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Gertrude Cummings/Brayne/Brain

Vixen

Vixen

master brummie
Hi All Was hoping someone may be able to assist. My great Grandmother was Gertrude Cummings who married William Swinden. This I know as fact. My grandmother was Vera Swinden whose dad was Willliam Swinden. Her mother Gertrude has proved quite difficult to nail down and there are various trees on an ancestry site who think her mother was Hannah Warrington, Hannah Page etc. However, Hannah Page married James Cummings and on Gertrudes wedding bans, her dad is named as John Cummings. Gertrude had a brother John Cummings who lives with her on the 1939 Census. They are living at 187 Finchley Road, Birmingham. John is two years difference in age to Gertrude, being younger. Hannah Page and James Cummings did not have a son called John.

I have discovered I have DNA matches with people with the Brayne Family or at least this is what the DNA matches on the ancestry site are showing. A Gertrude Brayne/Brain was born to a Fanny Brayne/Brain born around 1860 and fanny was married to a John Cummings (Born abt 1862) tho I cant find a marriage record presently but on the census for 1891 it says she is married. Fanny died in 1894 and on the 1901 census, Gertrude can be found with John her dad, John her brother and Amelia and Emily. Fanny is not there and John is widowed. Emily was born Brayne as was Gertrude whereas John and Amelia were born Cummings. To clear up any confusion I was wondering if anyone had a birth certificate for Gertrude or could double check the info I have.

The one main area I am confused on is Gertrudes age/date of birth and birth registration. On the 1939 Census she has her birth down as 1st Jan 1888 but on the 1891 census Gertrude is down as being 11mths old. This is confusing me as to why her birthday would be down as 1st Jan 1888. If anyone could help unravel this for me and to ID that John and Fanny are definitely her parents I would be grateful. On her wedding bans to William her dad is named as John Cummings, not a James Cummings. I think Im just so confused as to why so many trees have her parents as Hannah and James who did not have a son called John Cummings and Gertrude definitely had a brother John
 
First of all - dates of birth back in the 1890s were not as imprrtant as they are now. So eople often did not really know how old they were or what year they were born.
So stating 1888 on the 1939 reg would not surprise me for someone actually born in 1891. (My own gran had her age on her gravestone as 80 a fact believed by her daughters but I now know she was actually 78 when she died :D ).
The birth is actually registered in the second quarter of 1890 with no mmn - I expect you know that.

Many women called themselves married when they weren't or sometimes claimed to be widows when they had never married.
 
I can see why people think she was the daughter of James and Hannah - that is the link which comes up on Ancestry for Gertrude.
The link to John does not show up clearly.
 
Don't think she's the daughter of James and Hannah as that Gertrude is in Lancashire in 1911with parents, while the daughter of John is still in Bham.
 
I would say that she is probably the illegitimate daughter of Fanny Brayne as you mentioned.

In 1891 John Cummins is a wire drawer and living on Queens Road and in 1901 he is still a wire drawer living on Queens Road. Too much of a coincidence to be anything else.
 
MWS said:
I would say that she is probably the illegitimate daughter of Fanny Brayne as you mentioned.

In 1891 John Cummins is a wire drawer and living on Queens Road and in 1901 he is still a wire drawer living on Queens Road. Too much of a coincidence to be anything else.
Click to expand...
Thank you, yes I noticed his profession too. It has been difficult ID'ing John Cummings parentage but I believe his parents are John Cummings and Mary Keefe. I cant seem to find much out about John Cummings senior (his dad)

There is no mention of a james cummings and I did check what children Hannah and James had, but there is no son called John. Also the fact that DNA matches come up linking me to Braynes, I think most likely everyone here has kind of confirmed what I had found out so far. Thank you
 
pjmburns said:
I can see why people think she was the daughter of James and Hannah - that is the link which comes up on Ancestry for Gertrude.
The link to John does not show up clearly.
Click to expand...
I agree far more info came up for James and Hannah but going on the records eg Her dad being John on her marriage bans and having a brother John who is then found in 1901 with Dad John, I think perhaps those who have gone down the James Cumming route have perhaps got their trees wrong. I made contact with a number of people who had done that and no one had any proof or birth certification for their findings. Most had just copied other peoples trees which I avoid doing
 
pjmburns said:
First of all - dates of birth back in the 1890s were not as imprrtant as they are now. So eople often did not really know how old they were or what year they were born.
So stating 1888 on the 1939 reg would not surprise me for someone actually born in 1891. (My own gran had her age on her gravestone as 80 a fact believed by her daughters but I now know she was actually 78 when she died :D ).
The birth is actually registered in the second quarter of 1890 with no mmn - I expect you know that.

Many women called themselves married when they weren't or sometimes claimed to be widows when they had never married.
Click to expand...
I agree with the thing about dates of birth etc. I have found a number of discrepancies in the records, with individuals ages ranging by quite a number of years
 
pjmburns said:
First of all - dates of birth back in the 1890s were not as imprrtant as they are now. So eople often did not really know how old they were or what year they were born.
So stating 1888 on the 1939 reg would not surprise me for someone actually born in 1891. (My own gran had her age on her gravestone as 80 a fact believed by her daughters but I now know she was actually 78 when she died :D ).
The birth is actually registered in the second quarter of 1890 with no mmn - I expect you know that.

Many women called themselves married when they weren't or sometimes claimed to be widows when they had never married.
Click to expand...
Yes, but thank you. Thats why I was getting so confused because her date of birth on the 1939 census was two years earlier to her birth reg.
 
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