• Welcome to this forum . We are a worldwide group with a common interest in Birmingham and its history. While here, please follow a few simple rules. We ask that you respect other members, thank those who have helped you and please keep your contributions on-topic with the thread.

    We do hope you enjoy your visit. BHF Admin Team
  • HI folks the server that hosts the site completely died including the Hdd's and backups.
    Luckily i create an offsite backup once a week! this has now been restored so we have lost a few days posts.
    im still fixing things at the moment so bear with me and im still working on all images 90% are fine the others im working on now
    we are now using a backup solution

Help please - Rachel Box (Cook) b 1861, d ?

C

CVL

Brummie babby
Hello, I would like to please request some help locating information about what happened to my great great grandmother after 1895. Rachel Cook was born in 1862 (father William Cook) and married my great great grandfather Charles Box on 22 Aug 1881. They lived on Brass St (Warwickshire, Birmingham, St Stephens Parish) according to the 1891 census with 9 yr old son William Box. According to family letters in 1895, Charles died of consumption in the workhouse. We believe we have located his burial record at Witton Cemetery Feb 1895. Records indicate that William was placed with Middlemore Homes as he was "running with a rough crowd" and his mother Rachel had been turned down for relief by the parish due to a previous request for assistance. Rachel also indicated that she had a baby. We believe we have located a burial record for baby boy Edwin at Witton Cemetery June 1895. Willian was sent to Canada as a British Home Child in 1896. Records indicate that he was 15 (however we believe he may have been 14). Rachel wrote to William a couple of times when he was in Canada but I am unsure when this occurred. I'm a fairly new researcher but I have spent many hours searching and I am unable to find out what happened to Rachel after 1891 - I've tried searching marriage, death and census records using Rachel Box and Rachel Cook. We would like to find out if Rachel remarried or had more children and when she died and where she is buried. I would really appreciate any help solving this last mystery. Thank you in advance! Carrie
 
Last edited:
hello carrie and welcome....i am sure some of our members will be happy to help you with this mystery so dont give up...i take it you have rachels marriage certificate?

lyn
 
  • Appreciate
Reactions: CVL
i have only had a quick look for now but so far i cant find rachel after the 1891...it is doubtful but i wonder if she went to canada in search of son william...very sad story as in such a short space of time rachel lost her husband charles..son william sent to canada and the death of a baby son..no doubt she would have been at the end of her tether...

lyn
 
Last edited:
  • Appreciate
Reactions: CVL
Thank you so much for your welcome and assistance Lyn! Yes, it was a very sad story. Unfortunately, my great grandfather William also had his share of tragedy. He eventually married and moved from Nova Scotia to Ontario. They lost a daughter Florence as a baby to choking. They had two sons as well and lastly my grandmother Nellie was born. However, her mother (William's wife) died shortly after childbirth due to the pandemic. William gave Nellie to a neighbour to be babysat while he went to work and the neighbour abducted her. My grandmother Nellie had a difficult upbringing in the home of this older woman who refused to provide her with any information about her family of origin or even her birth date. Grandma Nellie finally found her father and brothers twenty years later as a married woman with a small child of her own. William lost his parents, sibling, wife and daughters. He is said to have never gotten over the loss of his family and refused to speak about his past. He has been described as a difficult man and what little we have learned about his past has been through research. I did a quick look for any trace of Rachel Box in Canadian 1901 Census record but came up empty. I did see William's record though with the family he was placed with - https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?app=Census1901&op=img&id=z000040837
 
how sad carrie but i am sure other members will come along to help you try and fine rachel after the 1891 census...fingers crossed...we have a thread for brass st with lots of photos..click on link below

Brass Street (previously Pumphrey Street)

This is not so much a look-up request as a plea for suggestions/advice regarding the 1841 Census in Brum. I have been researching one of several Brummie family lines, the HUTCHINSONs. (Note: I made a previous posting about them having found my 3xG Grandmother Elizabeth HUTCHINSON's death in a...
birminghamhistory.co.uk birminghamhistory.co.uk


lyn
 
  • Appreciate
Reactions: CVL
carrie as you know young william was at no 7 brass st aged 9 on the 1891 census...this photo could well have been taken around the years he was living there...no 7 would be the second door from the left of this photo and for all we know william could be among that litte group on the left...the photo shows number 6.7.10 and 11

lyn

brass st showing 6.7.10 and 11.jpeg
 
How very neat, Lyn! This is so exciting to see. Imagine if it were him!! Thanks so much for showing me this. My mom and dad will get quite the kick out of it.
 
happy to help carrie and you can also show your mom and dad the other photos of brass st which leave us in no doubt that this was a very poor area to live .. living conditions was awful and crime was high...my own ancestors also come from around there...i suspect that they had a tidy up of the street knowing that a photographer was in the area

lyn
 
Last edited:
  • Appreciate
Reactions: CVL
William Box 1950.jpgYes, I bet. have no doubt that Rachel feared for her son and thought she was saving William from a life of struggle by sending him to Canada. And that one decision, resulted in generations of ancestors now in Ontario. Sometimes we wonder though if we are missing family back in England though. This is the only picture I have of William taken in 1950. Very late here now so I must head to bed but I'm sure I will be dreaming of Brass Street and look forward to continuing the conversation tomorrow. Thank you!
 
thanks for the photo of william its always nice to put a face to the name...i am quite certain that you have family here in england and who knows some of them could well read this thread and make a connection to you...this has happened many times on this forum but for now you are so lucky to have a photo of williams house in brass st but now we need to find out what happened to rachel.....talk soon

lyn
 
  • Appreciate
Reactions: CVL
you have most likely got rachel on the 1881 census living at no 56 harding st (round about 1885 it changed its name and became moorsom st ) which was next to brass st...if you look at the entire page it also shows the box family living at no 57 including charles who was soon to become rachels husband ..in case you dont have here it is...i would just like to say that it is no wonder william did not want to talk about his life...one can only imagine how he felt losing his dad at a young age then being torn from his mom because through no fault of her own she just did not have the means to support or look after him and most likely struggled to look after herself and it looks like she lost her mom in 1887...he must have felt so scared and confused during that long crossing over to canada...not knowing what the future held for him as many other middlemore children sent abroad must have felt...sad to say this was a sign of the times and we have read many stories such as williams but as i said earlier we really need to try and find rachel after the 1891 census and hope that we find things ended up ok for her

WARRG11_2995_2998-0157.jpg
 
Last edited:
William Charles was registered Sep qtr 1882 and Edwin Bertram Mar qtr 1895.

It also appears that they had more children - Annie Elizabeth b1884 d1885, Ethel May 1886 d1887 and Charles Henry b1888 d1889.
 
Haven't found Rachel yet but interestingly (and you may already know) it appears at least one of her nephews (Benjamin Houghton) emigrated to Canada.
 
  • Appreciate
Reactions: CVL
Drawn a bit of a blank so far. Checked her brother and half siblings for clue but nothing there.

What date were the letters sent and was there address?
 
  • Appreciate
Reactions: CVL
There is a Rachel Wright of the right age in Aston with 2 daughters on the 1911 census.

The father of the youngest (Gladys) is an Alfred Philip Wright. He dies in 1903.

There doesn't appear to be a marriage for Alfred Philip Wright to a Rachel - Box, Cook or other.

However, it is possible/probable that the Rachel is actually a Rachel Edwards. She's born 1864 but I can find no trace of her after that though.
 
  • Appreciate
Reactions: CVL
I've been trying to trace Rachel Edwards to confirm it's her or rule her out but just can't see her at all - no marriage, no death, no census. Nor a possible registration for her other daughter.

It still seems likely that it is her rather than Rachel Cook but the Rachel Wright in 1911 was all I could see.
 
i noticed on rachels marr cert that she has put father down as william cook brassfounder but hes not down as deceased..i guess its not that important but on the 71 rachels mom is down as a widow this is assuming i have the correct 71 census...

lyn
 
Looks like the correct census to me, Mary (Houghton) is Hepzibah's daughter from her first marriage and be a great coincidence that Charles Box was living next to a girl with the same name as his future wife.

Don't always see deceased next to fathers on marriages when they are.
 
MWS said:
I've been trying to trace Rachel Edwards to confirm it's her or rule her out but just can't see her at all - no marriage, no death, no census. Nor a possible registration for her other daughter.

It still seems likely that it is her rather than Rachel Cook but the Rachel Wright in 1911 was all I could see.
Click to expand...
I think Rachel Edwards became Rachel Speed (1901 census) and the daughter called May Lilian has birth registered as May Lilian Speed with mmn Edwards. Not sure if she married Mr Speed or not.
 
MWS said:
Looks like the correct census to me, Mary (Houghton) is Hepzibah's daughter from her first marriage and be a great coincidence that Charles Box was living next to a girl with the same name as his future wife.

Don't always see deceased next to fathers on marriages when they are.
Click to expand...
i agree mark....on the 71 living in garbett st ladywood hepzibah cook is a coal yard minder but ive never seen this written on a census before..."living in a coal shed 8ft by 10ft occupied by 4 people" 1 being young rachel aged 9... i really shudder to think what conditions they were all living in

lyn
 
Back for more coincidences.

Interesting to read what Lyn said about Harding St (Rachel Cook's residence in 1871) becoming Moorsom St because strangely enough Rachel Speed (nee Edwards) is living on Moorsom St in 1901.
 
yes back to trying to find rachel after the 1891 census...thinking out loud we have to consider that maybe after her husbands death and son william being sent to canada in the the mid 1890s rachel may have taken up with someone else took his name as a married couple athough not marrying and died under that assumed name....it did happen in which case we have no chance of finding her...im not giving up just yet though

lyn
 
Thanks Lyn! Yes, I have seen the 1881 census. It makes me smile - he literally married Rachel, the girl next door. Maybe that was a happy hopeful time for them.
 
Thanks for your help as well MWS and pjmburns. I didn't know about the other children. I noticed the Houghton family but didn't think to try to trace any of them. My mom sent for his Middlemore records. That is how we know that Rachel wrote to Mrs Isenor in Nova Scotia inquiring about William. I will have to check with mom to see if the letters had any return addresses or dates on them.
 
"Living in garbett st ladywood hepzibah cook is a coal yard minder but ive never seen this written on a census before..."living in a coal shed 8ft by 10ft occupied by 4 people" 1 being young rachel aged 9... i really shudder to think what conditions they were all living in" Wow! I can't even imagine. That must have weighed on her mind when she thought about trying to give William a better life.
 
CVL said:
Thanks for your help as well MWS and pjmburns. I didn't know about the other children. I noticed the Houghton family but didn't think to try to trace any of them. My mom sent for his Middlemore records. That is how we know that Rachel wrote to Mrs Isenor in Nova Scotia inquiring about William. I will have to check with mom to see if the letters had any return addresses or dates on them.
Click to expand...
hi carrie yes it may prove useful if you could find out if rachel left a forwarding address on those letters she sent to mrs isenor and the dates if possible...

this is just an observation but on rachels marriage cert 1881 a john houghton is one of the witnesses the other is rachels mom.... i also noticed that rachel could not read and write so could not sign her own name on the cert so maybe she got someone else to write those letters to mrs isenor on her behalf or of course she may have learned to read and write after she married....

lyn
 
I've been looking at a Rachel Smith on the 1911 census, who is living with a husband, a son and 2 others in Bham.

Age is ok and there appears to be no marriage to match the date given on the 1911 census. Proving or disproving that it is the correct Rachel though would seem to be extremely difficult, not only is it Smith but her 'husband' only seems to appear on the 1911 census, at least under the name Donald.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top