographic and archaeological research all require archived background material to name a few. The library has an important teaching role too. Are they doing enough on that front? Are the many local university's and schools all fully on board re. sharing resources, secondments, activities etc? How are the various local heritage interests involved? And, if I remember correctly, one of the reasons given for building a new library was to house the valued archive collection. If it was so important when it was built, why isn't it now? What's the point of almost mothballing it in this way when it's recognised as having a valuable collection? What is the library itself proactively doing to bring people in?
I accept money's tight but the one thing Council's seem incapable of doing is looking closely at how a resource can be made to work more effectively, relevantly and sustainably. Don't just slash budgets, look at the future and how this resource can be made to work for the benefit of as wide an audience as possible. I assume the Council was able to find the money for expensive consultants to do the pre-building assessment, so don't they have a responsibility to explain themselves? Otherwise the Council will have one very big, embarrassing, white elephant on its hands. Now they wouldn't want that would they? Viv.
But that said surely there's never been - and continues to be - a much greater use of archive material than ever before. Whilst other services might drop off due to internet use, I'd expect the one place where library business is still fairly brisk and is likely to increase is in original archive material. Let's think about how the archives are being used. At a basic level many more people, especially the massive ageing population, have the time to explore the archives and are digging into records for genealogy, family history research etc. Building projects, area developments, demographic and archaeological research all require archived background material to name a few. The library has an important teaching role too. Are they doing enough on that front? Are the many local university's and schools all fully on board re. sharing resources, secondments, activities etc? How are the various local heritage interests involved? And, if I remember correctly, one of the reasons given for building a new library was to house the valued archive collection. If it was so important when it was built, why isn't it now? What's the point of almost mothballing it in this way when it's recognised as having a valuable collection? What is the library itself proactively doing to bring people in?
I accept money's tight but the one thing Council's seem incapable of doing is looking closely at how a resource can be made to work more effectively, relevantly and sustainably. Don't just slash budgets, look at the future and how this resource can be made to work for the benefit of as wide an audience as possible. I assume the Council was able to find the money for expensive consultants to do the pre-building assessment, so don't they have a responsibility to explain themselves? Otherwise the Council will have one very big, embarrassing, white elephant on its hands. Now they wouldn't want that would they? Viv.
Concern expressed beyond Birmingham re. future of archives in this Times newspaper letters page cutting of 8 Jan 2015. Good to see support from interests outside Birmingham and emphasis on international importance of archives. Highlights the work held at the Library of early pioneers of photography and makes a plea for Government to step in if B'ham CC can't support this important resource. Viv.
farmerdave
master brummie
Hi Vivienne. Reference to this letter was also made in #234. Dave.
Hi Dave. Missed that one. Apologies. Viv.
NORTHFIELD
master brummie
Birmingham Council have to pay out over one billion pounds, because of the equal pay dispute, and that has to come from somewhere. We pay our council tax to Birmingham, and have had numerous letters about the difficult cuts. In my opinion, this new library, should never have been built. Not yet anyway. The last one only had a life of 40 years.They should have made use of that awful building for a lot longer. They have sold off the NEC. More school playing fields are going, local libraries going, swimming pools, ring and ride under threat, and adults and communities is being cut by 80 million, and this will add to 'bed blocking'. If the money isn't there, it isn't there.
cookie273uk
master brummie
when I was young the 'free' branch library had one simple function, to loan/lend books for a limited period to the general public. Now they have branched out into archives, internet, PC's etc all requiring extra funding and staff. WHY ???. Reading is one of my favourite pastimes (always has been) both fiction and non fiction and am a frequent visitor to Chelmsley Wood library who have an excellent choice of books. Sadly I appear to be in the minority in the book section but the PC's are all in use. Sign of the time mores the pity. Eric
Hi guys
I think its sad to hear about the library going to be sliced in hours and the disposal of other libarys around brum and the cost cutting source
It appears to be said yet out in Bromsgrove they are building a brand new one from scratch along with a new council house
Which is funded by govermen and they done away with the old originale market hall demolished it and said they was replacing it
With a cinema for all ages some think weren't wrong the land is empty now along the red they are building these two joint building
Ajoing each other on the same land ajoing complex the mind boggles in my opinion you cannot blame the city council for saying
For saying the reason its equal rights pay sector they was loosing money before that I can tell you,
Best wishes Astonian,,,,
I think its sad to hear about the library going to be sliced in hours and the disposal of other libarys around brum and the cost cutting source
It appears to be said yet out in Bromsgrove they are building a brand new one from scratch along with a new council house
Which is funded by govermen and they done away with the old originale market hall demolished it and said they was replacing it
With a cinema for all ages some think weren't wrong the land is empty now along the red they are building these two joint building
Ajoing each other on the same land ajoing complex the mind boggles in my opinion you cannot blame the city council for saying
For saying the reason its equal rights pay sector they was loosing money before that I can tell you,
Best wishes Astonian,,,,
What a disgrace to sell our library and even charge and to say the NEC ain't paying
Lest face the council have ordered that many building to build now they have to find the costing to pay for it
Well that's my opinion like one or two people involved with the forum I have watch what I say
But wed do have freedom of speech no think personal on my behalf towards any member of the forum nor council members
I would like to see what or members views are it sure there no other library in the land as to pay to join ,,, best wishes Astonian,,,,
Lest face the council have ordered that many building to build now they have to find the costing to pay for it
Well that's my opinion like one or two people involved with the forum I have watch what I say
But wed do have freedom of speech no think personal on my behalf towards any member of the forum nor council members
I would like to see what or members views are it sure there no other library in the land as to pay to join ,,, best wishes Astonian,,,,
W
Wendy
Guest
Can I remind people we are primarily a History Forum. Please don't speculate on here thank you.
This is a general discussion thread and general discussion is going to include a lot of things that don't relate to history. Once you step outside the core discussion of the forum, you'll need to make specific rules and tell everyone. If some subjects are outside what is allowable, it should be in the rules.
As far as I can tell, the new Birmingham Library was built because the old one was running out of space, especially with the archives which now have three floors of material some of which is unavailable and most only available on request. Archive material isn't outside usual library content, public records have been served that way for a long time. The expansion at Birmingham has come through new history projects creating lots of material and wanting somewhere to put it because they no longer have the space (if they ever did). The indexing on these archives is often inadequate or non-existent meaning no-one is ever going to find anything in them and certainly not through the desk access system. Given how a lot of the material was acquired (effectively dumped in the library by an outside group) there's often no budget to preserve it. I know of one photographic archive that has developed a fungus that would need treatment that the library couldn't afford even before the cuts and had to be sealed. Some of this would be better farmed out to interested organisations with more ability to restore and preserve. If they were interested enough they might even pay for the privilege.
There are a lot of things about the new library that were intended to make money and probably haven't. They have meeting rooms for lectures and businesses (even a business centre) but there's no plan of where they are and some of them went unknown (and unused) for months. Since some people here seem to regard the archive as outside the normal purview of a free library, maybe they could charge for access to that. Not necessarily to individuals who want one-off access but to organisations that want special access for lecturers/students or people with regular requests.
Some things they probably can't charge for like access to the library/books and, probably, the computers (part of one of those old initiatives to provide internet access to all). Other things like exhibitions and events they already charge for if they think people will pay.
B
BernardR
Guest
Wam your response is an example of what we need in this thread. Sadly and what I believe Wendy was referring to, was the wild speculation much of it not backed by fact. I don't believe we need a new set of rules (many don't read the ones we already have).
There was mention above of the NEC and whether it makes money. Whether it does or does not is not why the council have sold it as I understand the situation. The NEC group sale was an opportunity for the council to bring some money in and also the sale means that the council will not have to fund any future developments that the NEC group will require to stay competitive. The aim was not in my opinion (sorry Wendy) to stifle debate rather than to keep it focussed on facts.
BernardR
There was mention above of the NEC and whether it makes money. Whether it does or does not is not why the council have sold it as I understand the situation. The NEC group sale was an opportunity for the council to bring some money in and also the sale means that the council will not have to fund any future developments that the NEC group will require to stay competitive. The aim was not in my opinion (sorry Wendy) to stifle debate rather than to keep it focussed on facts.
BernardR
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